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Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

345 点作者 pr0zac超过 2 年前

39 条评论

cmrdporcupine超过 2 年前
Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots.<p>Far less important of an example, but I was just put in &quot;Facebook jail&quot; for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y&#x27;know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it&#x27;s because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefore I&#x27;m a pervert.<p>Sadly it was the &quot;appeal&quot; I submitted that got me blocked. Presumably by a &quot;human&quot;, but who knows.<p>Before I appealed they were simply going to not show the picture. Appealing got me in &quot;trouble.&quot; That might be even <i>worse</i> than the original misclassification. On top of that, if I was <i>actually</i> a &quot;community standards&quot; violator who posted potential child exploitation imagery, I&#x27;m not sure how a 24-hour ban on activity on Facebook is of any use, either? Except I&#x27;m terrified to imagine a world where Meta might have called police on me based on the output of a neural network image classification.<p>Others have said but I&#x27;ll say it again: This kind of business doesn&#x27;t scale ethically. You can&#x27;t have billions of people on a bulletin board. It doesn&#x27;t work. Moderation is essential to modern communication. But you can&#x27;t do moderation automatically or at scale and in a universal way.<p>Very dark patterns emerge the moment you go FAANG scale and toss algorithms tuning for advertising and &quot;engagement&quot; into the mix, and attempt to do so with the help of computers.<p>&quot;Sad&quot; as it is, we will need to &quot;retreat&quot; back into smaller forums and BBSs where communities self-police.<p>Facebook has infiltrated so many aspects of society. Want to interact with the parents from the local school your kids go to? You have to do that on Facebook. Event announcements? Keeping in touch with your distant aunt? Facebook.<p>If something like Facebook is really a universal utility, it will have to be put under public administration; like the post office. But clearly, that isn&#x27;t going to happen and would have other problems.<p>I am going to have to find some other way to engage with old friends and family.<p>Frank Herbert had some intuition with his whole &quot;Butlerian Jihad&quot; thing.
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piokoch超过 2 年前
The problem is that no automatic method we have now will catch context. There is a difference between &quot;Jews were murdered by Germans during war&quot; and &quot;Jews destroyed German economy before the war&quot; that will not be recognized by any machine we have nowadays. The first is true, the second is bullshit, how algorithm can now this?<p>More, even if Facebook employees humans to do moderation still for some contractor from Asia &quot;Jews destroyed German economy before the war&quot; might not be easy to verify. For a contractor maybe Jews did that, who cares, I have 20 seconds to moderate this and move to other post. The same way if I was asked to moderate some historical details about India-Pakistan conflict or other historical facts about Asia, Africa I have no knowledge about at all.<p>I was reading quite a lot recently about war in Angola and still I have doubts which side was &quot;good&quot; and which was &quot;bad&quot;, besides that people who lived there were hurt in the history like almost no other nation.<p>Even worst. Some, especially historical, facts are judged from different perspective. For instance in Poland Napoleon Bonaparte is a mythologized person that brought hope to Polish hearts to get back their homeland [1]. From the point of view of someone from Austria or Italy, well, Napoleon is considered to be far from hero.<p>We don&#x27;t have to go back that far in the history. US intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq can be seen differently depending on somebody views.<p>How to moderate all this?<p>[1] Fun fact: not a big surprise that Napoleon didn&#x27;t give a crap about Poland, he even refused to give them a proper King at the short time he could (he has chosen some Saxon prince). At the end, when Napoleon lost, remains of Polish military units were sent to Haiti to help France to maintain their colonies. Many Polish soldiers died from tropical illnesses there, many joined Haitians as they saw that those people were fighting for their freedom like Poles were.
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bwb超过 2 年前
I was just talking to an author who published an ad on Facebook for their sci fi book. They had the word &quot;beat&quot; in the ad. The FB algo said that words intills people to violence, banned her account for 2 months, and kept all the ad money.<p>Funny enough, her book is about the dangers of an algorithm-based AI supersystem...<p>Facebook is the worst.
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rthomas6超过 2 年前
This is like the modern day version of not being able to search for Moby Dick on my high school&#x27;s library computer.
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ThrowawayTestr超过 2 年前
The real issue here isn&#x27;t that an algorithm flagged it, but that a &quot;human&quot; reviewed it and upheld the ban. Either a human didn&#x27;t actually review the film or there&#x27;s a serious lack of training.
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obayesshelton超过 2 年前
This is because Facebook is a Publisher. They will never admit it but FB&#x2F;META can decide what users can see. This is the what a Publisher does.<p>The issue we have is that if you let the users decide what is shown on any platform it would be quite a mess.
