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Uber broke laws, duped police and built lobbying operation, leak reveals

965 点作者 colin_jack将近 3 年前

62 条评论

AnotherGoodName将近 3 年前
Still a million times better than what it replaced. About 20 years ago I was working with the Australian taxi cab industry. The hq of the regulatory authority shared the address of the main payment system. The regulatory authority was made up of representatives of each taxi cab company that each had one vote. There was one taxi company (the one that controlled the payment system allowed) with 200+ subsidiaries that made up that organization. If anyone tried to get into the taxi industry they'd use their 200 votes to say they are not allowed by regulations. This was a company making 2billion a year in one state of Australia alone (NSW). It was so incredibly fucking corrupt and i am thankful to Uber Lyft and all the other incumbents for managing to get their foot in. It required dirty dealing to get past this corruption.
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stef25将近 3 年前
Uber isn&#x27;t the most ethical company for sure but here in Brussels the taxi industry is pretty shady as well.<p>Getting a taxi license costs an exorbitant amount of money and it&#x27;s done through all kinds of dodgy deals.<p>There&#x27;s 1-2 companies that have a monopoly on the whole industry.<p>There&#x27;s weird rules about which types of taxis can &quot;serve&quot; the airport, akin to what mobsters are responsible for collecting trash in what areas.<p>You&#x27;ll often get &quot;sorry the payment terminal is out of order, cash only&quot; BS.<p>A study a few years ago showed the main taxi company, according to their tax documents, earned a ridiculously low amount of money per day (= obvious dodging of taxes).<p>They clearly refused to innovate for years. When you called their number you&#x27;d get some unintelligible voice on the other end that would give you about 10 sec to state your details before they&#x27;d clearly run out of patience.<p>You could only request pickups at specific addresses that would then be connected to your phone number &#x2F; profile. So &quot;pick me up on this street corner&quot; was impossible.<p>The last time we called one for a ride to the airport they didn&#x27;t show up at the agreed time so we got an Uber. Taxi company called us many times screaming insults down the phone, followed by an offensive email with an invitation to pay and threats of small claims courts.<p>In light of all that, I have zero problems with someone else moving in fast to break things.
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speeder将近 3 年前
I actually joined a political party in my country, because they had the intention of protecting Uber.<p>Some people wonder, but why? Why protect such scummy company?<p>Well, it was literally to save lives, as much illegal Uber behaviour is, what they were trying to replace was worse, MUCH worse.<p>Where I live &quot;Taxi Mafia&quot; was a thing, not just in the usual sense people imagine, like blocking competitors using regulations, but people were murdering others, there were beatings, assassinations, theft, high level government corruption, the Taxi Mafia was evil and destructive as any other &quot;&lt;drugs&#x2F;guns&#x2F;slavery&gt; Mafia&quot; you can imagine.<p>A lot of people claim Uber is evil because they say their workers are contractors and not employees. Well, before Uber if you wanted to be a driver, you had to purchase your own car, open your own company, and then give 50k USD to the local mafia boss, and promise to join combat whenever called. Combat? Yes, combat, gathering up drivers to kill a competitor was a thing, one infamous case for example: out of town driver parked near airport to deliver someone, a client in a hurry got on his cab as the other client was leaving, the local mafia didn&#x27;t like this happened, so they surrounded the car and invited the driver for a &quot;walk&quot;, took him under a nearby bridge, and they all kicked him until he was a mangled mess, and then they kicked him some more to make sure he was dead.
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Nextgrid将近 3 年前
Regardless of what you think about the company or their products, letting them get away with this sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Whether you agree with the specific laws they’ve broken, the precedent would allow companies to break other laws you might agree with more (and do more damage as a result).
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ethbr0将近 3 年前
When you have a massive leak of pervasive illegal behavior throughout the company, from the CEO down, and your response is...<p>&gt;&gt; <i>&quot;Kalanick’s spokesperson said Uber’s expansion initiatives were “led by over a hundred leaders in dozens of countries around the world and at all times under the direct oversight and with the full approval of Uber’s robust legal, policy and compliance groups”.&quot;</i><p>... I don&#x27;t think that messages what Kalanick’s spokesperson thinks it messages.
