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Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

151 点作者 aruanavekar超过 2 年前

27 条评论

hbarka超过 2 年前
Hyundai, Kia, and Audi EVs have paddle shifters which controls the level of regeneration braking and feels very much like downshifting. One paddle (+) steps up the regen to the point where the “drag” gets progressively stronger. The other paddle (-) steps down regen to 0 where the car can coast and there is no regen drag whatsoever. Note this is not the same as Neutral. The car is always in Drive. The function only affects what happens when letting off the power pedal.<p>The nice thing about the regen paddle mechanical control is the no-look ability at your fingertips to change the car’s response depending on driving context. There are moments when you don’t want the car to tip into a regeneration drag when letting off the power pedal and sometimes you feel the need for the “engine braking” to engage right away.<p>All the other EVs just have strong regen (B setting) or low regen and the selection is a preset you have to choose either on the screen or somewhere near the shift cluster and isn’t exactly a no-look control you can change on the fly. The older VW Golf EV used to have a stick where you can tap up and down two levels of regen on the fly and that was also a great experience but now buttons have replaced the stick. (Sigh, it was nice while you had it, VW!) The Chevy Bolt has one paddle but it’s designed like a brake-with-your-hands lever when depressed. Not quite the effect of stepping up or down.<p>In sum, the feeling of downshifting, such as into a turn, can be controlled. On the other hand, there is no need for “upshifting” if the EV had adequate power to get to a high speed. Tesla’s power and torque band is already covering high and low speeds with one gear, although an additional top gear would probably get them to a really insane top speed. I think Toyota’s goal is to eke out more range because they want to use less powerful motors where the power and torque bands would benefit from gearing. My dream is for Tesla to add mechanical paddle shifters and do what Hyundai does.
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zcw100超过 2 年前
I love driving manual transmission cars but I really don&#x27;t like this. It&#x27;s like cosplay for cars. The simulated experience makes it very uncool. I&#x27;d rather just let the manual transmission have one last dignified drive into the sunset.
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superchroma超过 2 年前
I can&#x27;t decide whether this is dumber than Dodge making a huge deal about how their new EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) makes authentic loud V8 noises, but they&#x27;re definitely both stupid. Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road?
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nabilhat超过 2 年前
This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec&#x27;s (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don&#x27;t we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that&#x27;s not the point. I can&#x27;t say I&#x27;ve met a single three pedal afficionado who bemoaned the lack of shifting after experiencing the mild concussion inducing levels of acceleration of some of these new EV&#x27;s. If roadgoing gas cars had that kind of torque, they wouldn&#x27;t shift either, just like the fastest drag cars. There&#x27;s no point.
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Someone1234超过 2 年前
Seems very similar to paddle shifters in a gas CVT. There&#x27;s no mechanical connection between the &quot;clutch peddle&quot; and &quot;shifter&quot; to the actual transmission, it is all just fed into a computer and a simulation is created to give the driver a warm fizzy feeling.<p>If this makes people feel better during the transitional phase, I guess that counts for something, but this is a manual car simulation only.
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Salgat超过 2 年前
For some context, the first Tesla Roadster also had a transmission, but Tesla quickly realized that it&#x27;s far better to simply scale up the motor so that the torque curve is high enough at higher RPMs, electronically cap the torque at low RPM, and remove the transmission altogether. Considering transmissions are one of the most expensive and common major parts to repair in a vehicle, it is astounding that anyone would try to bring it back.
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rossmohax超过 2 年前
It is not the first time when product simulates imperfections of the past technology to make product more authentic in customers eyes.<p>Film color,lenses defects, lots of &quot;analog&quot; audio effects and now cars.
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bl_valance超过 2 年前
I&#x27;m the target audience for this. I know it makes no sense, to make the car slower &quot;shifting&quot; through the gears, but for many of us it&#x27;s the feel of full control over the car&#x27;s mechanics. It&#x27;s similar to the appeal of motorcycles, we ride them because every body input you make matters to the control of it. With all this said, there will still be a market for ICE manual cars for many years to come, it&#x27;ll sure become more expensive to own one but I guess that&#x27;ll be the price we&#x27;ll have to pay. I also don&#x27;t think the desire to continue driving manual will die off, anecdotally, I was talking to my 10-year old nephew and he seemed enamored with the idea of driving manual especially interested in early 2000s JDM cars, this was a really shock to me tbh I would of never thought this will be relevant with today&#x27;s youth.
