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Helium

150 点作者 Liron将近 3 年前

22 条评论

erulabs将近 3 年前
Well, no ill will to the Helium people - it seems like a somewhat smart idea. I wouldn&#x27;t call it a &quot;Web3&quot; use-case though - as many have mentioned - they could have done their own payment processing and it wouldn&#x27;t change the underlying product much (except possibly in the excitement of customers &#x2F; would-be hotspot hosters).<p>I guess my ill will here is with VC firms. Helium has raised 364.8M. With $6,500 revenue? I&#x27;ve talked to about a dozen folks like me, doing small, on-the-cusp-of-success startups, doing 3 to 5x that revenue with nowhere near the exposure as Helium, who get essentially laughed out of the room when trying to raise 500K.<p>I have a <i>very</i> hard time buying that the founders are ~600x better at fund raising than others, or that the idea even requires that much capital to prove out. Could they have not started with say, one neighborhood in SF, proved the idea, and raised from there?<p>The only conclusion is that the author of this piece is right - it&#x27;s a scam to dump the hyped coin onto retail investors. If it ever comes out that A16Z did in fact sell at peak and profited massively from this, I cannot help but feel it is existentially damning for the concept of silicon valley. I say that as a lowly but devoted tech acolyte.<p>Well, at any rate, my response of being a bit annoyed at &quot;what&#x27;s your path to 100B&quot; type questions from VCs will now change to &quot;What makes you a capitalist and not a racketeer?&quot;.
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idkyall将近 3 年前
I think I&#x27;m most bothered by Helium lying about their corporate users. There is no longer a question in my mind that we need better government protections for consumers in the crypto space. Whether we ascribe their false marketing to negligence or outright malice, companies like Helium and their investors should be held responsible for exploiting consumers.<p>I purchased a Helium hotspot last year and was drawn in by what seemed like a real use case for a decentralized system - it made sense to me as far as what value was being provided by miners compared to other PoW cryptocurrencies. I was disappointed by the rewards being somewhat low, but I chalked it up to bad timing.<p>A few months later, the helium network proposed a change which would take a % of rewards away from hotspot operators and gave it to large holders of the token who have staked it(validators). Sure, this change was &#x27;voted&#x27; on - but having more HNT tokens gives you more votes. If large capital holders(at least 50% of the supply seems to be held by the top ~25-30 wallets per <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;explorer.helium.com&#x2F;accounts&#x2F;richest" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;explorer.helium.com&#x2F;accounts&#x2F;richest</a>) can outvote those actually providing utility(hotspot owners), then it doesn&#x27;t really strike me as a particularly fair and decentralized system.
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eikaramba将近 3 年前
I am currently building a end consumer device using LORAWAN. It sends you a push notification upon receiving mail in your mailbox. It also uses helium, because the network coverage is quite good. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notific.at" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notific.at</a> - i think end user use cases are the key to make the business model behind Helium work. The fact that helium was able to scale within 1 year what TTN had to do in 8 years is quite the proof for me that paying gateway owners some kind of revenue is the way to scale the network coverage.
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digdugdirk将近 3 年前
Whoof. A pretty damning overview of one of the few intriguing &quot;Web3&quot; use cases.<p>I&#x27;ve always thought blockchain subsidized mesh networks were a great idea - people provide access via a router, and are reimbursed based on how many other people access the network via their node. Seems ideal, and could quickly and easily scale across an urban area.<p>Is there some inherent limitation in the underlying technology that prevents this type of distributed system?
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superchroma将近 3 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t have spent so long talking about $HNT spot price, as it erodes the impact of the article. There are companies doing good work with share prices that aren&#x27;t pumping, too. Helium is a scam regardless.<p>I&#x27;ve read additional criticism where bad actors in China operate fake nodes which report as being in the middle of the ocean; using the network browser tool you can see arrays of nodes there. This is far more alarming to me as it indicates that the security model isn&#x27;t real and the network is compromised.
