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The Missing Chinese Machine Revolution

65 点作者 socialdemocrat超过 2 年前

11 条评论

HuShifang超过 2 年前
There&#x27;s a big literature on this in Chinese history -- many arguments concentrate on economics and labor specifically (to crudely sum it up, there was always lots of cheap labor available, and little incentive to invest the capital to develop and build expensive machinery so as to replace it). There are cultural and intellectual arguments too.<p>But this piece is totally wrongheaded in that it supposes that South China is China. For most of Chinese history, North China has been politically, socially, and culturally dominant (and not infrequently economically dominant too). It&#x27;s too cold and arid to grow rice, and thus grows wheat and other grains. (This is why the cuisine is dominated by bready dumplings, e.g. mantou) Some of the author&#x27;s arguments about rivers could apply to the Huang He (the Yellow River), too, but it has historically been much more central to Chinese civilization than the Yangzi (&quot;Yangtze&quot;, or Chang Jiang - lit. &quot;long river&quot;).
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dangerbird2超过 2 年前
&gt; If you try to simply cook wheat grains, you will end up with a rather nasty porridge<p>Maybe nasty to modern eaters, but wheat porridge was a staple in Europe, N. Africa, and the Middle East for thousands of years, especially outside of towns where gristmills were far away and often exorbitantly expensive<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Frumenty" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Frumenty</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Harees" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Harees</a>
aetherson超过 2 年前
Author mentions the printing press as an example of European machinery, but doesn&#x27;t seem to go into why printing never really caught on in China, despite there having been movable type printing presses there before the west: ideogrammic writing.<p>This whole revolution that you just needed to have a few dozen dies of each latin alphabet character and you could print any page was completely not operative in a language where you needed thousands of individuals character dies.<p>Ideograms are not really any harder to learn or to handwrite than alphabets in the pre-printing press era, and they aren&#x27;t a disadvantage in the modern computer age, but they were a huge disadvantage in the like 1400-1950 era.
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eternalban超过 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.readingthechinadream.com&#x2F;yao-yang-my-view-of-revolutionary-history.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.readingthechinadream.com&#x2F;yao-yang-my-view-of-rev...</a><p>Author, a Chinese, argues (as an aside in that article) that a conservative response and embrace of rigid confucianism in late Song dynasty to invaders from north, in contrast to the earlier Northern Song&#x27;s dynamic and progressive mode, stopped China from kicking off the industrial revolution.
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est超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve read other analysis, the key point is ancient China always had an excessive working force problem, why inventing machines when your slave labor can work just fine? Things got worse when corns &amp; potatos were introduced to China. A married couple can reallocate to really remote places and raise a family easily. There&#x27;s no motivation to farming for larger margins. Silk and tea were much more lucrative business. Farming was scattered and limited to core-family scale. Tech advancements never caught on.
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fnordpiglet超过 2 年前
Not to nitpick but rice is rarely eaten unprocessed even in ancient times. Milling of rice requires machinery not too dissimilar to wheat, but somewhat more precise as you’re only trying to rub away the outer layers. In all of Asia unmilled rice is for prisoners.
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contingencies超过 2 年前
I build machines in China today and studied ancient Chinese history. Can&#x27;t answer off-hand but <i>Science and Civilisation in Ancient China</i> is the go-to reference text for these sorts of questions. It is a huge, many-volume series still being authored covering evidence of disparate types of scientific advancement in Chinese history. I believe the multi-part <i>Volume 6, Biology and Biological Technology</i> will have the answers you seek, at least two parts of which are available on libgen. Perhaps someone with more time can post a summary here.
diego_moita超过 2 年前
I found surprising that the author totally misses the role of financial capitalism of private bankers lending money to entrepreneurs as a catalyst of inovation.<p>Both Gutenberg and James Watt themselves didn&#x27;t have the money to start their ventures, they were supported and financed by their contemporary versions of venture capitalists.<p>This is something that was quintessential European and didn&#x27;t exist in other parts of the world, from the Medici in Tuscany to the Dutch East India Company, stock markets, double entry accounting, private banks, etc.<p>Even within parts of Europe, the lack of financial capitalism, private bankers and the rule of the law was the main reason many regions didn&#x27;t have strong manufacturing prior to late 19th century, e.g.: Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.
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candlemas超过 2 年前
Doesn&#x27;t northern China grow wheat instead of rice?
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zasdffaa超过 2 年前
If you have unlimited human chattel, who needs machines? (qv. maybe this applies to the Romans as well).
TrapLord_Rhodo超过 2 年前
The pedant wrote the same article from the concept of ancient rome. What&#x27;s interesting is that the industrial revolution didn&#x27;t start in europe... it started in Britain and then spread to wider europe. Which is funny as the author completely skips over britain when it mentions the founding of the industrial(Machine) revolution.<p>tldr; There is a long list of requirements and prerequirements for a machine revolution to occur. The industrial revolution was not inevitable.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;acoup.blog&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;26&#x2F;collections-why-no-roman-industrial-revolution&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;acoup.blog&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;26&#x2F;collections-why-no-roman-indus...</a>
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