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edwnj超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve been working with Alex for just over a year now. He’s never political, super nice guy, focused on creating beautiful art.<p>This is a major blow to the team. If your not backed by Sony or Paramount, ads (especially in the first week) can be the deciding factor in whether you make it or not..<p>When he told me what happened, I refused to believe him &quot;There is no way they banned you over blue eyes&quot;. Unlike Alex, I&#x27;m extremely cynical about censorship &amp; social justice politics but even I couldn&#x27;t accept they would do something this asinine.
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hatzalam超过 2 年前
Myself and at least one of my friends have been harassed by an Instagram account whose name is &quot;white_soupremacy&quot;. They seemingly have no content, and the sole purpose is to harass&#x2F;troll other accounts. I reported this account to IG, but since the spelling is cheeky itself, it wasn&#x27;t flagged as hate speech. Furthermore, IG didn&#x27;t even give me an option to have a manual review of the account. I DMed someone I know that works at Meta, gave them all of the relevant information, but the account is STILL up even after a PM at Meta submitted an internal report. Something is deeply broken in that system.
Aulig超过 2 年前
My ad account got randomly shut down a few days ago too. Was reapproved after review but never was I given a reason.<p>I hate that big companies can get away with this.
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dreen超过 2 年前
I wonder if marketers could start exploiting this. Get something obviously innocent banned in a stupid way by algo, then use the outrage effect for promotion. They already kinda did this with people destroying stuff of companies that made some statements, this seems like the next step.
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lbriner超过 2 年前
There still seem to be some many basics that FB and YouTube get wrong with their &quot;automatic&quot; video moderation.<p>Use people&#x27;s &quot;report&quot; button clicks as an early indicator that something should be looked at - a big flag.<p>Look at certain words or phrases that are either unambiguously bad or possibly like &quot;kill&quot; or &quot;why I hate ...&quot; - a medium flag<p>Phrases that are less certain, = a small flag.<p>Block some things proactively, moderate others, react to the others as they are reported. I don&#x27;t think people are bothered that bad stuff gets posted as much as these companies not doing anything about it when it is reported. If 1000 people flag a video, up to the top of the list. If the flagging is malicious, then downgrade the reputation of the accounts that flagged it. If new accounts upload stuff, rate-limit it in some way etc.<p>I know I am making it sound really easy but with how ever many 1000 Developers, it shouldn&#x27;t be impossible for someone like FB to do this much better.
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BrainVirus超过 2 年前
This is not an exception. This is the norm. All major social media platforms operate under the assumption that it&#x27;s better to ban 100 innocent people than to let one &quot;bad&quot; person publish something. The scale of censorship is ming-boggling. The scale of denial and ignorance about censorship on HN is even more astounding.<p>The big lie of online censorship is that controversial cases where most people think the person &quot;deserves&quot; to be banned are unrelated and totally separate from cases like this one, where it&#x27;s obvious the ban is preposterous to anyone possessing common sense. <i>They are directly related.</i> They are created by the same systems built under the same assumptions with the same mentality.<p>This is not going to be fixed by &quot;better&quot; algorithms, because it&#x27;s not an issue with the quality of the algorithms in the firs place. The algorithms <i>seem</i> low-quality to you because you&#x27;re judging them by a standard the company running them didn&#x27;t use.
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Zealotux超过 2 年前
The reason is the movie being titled &quot;Beautiful Blue Eyes&quot;, we live in a time of pure insanity.
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fullshark超过 2 年前
These type of editorial &#x2F; advertising approval decisions happened all the time before the internet took over media. Just FB&#x2F;Twitter gets crucified when they do it because they pretend to not be publishers but utilities.<p>Time to admit all these hosting sites are just publishers that use ML models as editors and their users as contributors and section 230 needs to be re-written to account for it.
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yuan43超过 2 年前
I can only hope that Facebook follows this policy to the letter now and into the future. In fact, it would be a gift to humanity to widen the scope to any an all content deemed offensive to anyone. Ban it all.<p>Nothing will hasten the downfall of the monstrosity that Facebook has become faster that the strictest possible adherence to and advancement of this policy.
etchalon超过 2 年前
This will get overturned shortly due to press attention.<p>Which, sadly, is the only way large scale network moderation can work.<p>Get it &quot;mostly&quot; right, but often wrong.<p>In most of the cases you get it wrong, only a few people will notice. You&#x27;ll never hear about it.<p>Occasionally, you&#x27;ll get it so wrong a lot of people notice and you will hear about it. Then you can fix it.<p>Rinse and repeat.
liampulles超过 2 年前
Why not put the power in the hands of the users? If a person does not want to see a film that deals with race (generally), let them go and flip a switch in their settings to hide these from their view (and similar for whatever other subject may be of potential concern).
