Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradually standardizing on a way to take all the displays/touchscreens in a vehicle and let them be run by Carplay seems like the future. Eventually, they can start handing more and more of the software side (not their specialty) off to people cellphones via some interface, particularly around media. As the ubiquiti of the M1/M2 type chip is found in all of our pockets (embedded ML silicon), the car companies will no longer have to actually embed it in a vehicle as an add on. Plugging in your phone with an M1/M2 type chip will unlock Siri or similar AI functionality in the vehicle. Sure it will drive without it, just like it does now, but it wont be 'cool' and have all the assist, nav, and media functionality everyone wants.

I don't get why Apple's user experience keeps being repeated as "second to none". It really depends on what you are doing and used to. I personally find Android easier to use than iOS, but maybe I would feel differently if I haven't been using it for a while.

Given the number of times I&#x27;ve seen a reported, verified bug in OS X be &quot;fixed&quot; by hiding the bug from the public tracker and marking it &quot;will not fix,&quot; I would have a hard time ever trusting a car made by Apple.<p>Apple also makes their products to be disposable, seemingly as part of the culture, while a well-made electric car can run to a million miles over 50+ years. That&#x27;s a very different build philosophy.<p>The key to me is that Apple presents the <i>image</i> of perfect fit and finish--beyond that their products are not problematic in a lot of ways (ability to modify them, or expand them, or extend them in ways that Apple doesn&#x27;t approve of...). Some of their tech is cool, don&#x27;t get me wrong. But it&#x27;s far from perfect.<p>I would imagine an Apple car that only supports Apple Maps, Apple Music&#x2F;Podcasts, and Siri and will only connect to iOS devices...and that costs twice as much as the Tesla for the base model, and more if you want a reasonable range. Pandora? Spotify? Waze? Meh. Sorry. Oh, and don&#x27;t forget monthly fees for navigation; probably more like the $36&#x2F;month of the Audi EV than the free navigation for the Tesla.<p>I&#x27;m sure there&#x27;s a market for it. There are a lot of people who love Apple and who have money.

A full Apple Car has always seemed unrealistic to me. Cars are a fundamentally different industry then consumer electronics and software. Apple would be starting from scratch, and facing a lot of entrenched competition with huge budgets and infrastructure.<p>And for what? What could Apple do that GM, Toyota, or Tesla couldn&#x27;t? Maybe a better UX for the dashboard. And while many car UXs are absolutely terrible, improving them isn&#x27;t some insurmountable challenge for existing manufacturers. And besides, Apple could just expand carplay and partner with car manufacturers, which seems like it would work better for everyone involved.

Apple doesn&#x27;t get into low margin businesses. They get into an adjacent business. A prime example is TVs. There is no Apple TV set. There is AppleTV, a high margin add on for any TV with HDMI that makes it &quot;just work&quot;.<p>They had the chance to buy a cellular carrier, but chose not to, because it&#x27;s low margin. Instead they make a phone that works on any carrier.<p>Cars are a low margin business. But a car add-on could be a high margin business. They already have CarPlay, but I can see them making a hardware add-on for cars.

I think people focus too much on the actual car in this speculation. What about the service? Apple is really, really good at finding industries full of bullshit (computers in the 80&#x27;s, mobile phones in the early 2000&#x27;s) and saying, &quot;okay, here&#x27;s a slightly better looking product, with fewer features, and no more bullshit.&quot;<p>The vehicle market is full of bullshit. Tesla took the same tactic and has knocked it down considerably, but there&#x27;s still the rest of the market.

The iBug will probably be good for some people but horrible for others.<p>&quot;It just works&quot; is a fine motto, but a lie. Devices often need intervention to work properly or to work at all. Laptops and phones generally require a <i>lot</i> less intervention than cars. Some of us are happy to outsource that labour to others. Some of us are fascinated with how things work and prefer to at least <i>try</i> fixing things ourselves. I have learned from personal experience that Apple is outright hostile to the latter form of folk.<p>I fully expect an Apple car will have all manner of non-standard screws, fasteners, and parts. It will be technically possible for third party mechanics to deal with, but letting one breathe on your iBug will void the warranty. Just opening the hood will, no doubt, require special tools and break multiple tamper-proof warranty-voiding seals.<p>If you&#x27;re happy taking your iBug into an Apple store every time you hear a new noise, you&#x27;ll be fine with an iBug. If you&#x27;re the sort who wants to pop the hood and try to track down the problem yourself, then beware!