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jshprentz将近 3 年前
Andreas Spiess, &quot;the guy with the Swiss accent,&quot; analyzed the Helium network in May 2021 for his YouTube channel about electronics and micro-controllers. His video [1] provided a technical description and also analyzed the Helium business case. Spoiler alert: he concluded that the business case for hotspot owners was comparable to a Ponzi scheme.<p>At the time of his analysis, the Helium network had about 39,000 hotspots with about 32.5 million data credits spent in 30 days by network customers for data transport. At the fixed price of $0.00001 per data credit, that customers spent a total of $325. On average, each hotspot earned a little over 8&#x2F;10 of a cent from data traffic during those 30 days.<p>In the 14 months since that analysis, Helium signed up many more data customers and grew the network to almost 920,000 hotspots. Customers spent about 187 billion data credits in the past 30 days at a total cost of $1.87 million. On average, each hotspot earned about $2 from data traffic during the past 30 days.<p>Hotspot owners also earn rewards from proof of coverage activity: sending beacon messages and witnessing those messages from other hotspots. Proof of coverage rewards were very lucrative during Helium&#x27;s first year, but diminished rapidly as more hotspots shared proof of coverage pie. Those rewards also diminished in urban and suburban areas as people deployed other hotspots nearby.<p>The Helium Explorer [2] lets hotspot owners find locations where proof of coverage earnings remain high. These locations are in smaller communities and on the periphery of overdeveloped metropolitan hotspot clusters.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;nerQCrOam5U" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;nerQCrOam5U</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;explorer.helium.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;explorer.helium.com&#x2F;</a>
macrolime将近 3 年前
It&#x27;s not surprising that the revenue is that low. LoRa consumer devices are almost nonexistent at the moment and office buildings etc who use LoRa devices have their own hotspots on site.<p>Since there are now tons of Helium hotspots everywhere, maybe that could be open up the market for more consumer LoRa devices? Not seeing much of it yet though, but who knows.
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Archelaos将近 3 年前
&gt; He conveniently ignores that conflict of interest policies prevent journalists owning cryptocurrencies, not experiencing them using the paper&#x27;s money.<p>To see a a conflict of interest here is like saying that you must not write about the US-Dollar as a journalist as long as you have some. Perhaps it is a conflict of interest if you own a lot of it and do not disclose the fact -- but any? Is this really the case?
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xtremew0lf99将近 3 年前
Is Helium&#x27;s New &#x27;5G Network&#x27; Just Hot Air? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pcmag.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;is-heliums-new-5g-network-just-hot-air" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pcmag.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;is-heliums-new-5g-network-just-ho...</a>
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haasted将近 3 年前
&gt; Roose could have rapidly found enough information to cast doubt on Helium&#x27;s sustainability.<p>Couldn&#x27;t a similar accusation be levied against a lot of other hyper-growth startups, eg Uber? They were heavily subsidizing rides to grow and might not actually have a workable model if the subsidies are removed.
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_fizz_buzz_将近 3 年前
Helium is basically Herbalife marketed to crypto bros. There is no reason these hotspots cost $500 dollars or more. It&#x27;s a simple Lora access point and should sell somewhere around a $100 (or less, considering how many are sold). Just like MLMs: People believe they are a partner and will profit along with Helium. In reality they are the end customer. Nova Labs makes money from onboarding people&#x27;s hot spots and that&#x27;s it. Every other revenue is a rounding error.
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shimonabi将近 3 年前
My biggest disappoinment is with NPR. They were shilling Helium on their recent podcast. Anderssen Horowitz was even cited as a source in their story.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;07&#x2F;22&#x2F;1113115868&#x2F;little-house-on-the-blockchain?t=1659717904035" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;07&#x2F;22&#x2F;1113115868&#x2F;little-house-on-th...</a>
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bArray将近 3 年前
I follow a Facebook page for Helium miners in the UK, because a family member was interested in getting involved and I said I would check it out first. I recommended against it (as I do with all crypto &#x27;investments&#x27;).<p>I observed it going &quot;well&quot;, with people boasting massive return on investment. I then saw their profits drop, with software updates and faulty equipment being blamed. As a result, people went out and purchased new and more expensive equipment, many buying ludicrously expensive support equipment to improve signal properties. After quite some time of this, I then saw their revenue drop even more so.<p>Many of these people are invested several thousand pounds (multiple miners, multiple types of miners and support equipment). I see fewer and fewer people post now, with many now accepting their loss.<p>There is a real cost here, and as per usual, it is the people least able to afford it that pay it.