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javajosh将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t think &quot;they broke the law&quot; has the same weight it used to. The American justice system has been so entirely captured by capital that such an accusation merely tells me that one of Uber&#x27;s enemies spent real money on a PR firm.<p>Plus, the laws they broke are ones that almost no-one except taxi companies (and perhaps city tax officials) care about.
Entinel将近 3 年前
There are some particularly bad things here like<p>&gt; Warned that doing so risked putting Uber drivers at risk of attacks from “extreme right thugs” who had infiltrated the taxi protests and were “spoiling for a fight”, Kalanick appeared to urge his team to press ahead regardless. “I think it’s worth it,” he said. “Violence guarantee[s] success. And these guys must be resisted, no? Agreed that right place and time must be thought out.”<p>However, this is how all &quot;unicorn&quot; startups operate. Break the law until they get caught and pay a small fine. Uber will get away with this and people will continue to use Uber.
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photochemsyn将近 3 年前
Interesting reporting about behavior that goes somewhat beyond business-as-usual for corporate lobbying efforts (not a justification, just a note that these kinds of tactics are relatively common and this report is not an extreme outlier, compared to pharmaceutical lobbying for example).<p>However, it&#x27;s curious that there&#x27;s no mention of Uber&#x27;s largest backer, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which put an unprecedented $3.5 billion into Uber (initially, that may not be all). All the article mentions is this:<p>&gt; &quot;From Moscow to Johannesburg, bankrolled with unprecedented venture capital funding, Uber heavily subsidised journeys, seducing drivers and passengers on to the app with incentives and pricing models that would not be sustainable.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thestreet.com&#x2F;investing&#x2F;how-much-of-uber-does-saudi-arabia-own-15162803" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thestreet.com&#x2F;investing&#x2F;how-much-of-uber-does-sa...</a><p>Uber&#x27;s relationship with Saudi Arabia certainly deserves some mention:<p>&gt; &quot;In the interview with the digital news platform, Khosrowshahi said the 2019 murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi shows that &quot;the (Saudi) government said they made a mistake. It&#x27;s a serious mistake, but we&#x27;ve made serious mistakes, too right?&quot;&quot;
NelsonMinar将近 3 年前
FWIW this is about the company&#x27;s founding DNA: &quot;The leak spans a five-year period when Uber was run by its co-founder Travis Kalanick&quot;.
aftergibson将近 3 年前
I see this is hitting the front page of the guardian with that heavy hitting colour scheme but reading through the articles I feel a big… so what? Maybe I’m just apathetic but it feels like a company that’s fought to exist in a world of crappy, shady incumbents and made life meaningfully better for a lot of people.<p>I’m skeptical of a lot of technology and generally would prefer that status quo for a lot of things but this feels like a storm in a teacup for what is a pretty decent product disrupting an industry that deserved disruption, I’m almost hope Uber provides an example of how this can be done for other industries.
dnissley将近 3 年前
The laws being broken were clearly unjust and Uber committed civil disobedience (in the American tradition) by breaking them. That doesn&#x27;t mean every underhanded thing Uber has ever done has been justified, but in this particular instance it seems like it was. No one wants to be sympathetic to a large corporation of course, but that&#x27;s a conversation most people aren&#x27;t willing to have...
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0xmohit将近 3 年前
How Uber Deceives the Authorities Worldwide (2017)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;03&#x2F;technology&#x2F;uber-greyball-program-evade-authorities.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;03&#x2F;technology&#x2F;uber-greyball-...</a>
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Kalanos将近 3 年前
and scheduled me a 5:15am ride at 10pm the night before so i could get to their airport at the click of a button. where else is the driver going to make $25 (guessing their actual profit from $40 ride) in 20min at 5am? it&#x27;s in the best interest of the people and progress. that&#x27;s what the law should be enabling, not defending taxi licenses and unions
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jeffrallen将近 3 年前
Corporations are people, and people can be terminated by the state. Corporate death penalty. Easy.<p>(Except that I agree neither with corporate personhood, nor the death penalty.)
theplumber将近 3 年前
Uber is the best thing that happened to the taxi industry, from client&#x27;s perspective
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nprateem将近 3 年前
And now they enter the &quot;ask for forgiveness&quot; stage, get a slap on the wrist and get to bank their billions.