This is a disappointing read, zero insight into objectives beyond an EV for end consumers.<p>There is so much more to consider - progressing Carplay integration, demand for processing&#x2F;sensing, partnerships, building knowledge, etc. Take the Sony Vision S for example, that was never intended to be a produced vehicle.

It’s funny how Apple CarPlay is basically the Android of the car world. While Tesla is more like IOS&#x2F;iPhone, controlling both the hardware and software.

I wish Toyota would partner with Apple for their internal maps, screen, controls, etc. Toyota seems to have a major problem with intuitive usability (especially for my parents who are in their 80s).<p>Toyota is the largest car company in the world and makes the most reliable vehicles in the world, but they need that extra touch to take them to the next level.<p>Just as I would never by a phone that is not an iPhone, or a laptop that is not a MacBook, I would never buy a car that is not a Toyota. But Toyota does have some room for improvement.<p>Also, an Apple-Toyota partnership would make Teslas look pathetic in comparison.

There have been a <i>lot</i> of failed new car company startups. Like the Tucker, the Bricklin, the DeLorean. It&#x27;s really, really, really hard to create a new car company. The usual problem is way, way underestimating the amount of capital it will take.<p>Tesla is an amazing company because they achieved it.<p>Apple&#x27;s expertise is in making software and tiny electrical gadgets. How they thought that would translate into expertise in making cars is beyond me. It makes about as much sense as diversifying into making jet engines.

Does anyone really think Apple is building a car? I don&#x27;t and I never did. It makes no sense. It&#x27;s not an industry one can just &quot;switch into.&quot; The capital requirements for owning a car factory are ridiculous and it&#x27;s not something you can outsource. There is zero crossover between consumer entertainment devices and the car business, as evidenced by the poor state of tech in cars! This is not something Apple can fix by making cars.

Disney said no to buying Teitter because it would be a bad look, is a chaotic &amp; messy property to acquire. It would be hard to manage &amp; sully their clean image.<p>Associating yourself with automobiles doesnt feel exactly the same, but there&#x27;s a similar jist to me. Cars have some very obvious bad impact on this world. Supporting &amp; selling them is a pain. Trying to keep yourself as a loved respected treasured company would be much more difficult, quite likely impossible.

Automotive EE here… any article that talks about Tesla’s financials even indirectly and it does not immediately mention how much money they make by selling carbon credits back to GM Ford and Stellantis can pay immediately be disregarded.<p>A casual look at the numbers doesn’t explain much. But if you look at that 7% margin, and realize that Tesla is nearly doubling that with carbon credit sales which are 100% margin. It changes the picture.<p>Anyone else has a car they make 7% minus buying credits to be able to sell more in California. Tesla sells a car they make more. Without the carbon program Tesla would drastically have to change its model, which will be interesting because everyone is selling their own EVs and won’t need to buy as many credits soon.<p>It makes no sense for Apple to get into vehicles for 20 reasons, this is just one. They’re way too late.

HN seems like the sort of audience who can tell me. This is a serious question: Why would anybody listen to Jean-Louis Gassée?<p>What I see is a career of failures, at Apple, at Be, at Palm, JLG was dealt good hands and some bad hands but played each indifferently. Did I miss something important ?

The Polestar 2 feels like what an &#x27;Apple car&#x27; would be like, to me. It seems to have a giant Android tablet in the middle console. Looks pretty smooth and tasteful overall but I can&#x27;t summon up any excitement for it.

A mild problem that Apple has is that they seem to spend a lot of time solving the sort of problems that a highly paid VP from California would have.<p>Being frustrated by the driving experience and trying to solve that problem is in that category, being focused on the sort of annoyances that people spending huge amounts of time driving to Cupertino would have.<p>Meanwhile city governments around the US and the world are trying very hard to <i>reduce</i> the amount of cars on the road.<p>Would be nice if Apple were thinking ahead and not contributing to the entrenchment of this 20th century technology.