lxe将近 3 年前
I have disconnected my gateway, as it&#x27;s been wasting bandwidth downloading the blockchain all the time due to some bug. At its peak, I was generating about $100 a month, which was nice. Should have sold a while ago, but now I&#x27;m just holding the almost-worthless tokens, just like everything else in crypto winter.
trenchgun将近 3 年前
Is it just a yet another spying operation by China? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;HeliumNetwork&#x2F;comments&#x2F;s0cw2e&#x2F;can_anybody_here_explain_what_this_is_all_about&#x2F;?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=ios_app&amp;utm_name=iossmf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;HeliumNetwork&#x2F;comments&#x2F;s0cw2e&#x2F;can_a...</a>
yuan43将近 3 年前
From the Helium home page:<p>&gt; Using a Burn-and-Mint Equilibrium token model, The People’s Network utilizes two units of exchange: HNT and Data Credits.<p>Here&#x27;s a simple heuristic to separate &quot;crypto&quot; wheat from chaff: is a &quot;utility token&quot; involved? If yes, you are probably looking at a scam. If not, scam is less likely.<p>Here Helium gives off a strong aroma of eau-du-scam in that not just one but <i>two</i> tokens are involved.<p>Wait, there&#x27;s more. A few hops through the home page leads to a GitHub repo with the following:<p>&gt; In order to join the blockchain, every hotspot requires an onboarding code. This code is validated by a staking server and used to onboard a hotspot and pay the $40 staking fee. Currently, these codes are exclusively issued by Helium Inc and validated by their staking server at &lt;staking.helium.foundation&gt;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;helium&#x2F;HIP&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;0019-third-party-manufacturers.md" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;helium&#x2F;HIP&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;0019-third-party-man...</a><p>So not only are there tokens, but there&#x27;s a non-refundable fee to get going.<p>Maybe it&#x27;s possible to run one of these projects without it turning into a MLM scam. But given enough time, even the ones with the best intentions seem to arrive at that destination.
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_tom_将近 3 年前
Can we not get decent titles on things? At least enough to know whether a post is about an element, a crypto tool, software for amazon, etc.<p>And maybe a hint of what about helium people the post addresses?
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colinsane将近 3 年前
impressive to me that this thing managed to construct global coverage provided by literally tens or hundreds of thousands of disparate actors, while delivering on nearly zero of the mesh networking dream.<p>IIUC each node is a one-way LoRa gateway. literally: a Helium device can only communicate with devices NOT on Helium.<p>in the LoRa implementation traffic is strictly one-way. a device can transmit sensor&#x2F;heartbeat data, and that’s it. no ACKs from whatever IP service is ingesting that data, much less HTTP error codes.<p>the 5g stuff doesn’t really solve this. it broadens the applications — because at least now you can have bidirectional comms <i>initiated</i> from within the Helium network (TCP streams). but you still can’t initiate connections <i>into</i> or even <i>within</i> the network. it’s fundamentally flawed as a “mesh network”, in that it only works so long as a majority of IP destinations <i>aren’t on Helium</i>.
SnowHill9902将近 3 年前
Words are too overloaded already. Time to invent new letters.
keepquestioning将近 3 年前
Is LoRa compatible with IEEE Wi-Fi HaLow?
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rco8786将近 3 年前
&gt; A major reason that cryptocurrencies have become such a problem is that mainstream journalists<p>Stopped reading exactly here. It’s also the first sentence.
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sanxiyn将近 3 年前
Instead of reading about Helium that doesn&#x27;t matter, you may want to read about helium that does matter.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cen.acs.org&#x2F;business&#x2F;specialty-chemicals&#x2F;Podcast-helium-shortage-wasnt-supposed&#x2F;100&#x2F;web&#x2F;2022&#x2F;03" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cen.acs.org&#x2F;business&#x2F;specialty-chemicals&#x2F;Podcast-hel...</a>
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