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oefrha将近 3 年前
Meh, any corp of this caliber lobbies as much as they can. It wouldn’t have succeeded if cabs weren’t so shitty.
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DLA将近 3 年前
I just wonder when companies just stopped caring at all about doing the right thing? Are there any objectively honest big companies out there?<p>- Enron. We all know what happened there.<p>- Facebook. Industrial-scale slimy.<p>- Exxon. Poor Alaska.<p>- BP. OMG poor Gulf Coast.<p>- McKinsey. Here’s how to sell more Fentanyl.<p>- Experian. Let’s lie about that giant data leak.<p>- AIG, Bond rating agencies, Lehman etc. We’re printing money from total crap paper, and we know it, but SHHH the OMG the $$$.<p>- J&amp;J. Talc powder is very bad and we knew it for a long time. - Purdue Pharma. Evil opioid empire.<p>- Bayer. Roundup poison (someone explain why this is still legal to sell anywhere for any purpose).<p>And the list goes on forever! So sad and utterly morally bankrupt.<p>Corporate boards are part of the problem. In so many case are they not doing their oversight job because they are on the take or utterly incompetent or maybe both.<p>&lt;&#x2F;rant&gt; Sorry, this just makes me crazy.
HL33tibCe7将近 3 年前
Really feels like there’s a massive amount of corruption in European politics these days. Especially in the EU.
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entwife将近 3 年前
Uber was better than taxi because it had an app and taxis did not. However, taxis in many cities now have some taxi-hailing app. Once the app became available, I began to prefer taxis over &quot;ride sharing&quot; services like Uber and Lyft.
us0r将近 3 年前
Ugh ICIJ. Cherry picked stories without ability to look through raw files&#x2F;data.
ChrisMarshallNY将近 3 年前
Damn. That’s gonna leave a mark.<p>It’s above the fold, on BBC.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;business-62057321" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;business-62057321</a>
spaceman_2020将近 3 年前
All this effort and legal chicanery just to build a mediocre, unprofitable business.
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wizwit999将近 3 年前
Honestly, I&#x27;m happy they resisted the pressure. Visiting Istanbul, and the taxis suck here (apparently the taxi drivers got Uber banned here)
oriettaxx将近 3 年前
“Sometimes we have problems because, well, we’re just fucking illegal.”
lesstyzing将近 3 年前
The Uber propaganda here in this thread is insane. Taxi’s maybe have been shit but that does not in anyway justify Uber breaking the law to conquer the market (btw, now that they’ve done that, they’ve also turned to shit because it was unsustainable).<p>Perfect may be the enemy of good but we shouldn’t excuse companies using endless VC money and law breaking to achieve something that’s marginally better for consumers.<p>Obviously there are some exceptions to this in the comments but generally, in modern countries where the taxi firms aren’t run by literal mafias and killing people, we should condemn Uber’s behaviour.
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polynomial将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t feel great about taking Uber, but until NYC gets the TV screen out of my face, it&#x27;s a no brainer from a user experience pov.
silveira将近 3 年前
I highly recommend the episode 271- Uber from the podcast The Dollop which goes about the history of Uber.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;podcasts.google.com&#x2F;feed&#x2F;aHR0cHM6Ly90aGVkb2xsb3AubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M&#x2F;episode&#x2F;YzYwMDc1MGM0MDNkNWJjNDU1ZjkwNjI3ZDlkYTEzZmU?ep=14" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;podcasts.google.com&#x2F;feed&#x2F;aHR0cHM6Ly90aGVkb2xsb3AubGl...</a>
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halamadrid将近 3 年前
I can’t imagine a world without Uber. Every city I go to, this or similar apps simply makes my commute easier and better.