I found the announced enhancements to car play very interesting. To my understanding, it aims for replacing most of the user-facing software in cars. This is very tempting for car manufacturers, not to compete with car play, but just embrace it. It almost looks as if car play is to become the Windows of the car industry - instead of trying to come up with your own solution, just install the most widely used software available on the market. That could be a big step for Apple and hugely profitable, in the same way Windows made Microsoft into the giant it is.<p>It just could be that. But that would depend on the car manufacturers giving up on their own software so easily and it would be a completely new strategy for Apple. They love to control the whole stack. Even in cases, where they entered a market with a collaboration - the early iPod Phones come to my mind - they later switched to their own product.<p>Also, the rumor about an Apple car does keep coming back. And they spend a lot of money on what ever they are doing. So while the play on just Car Play might be strong, they do have something brewing in case car manufacturers don&#x27;t just jump onto it. My favorite theory though is: they are building something which will be a &quot;car&quot; but as different from current cars as the iPhone was from mobile phones of its day and age. I would be really curious to see that.

Possible CarPlay expansion aside--I can&#x27;t even summon up a good devil&#x27;s advocate argument for this.<p>I was having a discussion over the weekend over where Apple goes next with respect to hardware. I think my money is on AR <i>if</i> the many technical limitations can be overcome. There are also the social issues but as with many other things, I suspect a lot of people would be willing to put up with even more ubiquitous cameras in exchange for convenience whether you like it or not.

I don&#x27;t even think about buying cars less than 10 years old or so. I have actually had better luck doing this than when I used to buy cars new or nearly-new. It weeds out the lemons and the owners who don&#x27;t take care of their cars.<p>Let someone else take the depreciation and find out how they hold up in the long term. Does Apple have any history of supporting its hardware for that long?

I don’t see the point of them selling a car. Expanding CarPlay is more realistic. Let the automakers produce the vehicle code and apple takes care of the screens and what nots. I’d love to be able to build iOS apps for my car. Though as someone who values consumer and ownership rights, it might not be a great idea after all.

The competitive advantages of Apple are a strong brand, a huge stack of cash, world-class software and silicon engineers and second-to-none operations to build and sell millions of high-tech devices.<p>They can make a car if they want to make a car. They could also make nice planes and boats...<p>The question is, how competitive can they be in this market?<p>I think they are too fat.

I think did an &quot;Apple TV&quot; to their car efforts.<p>Originally, Apple desired to make the Apple TV (hardware) the complete replacement for all your TV viewing needs. And for all the streaming services to just be dumb content pipes connected through a common &#x2F; consistent Apple TV (app&#x2F;software) UI.<p>Then Apple realized the Netflix&#x27;s of the world are not going to give up the user experience, let alone the direct relationship with the user.<p>So Apple then pivots by making Apple TV just the platform for some other company to deliver their stream service through (like the Apple CarPlay).<p>They then refine their strategy to come around to realizing, they need to make their own content (the new Apple CarPlay HUD &#x2F; instrumentation).

What if Apple moved sideways and got into the electric motor scooter market instead and displacing the likes of Vespa? If they keep the power low enough (no freeway driving here!) then most states wouldn&#x27;t require a special endorsement to ride it. It would be the ultimate cafe runner!<p>Hipsters, college students, high school students, and suburban folks needing to drive everywhere would love it - and it would be reducing the amount of dino fuel burning vehicles on the road. The battery could be easily removable and carried in to charge in your house&#x2F;apartment&#x2F;dorm without any special equipment. Apple could absolutely <i>kill</i> this market.

If it&#x27;s something they officially give up on: Good. There&#x27;s no sense in trying to further extend mega caps. If there were really a litany of issues with how vehicles were made, one would expect investment to appear in research and development that addresses those specific issues, not vehicles appearing out of capital groundswells from disasters.<p>It&#x27;s alarming that the media doesn&#x27;t call this what it is: a sell signal, and a clear sign that stock buybacks, collusion, and scared FTC beauraucrats who aren&#x27;t willing to throw down the antitrust flag are making a sick economy sicker.

The Apple Helicopter was a great idea! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.tumblr.com&#x2F;tumblr_lh1a53zaGV1qasgpw.gif" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.tumblr.com&#x2F;tumblr_lh1a53zaGV1qasgpw.gif</a>

This may have already been said, but QNX is the underlying OS for CarPlay, and not iOS &#x2F; macOS &#x2F; *os. It has a pretty strong track record for realtime capabilities.

