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Facebook Gave Police Teenager's DMs in Abortion Prosecution

349 点作者 intunderflow将近 3 年前

21 条评论

omegacharlie将近 3 年前
Someone reading this may disagree with abortion. But if we can separate the controversy of the topic at hand from the fact a state government requested data from a private company for what is not universally considered a crime it could lead to a pragmatic discussion into data requests and privacy (i.e questionable practice of &#x27;emergency data requests&#x27; that function outside the normal process of a subpoena[1])<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;krebsonsecurity.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;03&#x2F;hackers-gaining-power-of-subpoena-via-fake-emergency-data-requests&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;krebsonsecurity.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;03&#x2F;hackers-gaining-power-of...</a>
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mkaic将近 3 年前
The real issue I have is that Facebook keeps an unencrypted copy of everyone&#x27;s DMs stored and just waiting to be handed to the government. I understand it&#x27;s how they make money, and that they&#x27;ve done it forever, but man, I guess using Signal has spoiled me. It&#x27;s so weird to me that most people are completely unaware or unworried that their &quot;private&quot; conversations aren&#x27;t private in the slightest.
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kodah将近 3 年前
This story leaves out some details: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nypost.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;nebraska-mom-and-daughter-charged-for-burning-burying-aborted-fetus&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nypost.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;nebraska-mom-and-daughter-char...</a><p>&gt; When an investigator interviewed the teen, she allegedly confirmed that she had a miscarriage after midnight on April 22, and said that she and her mother placed the fetus in a bag in the back of their van, according to the court papers.<p>&gt; Jessica and Celeste also said that Barnhill, whose relationship to the two women has not been revealed, later helped them bury the fetus on his property.<p>&gt; Police were led to the makeshift gravesite and unearthed the corpse, which was found to show signs of “thermal injuries,” the documents stated.<p>&gt; Barnhill reportedly confirmed to the investigators that the mother and daughter had attempted to burn the fetus before putting it in the ground.<p>My opinion might be a bit contrarian, but I was always taught that Roe v Wade was because abortions had become <i>so unsafe</i> without a proper place to do them. I imagine in this case we&#x27;re missing some details, because the <i>actual</i> abortion involved sourcing some pills that are specifically used for abortion. I don&#x27;t imagine sourcing those was quick. My read on this set of circumstances is that if you put arbitrary blockers on something that someone <i>really</i> wants to do, it course corrects them into a very unhealthy path. In this case, the details are shocking, but not incongruent with what I have been told was the reasoning for Roe v Wade and true to other harm reduction logic.<p>It&#x27;s awful easy to argue post-facto that she could just have given birth, but I think that ignores a lot of changes and sacrifices a woman at 17-18 years old will have to endure.
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commoner将近 3 年前
While this case involved a search warrant, Facebook also gives information to police departments without a warrant for any case that they determine to be an &quot;emergency&quot;. Here is the portal where the information is requested and provided:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;records" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;records</a><p>Back when I used to have a Facebook account, Facebook provided private information from my account to a police department without a warrant for a situation that they deemed an &quot;emergency&quot;, but that I did not. I no longer use Facebook.
r00fus将近 3 年前
Information you post to Facebook is essentially public. Best we teach our kids that. The &quot;privacy&quot; safeguards are BS.<p>Also I think that the Nebraska law is a symptom of toxic, fascist mindset that&#x27;s pervading the country - and that&#x27;s more concerning to me than Facebook so easily folding (which I expected).
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klawcode将近 3 年前
Need to get more people onboard with end to end encryption and obfuscating every possible piece of data online. As other commenters have stated, the corporations that run the internet are not your friends.<p>There is a large number of people in the US who are authoritarian and can&#x27;t help but try to get involved in other people&#x27;s business to the maximum degree. They won&#x27;t stop at any boundary, they are religious zealots.
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zuminator将近 3 年前
Because of &quot;terrorism&quot; etc., text messages and the like will always be subpoenable. Meta would not be able to quash a bog-standard request like this. It&#x27;s only even newsworthy because it involves the rescinded right to abortion.<p>The lesson here is don&#x27;t use unencrypted services to discuss your crimes.
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crmd将近 3 年前
This level of corporate amorality &#x2F; lawful evil reminds me of IBM during World War II.
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pyuser583将近 3 年前
There was a meme a while ago about deleting menstrual tracking apps.<p>So many people, including folks who should know better (professors, etc) were freaking out.<p>I wonder if it was dreamed up in FBs PR department as a distraction.
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SpaceManNabs将近 3 年前
Please use Signal and remember that your receiver still has a copy of your messages.
dutchbrit将近 3 年前
Did Facebook even know why the police had search warrant?
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superchroma将近 3 年前