ajaimk将近 3 年前
Why is this news? It&#x27;s from 2014... We already knew all this. They even made a TV series about all this.
dayvid将近 3 年前
I went to Vegas earlier this year. The taxis were far better and cheaper than the Uber. Uber&#x27;s are also a lot more expensive now.<p>I think UberPool was going to be Uber&#x27;s killer feature. It made taking Uber&#x27;s more regularly affordable for different groups of people, but COVID sadly ruined it.
goopthink将近 3 年前
… and in retrospect, was it worth it? Or was it a pyrrhic short term victory at a huge expense for something that would have happened eventually anyway but at a slower pace? Was this all just a quest to accelerate the inevitable outside of what overlapping Overton windows allowed for?
elforce002将近 3 年前
God, I love this comment section. Let&#x27;s justify Uber&#x27;s behavior since taxis were&#x2F;are bad.
rob_c将近 3 年前
But don&#x27;t worry they&#x27;re a changed company in the valley now and they&#x27;re so sorry for past behaviour (nothing to do with being caught)... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;15HTd4Um1m4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;15HTd4Um1m4</a>
piyushpr134将近 3 年前
Uber works like a terrorist organization. Their city teams work like terrorist sleeper cells...no office, no call center only email contact. They bribe, they buy, they infiltrate and they have a huge fanatical base who won&#x27;t listen anything against them.
jwilber将近 3 年前
Taxis suck. But Uber sucks now, too.<p>I’d still rather ride share than use a taxi, and use door dash over Uber (lest we forget Uber’s previous lawsuits), but all of the choices in the market are kind of grim.
tapatio将近 3 年前
The new norm: to become a unicorn you have to lie, cheat, and steal.
kurupt213将近 3 年前
I don’t know what’s worse. This, or VW writing software to identify an emissions test was being done and entering a low emissions mode that car never used when under normal operation
ETH_start将近 3 年前
Uber has massively improved taxi services around the world. The labor laws and taxi medallion rackets they circumvented were massive barriers to improving transportation services.
WalterBright将近 3 年前
Laws that enshrine and entrench the taxi monopoly are bad laws.
rmatt2000将近 3 年前
&quot;Behind every great fortune is a great crime.&quot; - Balzac. Was there ever an industry that this quote described more accurately than tech?
jheriko将近 3 年前
this was always obvious to me from day one. i didn&#x27;t need a leak to notice this. it was flagrant and blatant at the time.<p>everyone was so busy being a fanboy it drove me a bit mad... especially operating without licenses and looking as if nobody had done the basic due diligence on what was needed to operate at all.<p>honestly the entire &quot;genius&quot; of the idea itself is &quot;ignore the law and do whatever&quot;
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wolverine876将近 3 年前
&gt; More than 180 journalists at 40 media outlets including Le Monde, Washington Post and the BBC [and the Guardian] will in the coming days publish a series of investigative reports about the tech giant.<p>OT: What happened to the NY Times? They seem to have stopped doing ground-breaking investigations of the powerful, including government. Instead, we get investigations of trends and porn sites. What are they doing? It would be an incredile resource to lose. Seriously, please share the last investigation they did that fits that description?
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yieldcrv将近 3 年前
ITT: How Softbank and A16z broke up regional taxi mafias, while absorbing disproportionate press from many jurisdictions at once
0x_rs将近 3 年前
Inexcusable. Yet no considerable action will be taken against this corporation nor the corrupted, lobbied politicians that enabled this will ever be held accountable, let alone be cornered to resign from whatever seat they occupy. It&#x27;s not a good indication for the future how the EU seems to be one giant toybox for fraudulent activities such as these, with all the recent scandals.. there seems to be very little interest in even just keeping a façade of legitimacy.
blobbers将近 3 年前
They’ve made multiple movies&#x2F;series about WeWork. Where is the movie in Uber??? Take my money! Show me the Kalanick!