Off topic, I am really digging the artwork at the top of this article.<p>The bondi blue iMac, on wheels so snug in their wells they couldn’t turn more than a few degrees, standing on a white polished surface that it couldn’t drive on without unsightly black streaks, with a clearance so low it needs that polished surface to drive on. The most impractical car design, but quintessentially Apple.<p>It is part homage and part diss at the same time. I love it.

Having owned both MB and Porsche I can say I would pay for having an Apple driven, configurable dial set. That being said, the trend to replace buttons that you can feel and learn and access without thinking (looking at you Tesla) I hope there is some sanity to the design. Screens for what they are good at, buttons for normal everyday stuff!

It&#x27;s amazing to me how short-sighted many views on Apple Car are. Service is key. Apple won&#x27;t be following the model of the existing car makers. They WILL NOT sell cars direct to consumer. That&#x27;s the key insight. They will not have showrooms, sales teams, or public service centers. You won&#x27;t buy their cars directly at all.<p>Instead, they are going for the end goal: Fully autonomous electric vehicles on-demand. This is the holy grail Tesla and others are going for. I don&#x27;t know why this isn&#x27;t obvious to everyone. Most of us are still stuck in the old paradigm. Apple is thinking bigger.<p>The Apple Car will not have a steering wheel. Complete Level 5 autonomy is not some add-on feature, it is the key enabler that allows the entire product the exist. You don&#x27;t need public service centers, because Apple will manage their own fleet, manage their own charging infrastructure, etc.<p>The user experience is simple. You tell Siri I want to go to X by X time. The car arrives, it drops you off. That&#x27;s the end. No bullshit. Fewer features. Less hassle. And in the end, less cost for the end user. The perfect UX. That&#x27;s the Apple vision.<p>Note, this is also Tesla&#x27;s vision. But the other automakers don&#x27;t see this yet, and as a result will likely be bankrupt within 10-15 years.

Oh, no new news. At first it seemed this was going to be &quot;Apple cancels car project&quot;. But no.

What if Apple made a 1500 dollar electric Mini (car)?<p>Might just work.<p>I have seen some comments here saying that all the money in the world can&#x27;t buy you a better mobile phone. If Apple is able to generalize that to another product class, the world might really change for the better.

Watching the code interview with Jonny Ive, the part where Kara asks him about UI in cars, it feels like Apple is working on a car.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;sdvzYtgmIjs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;sdvzYtgmIjs</a>

&gt; a company who’s sense of fit and finish, its attention to the user’s experience is second to none<p>Lol. At a minimum, I’d rephrase that as:<p>&gt; a company who’s sense of fit and finish, its attention to the user’s experience is antagonistic

only apple car i wanna hear about is the one lowly worm from busytown drives

I always liked OSX but an Apple Car is literally something I would never buy. Their walled garden manipulative BS is the exact opposite of what I want in a vehicle.

Anything can happen so these could also be wildly successful items in our future<p>&lt;fun&gt;A phone from Mercedes&lt;&#x2F;fun&gt;<p>&lt;fun&gt;A CPU from Ferrari&lt;&#x2F;fun&gt;

They could have bought Tesla, once. Too late now.

What is the point of this article? I guess it had good engagement here but ultimately doesn’t provide anything of value. Apple will get into the car business if it can offer something better. Either way the product will be wonderful if they do, and we know they won’t abandon it too. So if they get in we can see iteratively improving product that is baseline better than many&#x2F;most. Does it happen? Who knows?

Sure it crashes all the time, but it looks really sleek while doing so :D

Apple should buy comma.ai and turn iPhones into autonomous drivers.

&quot;(nearly)&quot;

A suggestion for Apple.<p>1. Apple is worth $2.44 trillion USD; pay off the whole $240 billion USD debt owed by the Philippines.<p>2. Establish Apple HQ facilities in the Philippines and employ the vast majority of the country&#x27;s talented software engineers there.<p>3. Take advantage of the cheap labour, low costs, and high standard of living to ride the wave of unending profit.<p>This is how you turn things around and switch the lightbulb.