It is time to go back to treating the internet like it was scary and hostile, because it still is, except it now has a thick veneer of slick marketing to suggest otherwise. Young people should be counselled to stay anonymous online and shown examples like this, because zero good can come from giving personal, compromising information to a company along with your real name in this way.
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ck2将近 3 年前
Just a reminder, in the USA all emails older than six-months old can be read by virtually any law enforcement agency without a warrant.<p>This is why there was a server in the basement and everyone probably should have a server in the basement. Spam management made that almost impossible for the end-user though. We could have put spammers in prison but oddly lawmakers never decided that was a problem.
micromacrofoot将近 3 年前
Outright ghoulish behavior from Facebook. They didn&#x27;t even put up a fight.<p>And for Nebraska to put this 17 year old on trial as an adult is doubly cruel.
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Overtonwindow将近 3 年前
This is tragic. Women should have access to abortion, and 23 weeks is plenty, but miscarrying and burying it in the backyard needs an investigation. Just to make sure we have all the facts.
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cat_plus_plus将近 3 年前
According to the article, Nebraska currently allows abortion up to 20 weeks. So for a valid criminal case, this one either had to take place after 20 weeks or be done in violation of other regulations, like taking place at a licensed medical provider. The article mentions mother and daughter burying fetus in backyard after trying to burn it. This implies fairly large fetus that would normally be subject to medical rather than chemical abortion. All in all, this makes the situation less shocking. I may oppose criminal prosecution of cocaine users, yet I wouldn&#x27;t be that shocked if Facebook provided state law enforcement with DMs between a user and a dealer.
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lscdlscd将近 3 年前
Sickening. If FB were to selectively refuse to comply with some state subpoenas, what would be the consequences? Banning of FB in Indiana? I think that would be more of a punishment for the Boomers of Indiana than for FB.
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twblalock将近 3 年前
This is the important part:<p>&gt; A Nebraska teenager is facing criminal charges alleging she aborted a fetus in violation of state law, after authorities obtained her Facebook messages using a search warrant.<p>Should companies disobey the law by refusing to comply with a valid search warrant from a state government in the United States?<p>If so, how is that any different from Uber breaking various laws?<p>I happen to believe that access to abortion is important (although quite a lot of people don&#x27;t), but the rule of law matters too. It&#x27;s not reasonable or logical to believe that it&#x27;s ok for companies to break some laws but not others. So, I can&#x27;t really be mad at Facebook for doing this.
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hparadiz将近 3 年前
This thread is disgusting. All these men making excuses for why the state should investigate a 17 year old for a miscarriage.<p>It&#x27;s not your fucking business. It&#x27;s a private health matter. Period. You don&#x27;t get to go on a fishing expedition &quot;to get to the bottom&quot; of anything after the fact with zero evidence of any wrong doing.
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pyuser583将近 3 年前
Imagine if the case was against a rapist, child abuser, or insurrectionist.<p>Because there isn’t a huge difference when it comes to complying with subpoenas.<p>FB learned a long time ago that defending unpopular criminals’ communications isn’t worth the political cost.
jmyeet将近 3 年前
The current Supreme has engaged in historical revisionism to reach its anti-abortion stance (eg abortion was perfectly legal 200 years ago, so much so that Ben franklin published at-home instructions for performing an abortion [1]). At the time of the ruling, it was pointed out that these draconian laws that half the states had passed or were passing wouldn&#x27;t stop abortion, they would simply stop safe abortions. This case is evidence of that.<p>Some might choose to focus on why the defendant chose to get an abortion. I don&#x27;t see any details of that here. Personally, I don&#x27;t care. If she wants one, she should be able to get one.<p>Investigating this case at all is both unexpected and psychotic. Trying her as an adult is the next level of psychotic.<p>That all aside, as for Facebook, again this is light on detail regarding the cooperation given. Did they fight the subpoena? Did they have any grounds to? What steps were made to protect that user&#x27;s privacy? We simply don&#x27;t know.<p>As an aside, it seems like you have better privacy by using regular SMS than any form of IM. Law enforcement can get metadata but that&#x27;s not so useful. Getting the actual messages from any IM service <i>seems</i> to be much easier. Perhaps WhatsApp would be better? I don&#x27;t know how accessible WA messages currently are.<p>As for Facebook removing posts supplying at-home abortion medication, here I&#x27;m somewhat sympathetic just because Facebook does have to follow the law (even if that law is psychotic and unjustifiable). It&#x27;s no different to supplying medical marijuana to people in places where it&#x27;s illegal. Or supplying much cheaper medications from Canada or Mexico. These are all technically illegal so any company is going to have to try and enforce that.<p>Remember the political forces behind this under the guise of being &quot;pro-life&quot; go to every effort to restrict access to affordable medical care, recently voted against child tax credit (in the IRA) and fight efforts to allow people to fight a living wage.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;05&#x2F;18&#x2F;1099542962&#x2F;abortion-ben-franklin-roe-wade-supreme-court-leak" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;05&#x2F;18&#x2F;1099542962&#x2F;abortion-ben-frank...</a>
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