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Why scientists are turning to Rust (2020)

38 点作者 anupj将近 3 年前

16 条评论

phendrenad2将近 3 年前
Discussion from 2 years ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25270762" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25270762</a><p>It&#x27;s a weird article. It seems more like a Rust sales pitch than anything.
BiteCode_dev将近 3 年前
Yeah no, &quot;scientists&quot;, this wonderful general category that means nothing and everything, in general, are not turning to Rust.<p>Programming is a niche. Rust is a, albeit amazing and gaining traction at a fast pace, niche in this niche.<p>99% of mathematicians, physicists and biologists I have worked with have not even tried programming yet. And if they do, they will start with the stuff their friends are already using: python, fortran, etc.<p>Hell, 99% of the dev have not heard of rust yet. I go from companies to companies, every time I talk about rust, I have to explain what it is.<p>It&#x27;s not even living in a bubble if you think that, it&#x27;s living in an bubble from another dimension.<p>Having generalization from anecdotal evidence in nature.com is kinda ironic if you think about it.
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eggy将近 3 年前
&gt;&gt;“No other mainstream languages really have these concepts, and they’re really core to understanding a lot of how you have to write code in Rust,” Nichols says.<p>I tried Rust, but I am using SPARK2014&#x2F;Ada for my needs. Easier to learn and has the formal methods&#x2F;software integrity checks and other niceties. I started learning SPARK2014 while reading the book, &quot;Building High Integrity Applications with SPARK&quot;. It was used by the CubeSat lab in Vermont [1], which the book ties in nicely. I can see programmers flocking to Rust, but scientists are not typically computer scientists, and mainstream shouldn&#x27;t be a highly-weighted metric. I find Rust a lot more heavy than SPARK&#x2F;Ada. I&#x27;ve tried Julia too, but you can write systems level code in SPARK&#x2F;Ada too. The adacore site has a lot of great projects and articles on embedded software, drone low-level code rewrite in SPARK, etc.<p>The partnership between AdaCore and Ferrous Systems is very exciting [2]. I hope to be able to stay with SPARK and gradually learn Rust with this partnership when Rust has a bit more under its belt with real world embedded, high-integrity software like Ada&#x27;s legacy.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cubesatlab.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cubesatlab.org&#x2F;</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ferrous-systems.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;ferrous-systems-adacore-joining-forces&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ferrous-systems.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;ferrous-systems-adacore-joi...</a>
okasaki将近 3 年前
Are they? I worked with bioinformaticians and now physicists and rust has never come up.<p>&gt; Köster, now at the University of Duisburg-Essen in Germany, was looking for a language that offered the “expressiveness” of Python but the speed of languages such as C and C++. In other words, “a high-performance language that is still, let’s say, ergonomic to use”, he explains. What he found was Rust.<p>He must not have looked very far. There are much better options if you&#x27;re looking for the expressiveness of Python. Personally I&#x27;m very fond of Nim.
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rich_sasha将近 3 年前
Good question then: how is the &quot;occasianal&#x27;s programmer&quot; experience compare between Rust and C++?<p>I used to write games in C++ as a teenager, and using it daily was fine. Now I find, every time I try to write something in it, it&#x27;s a massive pain, as I forget the myriad of tiny rules, the very specific ways to write types etc. And that&#x27;s before I even think about dependency management.<p>Is Rust <i>substantially</i> better at this? When I read frustrations about Rust, it seems to be mostly about the Borrow Checker... does that affect &quot;pedestrian&quot; code, like &quot;take this 4-dimensional array and munge it with an arcane for-loop&quot;? Or, here&#x27;s a basic immutable class with some fields and some methods, make it available in Python?<p>I&#x27;m liking the look of Nim because it is concise, safe and fast-ish, so a good companion to Python. I dislike C++ as that companion because, even though once you&#x27;ve written your code, it integrates very well with Python, it&#x27;s a lot of pain to get there. Where would Rust fit in this picture?
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planetis将近 3 年前