GnarfGnarf超过 2 年前
As a clutch enthusiast, I would welcome this innovation if it actually improved EV motor performance. If its only purpose is to simulate the ICE experience, I&#x27;m not interested.
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gambiting超过 2 年前
That already exists - in China . They made a vehicle like this for driving lessons - so you can pass your test in a &quot;manual&quot; vehicle.
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nottorp超过 2 年前
Funny that it&#x27;s coming from the same Toyota that puts CVTs with no discrete gear steps in their gas cars and doesn&#x27;t try to hide it...
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rthomas6超过 2 年前
I suppose I&#x27;m not the target market for this. To me this is just added complexity that increases cost and likelihood of something breaking. I&#x27;m still waiting for someone to make a &quot;battery on wheels&quot;, an electric car with no extra bells and whistles. I think it could end up being so cheap to own, and also extremely reliable, since electric cars need no transmissions, and almost no maintenance of any kind for that matter. My Leaf needs tires, and... that&#x27;s about it until 100k miles.
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asdfk-12超过 2 年前
Toyota Tercel SR5, VW Diesel Rabbit, Toyota Pickup, Tacoma, etc. are all enjoyable to drive with a standard (manual) transmission.<p>It is also a joy to be able to service and replace the clutch when required. Here&#x27;s to hoping Toyota doesn&#x27;t break with their history of having vehicles that are easy to work on with cheap plentiful parts available from the dealer even 30 years after it rolls off the production line.<p>Trying to replace a battery pack on my Nissan Leaf has been a nightmare. Rather than supporting owners, they seem to prefer you treat the vehicle as disposable, given availability, cost, and needed tools to service the EV.
guenthert超过 2 年前
And I thought Toyota had a winner with the Prius. I really like mine (2nd generation, &gt;100kmi, still going strong). I&#x27;m a big fan of their &quot;power sharing device&quot; (PSD -- otherwise known as planetary gears). Aside the economics and (fairly) eco-friendliness, it drives quite nice, very smooth. Under the right conditions (flat, smooth road), it feels like gliding. I ride motorcycles too and I learned to drive on a stick shift, but in a car, it&#x27;s just silly. You want what from me? Selecting the proper gear? What next, adjusting oil pressure?
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psychomugs超过 2 年前
As a driver of a manual Miata older than I am, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised by this idea. I find this similar to the Fujifilm line of digital cameras with analog-style exposure dials and optical viewfinders; the affordances are objectively worse and largely unnecessary compared to the PASM mode selectors found in almost every other line of camera today, but they make all the difference between the feel of shooting a computer with a lens versus a proper dedicated camera.<p>I&#x27;m glad someone is trying to save the manual transmission baby from the ICE bathwater.
dragontamer超过 2 年前
I have to imagine that a smaller torqueband but more gears would make for a more efficient electric vehicle.<p>The torque from 1000lbs of Li-ion cannot be denied, but are there other options here? Less torque, fewer batteries, less range but still the acceptable acceleration and cruising speeds?<p>The high end Porches Tycan proved that two gears is a good design, even at the highest end of performance, for example. Lower performance vehicles probably have more opportunity to use gears?
dieselgate超过 2 年前
This is awesome, not having a manual transmission is one of the biggest drawbacks of modern cars for myself and presumably many others Edit: I do have questions about efficiency because I was assume an EV manual may actually be less efficient than an automatic or single speed trans
albertopv超过 2 年前
I don&#x27;t want a fake clutch.
throwaway787544超过 2 年前
I like the idea, but I&#x27;d rather an ICE conversion with a real drivetrain and transmission and an EV motor. I&#x27;ll build it myself if no manufacturers will.
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fred256超过 2 年前
As an owner of both a manual transmission car and an EV, I enjoy driving them both, but I don’t want the manual transmission experience with an EV power train.
mhb超过 2 年前
No worse than Subaru&#x27;s ICE CVT with fake shift points?
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adultSwim超过 2 年前
I miss my old Honda Insight. One of the first hybrids, it had a manual transmission and got 70 mpg commuting at 70 mph.
kurupt213超过 2 年前
A transfer case with a clutch and manual shifter…is innovative enough for a patent?
iancmceachern超过 2 年前
I called this! It&#x27;s in a HN comment I placed a few weeks ago.
givemeethekeys超过 2 年前
Maybe this will drive more ICE to electric conversions.
micromacrofoot超过 2 年前
why would anyone ever pay for this? the simplicity of going from a ICE to an EV is a huge benefit
snshn超过 2 年前
People naturally seem to crave struggle. Probably part of the mating game, can&#x27;t find any other easy explanation.