Tell HN: Linux Mint support IRC appears to me captured by juvenile moderators

12 点作者 paulnpace超过 2 年前

I am a moderator in a small open source project support forum completely unrelated to Linux Mint, so my below discussion is not about me whining over a ban, but a discussion about how unprofessional the Linux Mint IRC support channel is and the way the Linux Mint project has permitted a default tool in the OS to become captured by moderators engaged in what I view as very juvenile behavior.In #linuxmint-help I was pinged by a user, and on discovery I reviewed the user's activity, and it was comprised primarily of pinging other users, including pinging users within seconds of the user's first posts and as the subsequent post.I then posted to the channel:> User respawn is spamming. Please ban.To which the moderator responded by banning my user with the following comment:> User banned per user request.This is a snarky ban reason and it is provided without explanation to the user. I also interpret the moderator enjoys the employment of the ban tool, instead of viewing the ban tool as necessary under certain circumstances.After being banned, I was pinged in #linuxmint-chat by the same moderator:> or maybe he's asking to get banned like that paul guyThe post I was pinged from was part of a discussion of moderators and other users are friendly with were mocking another recently banned user, and then began mocking me.My tone with the moderators may be overly firm for a user not part of their clique, but as a somewhat experienced user I was very annoyed with their behavior (and was pinged into the discussion):> respawn pinged me. If you can't read your feed, you have no business moderating an IRC.There are further posts and both threads can be viewed in the screencap I posted in Linuxmint GitHub[1], but another moderator chimes in:> who wants to kick or ban this wanker?The combination of snarky reason for initial ban along with overy-chummy clique mocking banning of users is not the kind of tool I feel should be default in a highly visible user-facing open source project.I recommend Mint to friends and help them migrate. When I help them migrate, I teach them about the IRC support that is default in the OS.I do not want to have referred anyone to an IRC channel with moderators like the ones running #linuxmint-help.I first posted to the Linux Mint forums, but my post was immediately removed by a forum moderator.I decided to create the GitHub issue because I believe this is a development issue due to the fact that this channel is a default part of the OS.The GitHub issue includes a user who has something to do with the IRC server. The user seems trying to manipulate the facts, but I make no assumptions on motive.They leave out important information, there is a long discussion on topics not relevant to the discussion, they appear unfamiliar overall with IRC, and end the discussion when I point out these things.The GitHub issue was not intended to sort out specifics of rules in IRC, but to discuss a default tool in the OS that I feel should be removed or changed.The issue is closed with a link to the forum post on how to sort out issues with IRC, which is to contact the IRC moderators, whom I view as likely incapable of reasonable discussion. The issue is locked.To me, this indicates that for whatever reason, the project is currently captured by people who are very unprofessional moderators, extending out across support options (GitHub, forums, and IRC), and likely this issue is difficult for inexperienced users to communicate and other more experienced users to discover.So I am trying to find others who both agree and disagree with me, as I am blocked from discussing the issue with anyone outside of the IRC channels.Again, I am not complaining about the rules. I am complaining about the behavior of moderators in a support channel that is default in the operating system.[1] https://github.com/linuxmint/linuxmint/issues/518

5 条评论

LinuxBender超过 2 年前

I am not familiar with HexChat but you might consider using a different IRC client that allows you to silence anything/everything by default and only alert you on specific keywords you are interested in. If you like command line tools, consider trying out WeeChat IRC client [1] It is very customizable and there are many scripts for it. I've used it in conjunction with GNU Screen running on VM's and using Mosh [2] to connect to my VM if I am on a mobile or high-network-loss connection.As for the moderator behavior, Mint is not a commercially supported OS AFAIK so the only options would be to either not use that chat, or publish IRC logs as static files to a website. It is not uncommon for IRC logs to be published on an archive site. Sometimes behavior can improve when people know their actions are recorded and published outside of their control, but perhaps not in this case. Taking a look around it appears this behavior has been going on for some time. [3][1] - <a href="https://weechat.org/" rel="nofollow">https://weechat.org/</a>[2] - <a href="https://mosh.org/" rel="nofollow">https://mosh.org/</a>[3] - <a href="https://libreddit.mha.fi/r/linuxmint/comments/3s3e7q/is_there_a_mint_chat_that_isnt_toxic/" rel="nofollow">https://libreddit.mha.fi/r/linuxmint/comments/3s3e7q/is_ther...</a>

paulnpace超过 2 年前

For those not familiar with Linux Mint, the OS comes with HexChat IRC client installed and by default when opened logs into #linuxmint-help.I usually have HexChat open and monitor for both problems that might affect me and possibly I can help someone, but since I'm really not a desktop guy, I am able to offer little support, so mostly I am there as a lurker.For those not familiar with IRC, a ping[1] from another user in a channel results in a notification from the IRC client, which in a desktop means the client starts blinking. It is a common troll activity in IRC channels to either overtly ping users randomly or seek excuses to make it appear as if the troll accidentally pinged a user. My experience in IRC is that the moderators instaban these trolls even without any complaints from the users who were pinged. I've never read this, but I believe this is because when logged into many channels simultaneously, the number of pings could be very annoying, so each channel needs to be completely on top of this negative behavior.It is notable that I did incorrectly state my IP address was banned. The server seems to not accept logins from the "Guest" user in Linux Mint, which I did not know until further testing, which was after the issue was closed.[1] I may be using ping a little differently, perhaps it is "mention"

navjack27超过 2 年前

After reviewing what you've said I have absolutely no idea what you are on about. So you just lurk the IRC because it's automatically there as a part of a default installation of the distribution? And you sit there with it open just waiting around for... Shit to stir up? Like you don't even need to have it open. What what was your whole reason for having it open other than just having it open to see if there's something that you could get into? Do you have a lot of free time do you have something else to do with your time? This isn't even the proper channel to be bringing this up in and it seems like you just want us to explain to you what you are doing or to take your side or something. This only has to do with tech because it's Linux mint and it's not really like a technical article or an historical write-up about something in tech... This is just you having some sort of social issue with a Linux distributions team and I'm really confused here.This isn't even your job. What you are doing or thought you were doing isn't even your responsibility. You are a user of a Linux distribution who took it upon themselves to point out what another client was doing on their IRC server and you requested a ban of that user after thinking you knew the full picture of what was going on.To pull out a dated reference you are just pulling a Gladys Kravitz from Bewitched.

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orf超过 2 年前

> .. the user respawn talked in #linuxmint-help 5 times in the 13-minute window you provided.> The logs you provided showed they were directing people to #linuxmint-chat to chat instead of using the help channel to chat, as per the rules of the LM Channels.It seems like you’re making a mountain out of a molehill. The user was not spamming, he was clearly directing you to the right channel 5 minutes after you just said “hi” with no follow up support question at all.You’re in the wrong here.

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superchroma超过 2 年前

So you're trying to find people who had similarly bad experiences, and what? Denounce the project? Cancel the IRC admins; to try to apply pressure to anybody who will listen to get some half hearted disciplinary action for the people that banned you? What exactly are you trying to achieve here?