I remember many years ago people would start building a scientific ecosystem around Go, but where are all the scientists&#x2F;engineers using Go now? Eventually people would also realize that Rust is just a bad language choice for building some things, like making games, scientific computing, etc. I expect all this effort to become abandoned. Not everyone wants to invest learning hard to explain memory management concepts and especially engineers are just not interested. For them programming is a tool, not something to be sucked in. I believe Nim on the other hand is a much more realistic choice, with a vibrant scientific community and many fast, high quality and easy to use libraries.
Normille将近 3 年前
<p><pre><code> &gt;But for many Rustaceans, the human element is equally compelling. Hauck, a member of the LGBT+ community, says that Rust users have gone out of their way to make her feel welcome. </code></pre> Because, when interacting with a programming language community, it&#x27;s so vitally important to know that they accept what you choose to do with your genitals, in your spare time.
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Fomite将近 3 年前
Field specific, to be sure, but I know literally zero scientists turning to Rust.
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lcall将近 3 年前
I know someone working on a materials science PhD. He might have to learn python. I could more easily recommend Rust if there were, say, different flavors of Rust, that allow learning the &quot;hard stuff&quot; in stages, but starting with one that uses garbage collection by default. Then, instead of learning python and maybe having to re-learn Rust later--I realize this is less likely, but still--to save time overall, he could learn the &quot;intro level&quot; of Rust now, and expand his Rust skills as need arises, without ever having to restart from scratch to learn a new language, new libraries, etc.<p>In other words, a step-by-step developer growth process from simple to hard, maybe 2-4 levels, governed by a Cargo.toml setting probably (comparable to a compiler switch), and you never have to throw away what you already learned. Like maybe &quot;learn once, do anything&quot;.<p>(Yes, compatibility with peer group is probably a larger factor. But as an option for some where it fits.)
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batterylow将近 3 年前
A couple of years ago when checking out Rust for scientific work I started looking for familiar ground, e.g. Jupyter notebook support. I was happy to find google&#x2F;evcxr&#x27;s Jupyter kernel [1] and started writing an early access book on Rust for data analysis [2].<p>I still check _Are we learning yet_ [3] to see their recommendation on the state of ML in Rust. It still lists &quot;the ecosystem isn&#x27;t very complete yet.&quot;, which is how I felt at the time!<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;google&#x2F;evcxr&#x2F;tree&#x2F;main&#x2F;evcxr_jupyter" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;google&#x2F;evcxr&#x2F;tree&#x2F;main&#x2F;evcxr_jupyter</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datacrayon.com&#x2F;shop&#x2F;product&#x2F;data-analysis-with-rust-notebooks&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datacrayon.com&#x2F;shop&#x2F;product&#x2F;data-analysis-with-rust-...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arewelearningyet.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arewelearningyet.com</a>
pipeline_peak将近 3 年前
Why 5 scientists are turning to Rust (2020)
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isaacg将近 3 年前
This article describes pretty much exactly why I turned to Rust for my scientific computing - high speed, far easier to use than C or C++, less bug prone.
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physicsguy将近 3 年前
I worked as a Research Software Engineer, and while I saw the topic come up as a &#x27;that&#x27;s cool&#x27;, I never met anyone using it. People writing HPC code are still overwhelmingly using C++ or Fortran, and everyone else is using Python or R. I didn&#x27;t even come across more than about 2 people in my institution using Julia, despite the hype that it gets.
codetrotter将近 3 年前
OP or mods should probably add &quot;(2020)&quot; to the end of the title.
zgs将近 3 年前
Python and R are the two go to modern programming languages for number crunching. Fortran still has a lot of sway. C has a little.<p>Rust is totally irrelevent in this context.
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latenightcoding将近 3 年前
First thing I did was to ctrl+f &quot;10x genomics&quot;, because apart from them not too many people are using Rust for scientific computing.