wolverine876将近 3 年前
I think it&#x27;s important to realize that Uber is what SV has become: Corruption and abuse of power as the primary tools of business, not innovation. Embrace of the powerful, not the little guy in their garage. Destroying other people and embracing sociopathology..<p>There&#x27;s a long way from Steve Jobs&#x27; Apple, or Netscape, or many others (including FOSS!), who made exciting ground-breaking innovations, to Uber.
jmyeet将近 3 年前
There’s nothing particularly surprising here. This is capitalism. Pretty much every company operates like this.<p>That doesn’t make every company the same. Goldman Sachs literally killed people for profit. Defense companies made up for their revenue loss from the end of the Afghanistan war by earning almost that same amount in military aid to Ukraine (seriously, our ~$50B in both cases).<p>Those aren’t tech companies FWIW. Even there there’sa error spectrum. AirBnB is cancer, for example.<p>But at last Uber killed the taxi industry, which was almost universally awful, corrupt and horrible to use. Seriously, good riddance.<p>It’ll be interesting to see what happens when Uber, Lyft, etc have to operate as commercial enterprises rather than VC money incinerators. This business isn’t going away.
jsemrau将近 3 年前
How is this news? This has been known for a long while. I, myself of all people, have written an article about how dangerous lobbying from these tech companies is [1] Corporations need to get their funding out of politics because it perverts the democratic process. The same applies to foreign influence. It bothers me greatly how much right-wing parties all-over the world are taking a pro-Russian stance.<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@jsemrau&#x2F;uber-and-lift-set-a-very-dangerous-political-precedent-bc6585126198" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@jsemrau&#x2F;uber-and-lift-set-a-very-dangero...</a>
marban将近 3 年前
Lots of early stock holders in the comments.
raverbashing将近 3 年前
But the question is, how many politicians and lobbyists were on the other side, trying to keep the status quo as it was, in favour of taxi drivers?
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CodeWriter23将近 3 年前
Isn’t this leak about 5 years old?
sylware将近 3 年前
ofc, microsoft, its owner, has _nothing_ to do with all that.<p>...
bradgranath将近 3 年前
Duh?
hahaitsfunny将近 3 年前
People on here pretending like unelected rich elite influencing politics via NGOs by meeting with elected government officials in Davos every year isn&#x27;t a big deal or anything to worry about, and that Uber&#x27;s behavior as well as the behavior of corrupt world leaders who enabled Uber, is justified because Taxi companies and labor unions are also corrupt.<p>People unconcerned with this stuff are probably the same folks who think Klaus Schwab is a benign leader of the WEF which is just some benign global humanitarian organization, and that when Schwaab talks about penetrating government cabinets, and people owning nothing by 2030 and liking it, it&#x27;s just a conspiracy.<p>This is one of the major problems with the world - tech overlords and globalists have everyone brainwashed into thinking this dystopian shit is normal, and that we should accept it, or that it&#x27;s necessary to build a &quot;sustainable&quot; future - whatever that means. Sounds to me like the rich and powerful will do whatever they can to become more rich and powerful, damn the costs. Their purported ends justify their means, no matter how violent, destructive, unethical or immoral.<p>Edit: I just thought more about this. This article literally painted a scene at one point where the effing POTUS, supposedly the most powerful person in the world, was being spoken to like a child by the CEO of a corporation, and then changed policy on the spot after being bullied around at a secretive conference that I won&#x27;t even get into the sketchiness of. If this isn&#x27;t concerning, I don&#x27;t know what is.