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chrisbrandow超过 2 年前
Bizarre that they stuck with the ban after an appeal. Seems like a pretty obvious thing to fix
croes超过 2 年前
So what skin color can a person with blue eyes have?<p>Every possible.
benj111超过 2 年前
We really need to stop thinking about social networking sites as private companies, and think about them as the public spaces they actually are. It isn&#x27;t good for society for a few companies to have a strangle hold on what can be said online.<p>I do kind of feel for them in some ways because you have different nations with different norms and laws, but the answer isn&#x27;t some lowest common denominator, and ridding the web of anything, anyone may find objectionable.
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Dr_ReD超过 2 年前
We shouldn&#x27;t accept this dystopia heads down. We all should call for regulation to stop this enormous companies and their algorithms, from treating everyone else as insignificant rounding errors.
darthrupert超过 2 年前
Recently Farcebook has started recommending incredibly toxic anti-SJW shit to me for no apparent reason. Either they turned the &quot;let&#x27;s incite toxicity&quot; knob to 11 or somebody is seriously abusing them.
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prvc超过 2 年前
Title (and headline of TFA) is misleading, as Facebook didn&#x27;t ban a film, it rejected a user from using its ads program based on the film&#x27;s title. Will be interesting to see if the lawsuit goes anywhere.
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Overtonwindow超过 2 年前
Does anyone know if these decisions are made by U.S. based checkers, or is it outsourced? When FB does something so asinine like this I must consider that it’s a horrible cubicle farm in S.E. Asia.
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shabbatt超过 2 年前
Book burning used to be a thing. Now its content moderation.
jleyank超过 2 年前
I assume they ban pretty much everything about the period 1925 to 1945 as race, national origin and probably gender was real prominent. And talk about the violence…
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wellbehaved超过 2 年前
Censorship morons on parade. Obviously we need to return to a First Amendment ethos. Obviously we never should have abandoned it in the first place.
fredgrott超过 2 年前
Honest question,<p>What would happen if we assume that those with low self esteem self-select to match the toxicity in their head in choices of social media consumption and choice of social media platforms?<p>Somewhat the kissing-cousin to the observation that those 1-percenters on social media that create such as GaryVee do not use sm platforms like the bottom 99 percent.<p>I.E., SM platforms are a mirror in showing that we still have somewhat a broken humanity society structure.
tlogan超过 2 年前
The biggest problem with this AI approach is that actual bad ads (scam, spreading hate, etc.) are getting thru.
NayamAmarshe超过 2 年前
Facebook and Censorship are synonymous
aurelien超过 2 年前
They should think to bans themselves for dystopian mechanisms
LatteLazy超过 2 年前
First we demanded they censor things. Then we got upset they censored things.<p>Turns out, there isn&#x27;t one global human standard on what is worthy of being censored. And this is one reason people only think they support censorship, when they really don&#x27;t...
Pulcinella超过 2 年前
This is basically the ad for the movie now. I’ve never heard of in until now, but now I’m interested.<p>“Come see the anti-Nazi movie Facebook doesn’t want you to know about!”
psuresh超过 2 年前
&#x27;Bigteched&#x27;
waffletower超过 2 年前
Facebook has an explicit policy regarding Holocaust denial content: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;about.fb.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2020&#x2F;10&#x2F;removing-holocaust-denial-content&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;about.fb.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2020&#x2F;10&#x2F;removing-holocaust-denial-...</a> Given their human-reviewed decision to &quot;permanently restrict&quot; the advertising of &quot;Beautiful Blue Eyes&quot;, this policy appears to be a disingenuous public relations stance. As director Joshua Newton contends, Facebook&#x27;s tunnel vision adherence to their keyword flagging algorithm acts as a significant agent for the Holocaust denial movement.
hfbff超过 2 年前
&quot;This is the action of haters – and there are sadly many in our society – who seek to damage the film in order to trivialize the Holocaust&quot; Newton told Rolling Stone at the Toronto Film Festival.<p>There are a lot of stupid things Facebook is doing, but why, of all things, would you accuse them of trivializing the Holocaust? If anything, this kind of accusations (using the Holocaust as a defense for everything) trivializes the Holocaust.
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hrbf超过 2 年前
&gt; Mark Zuckerberg has created a monster that has no oversight.<p>You don’t say? I’m shocked I tell you.<p>Hopefully this will at least generate more buzz for the movie than Facebook could have.
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FunnyBadger超过 2 年前
With the recently court decision against social media company censorship, this may become a major legal problem for Facebook.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailywire.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;fifth-circuit-deals-huge-legal-blow-to-social-media-censorship-upholds-texas-law-banning-it" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailywire.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;fifth-circuit-deals-huge-lega...</a><p>We can only hope!!
job_suche超过 2 年前
I mean, that is also the first thought I had when I read the title, even before delving into the article. If instead of &quot;beautiful blue eyes&quot; it was &quot;silky smooth pale white skin&quot;, would it then be different?<p>For once I think Facebook is right. Poor choice of a film title, that, especially considering the theme of the film.
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