EGreg将近 3 年前
“There’s nothing wrong with capitalism. This is a problem of crony-capitalism &#x2F; corporatism. &lt;EOF&gt;”<p>That is what people will reflexively say to any analysis that discusses the role of the profit motive and wall street earnings in leading to these outcomes.<p>The fact that systematic actions like this to amass advantages at expense of the public happen with regularity at Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Exxon Mobil, General Motors and many other for-profit enterprises, means there may be some room to improve the economic paradigm in which these things are built. And in fact, we have just such a paradigm, and the products of it (Wikipedia, Linux, etc.) are of a completely different character. They don’t have an investor class at all, that needs to recoup their investment by extracting rents forever.<p>The alternative to for-profit venture funded companies owned by Wall St doesn’t have to be communism or socialism. It can be a gift economy such Science, Creative Commons, or Open Source Software and decentralized permissionless networks based around protocols like HTTP.<p>For example, Uber can be replaced with an open source, decentralized marketplace that <i>doesn’t</i> take 50% of all drivers’ revenue, but has a free market and ratings &#x2F; reviews operated by the community.<p>But if a project is funded by venture CAPITALISTS, subsidized by money-losing unit economics through multiple rounds, and then dumped on the public in a Wall St IPO, and subsequently owned by pension funds and other pools of capital, then yes that is a quintessential example of Capitalism. And the result is that there is an investor class that will always tell Uber’s board to maintain centralized control and extract rents from the public, squeeze drivers, as well as try to hack the society around them (as in this article: secretly trick, get around the police, lobby state officials) whereas an open source decentralized system wouldn’t do any of that.<p>The dream of cryptocurrency was that the developers would sell the tokens to the public and make money on the primary sale, but after that, the network would belong to the public. Even any royalties that could accrue (such as on every transfer of the token) would be above-board and disclosed once, so everyone knows the deal. Sadly, rather than focusing on a “peer to peer cash system” as Satoshi’s whitepaper said, the entire space switched around 2013 to “store of value”, HODL and speculative investment. It’s actually a cop-out that happened because blockchains can’t scale well.<p>Bitcoin was the granddaddy and it solved the double-spend problem, but in a very brute-force way, by gathering all transactions in the world in one place every 10 mins to search for a double-spend. It’s actually even worse than that, because every transaction has to be gossipped to every miner, and all mined transactions have to be stored forever in an ever-growing history. The tech is a straightjacket but the vision is good. We do need smart contracts to replace privately-owned middlemen, but we need the smart contracts to run on a better DLT than Blockchain. There have been tons of innovation since 2008 but Bitcoin maximalists and Web2 maximalists both deride all of it, so progress depends on open-minded people who look past the grift of utility-less coins long enough to build something useful
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wronglyprepaid将近 3 年前
&gt; Files expose attempts to lobby Joe Biden, Olaf Scholz and George Osborne<p>They can&#x27;t be very smart, Joe Biden is the least corrupt president ever and has committed to total transparency: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;us-usa-biden-briefing-idUSKBN29Q08S" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;us-usa-biden-briefing-idUSKB...</a>
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skilled将近 3 年前
Biden being shown as a puppet in this context is certainly something.<p>Admittedly, Guardian is the <i>only</i> news site I check ever (last 5 or so years anyway), and even I am impressed that they went with a straight arrow. Good job.<p>&#x2F;&#x2F; Weird seeing downvotes for my reply without any comments&#x2F;input. Just goes to show - ignorance is bliss.
jollybean将近 3 年前
Someone describe to me why politicians even bother to meet with Uber.<p>Why would Biden, Macron bother with this company, and not others?<p>Where is the &#x27;money flow&#x27; happening here? Is someone being bribed? Was Uber funnelling money to a related cause?<p>I can understand ministers wanting to please a big up and coming company, sure, that&#x27;s their job in some way, but not like this.<p>How does Uber have the ability to get the VP to &#x27;change their speech&#x27;.<p>What&#x27;s going on? That&#x27;s not in the article.
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mi_lk将近 3 年前
... the leak is from 2013-2017 when Travis Kalanick was still CEO, I mean it was bad but we already know it.
xwdv将近 3 年前
Everything Uber has done is pretty standard for a lot of big companies, people just love to bash Uber for some reason, probably people with ties to the utterly corrupt Taxi industry.
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intrasight将近 3 年前
Rules are meant to be broken. That&#x27;s how progress occurs. The courts will decide what, if any, sanctions to apply. This is as it should be in a liberal democracy.
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