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The 'attention economy' corrupts science

323 点作者 respinal超过 2 年前

37 条评论

AlbertCory超过 2 年前
The attention economy corrupts everything it touches: not just science, but journalism, politics, and even childhood.<p>Being famous used to be rather difficult. Of course there were exceptions (writing <i>To Kill a Mockingbird</i>, being the guy who dove into the river to save a drowning child, for example), but for the most part, you were going to live your life known only to the few hundred or thousand people you met personally.<p>Even though you <i>could</i> pick up a phone and dial anyone in the world who owned a phone, you wouldn&#x27;t, and if you did, they&#x27;d hang up on you. Now you can force your idiotic, or great ideas onto the screens of millions of people you&#x27;ll never meet.<p>Is that a good or a bad thing? It&#x27;s certainly bad in some ways, and this is one of them.
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jostmey超过 2 年前
Having spent over 10 years in a university and been a professor, the problem isn’t attention seeking behavior but a lack of accountability. For example, you can literally make up any data you want in a grant proposal and so long as it sounds right no one can or will double check it. The foundation of academia is rotting, but maybe it’s always been like this
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viridian超过 2 年前
What most people fail to realize is that fundamentally, most principle investigators, the people who actually run the research world, are primarily fundraisers. Their day-to-day job is a mix of grant and proposal writing, relationship building&#x2F;organizational meetings, and checking in on their postdocs, candidates, and lab techs.<p>Your main goal, as a PI, is to keep your lab running, and thus research flowing, by any means possible. For some PIs, this means milking every drop of available talent and time out of your doctoral candidates, and is the most common cause of the horror stories you hear about people leaving academia. On the other end of the extreme, they can embed themselves so deeply in fundraising with private or public capital that their lab staff don&#x27;t see them for more than 15-30 minutes a week, because they are essentially living their lives hopping from sales meeting to sales meeting.<p>This wouldn&#x27;t be a problem if the job of the PI was explicitly meant to be that of a salesman, but the actual role of a PI is to define the research being done. They draft the hypotheses, the expected impact, etc, because that is their intended role, but in reality these will always be constructed in a way that makes it easier for the PI to solicit funding.<p>It&#x27;s impossible for the attention economy to not play into the research funding loop then, because every set of eyeballs is another potential revenue source for future research, or a tool to justify growing the footprint of your lab. I wouldn&#x27;t go so far as to call the superstructure corrupting of science though, not in those words. I&#x27;d say it forces science to be mission focused, where the mission is a subtle negotiation between the people funding the research and the people performing it, and often times the person with the capital lands much closer to their ideal.
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syncerr超过 2 年前
Attention is not the problem; it&#x27;s the lack of accountability. Social platforms care about engagement, not quality of content (there&#x27;s virtually no mechanism to incentivize content meets any standard of quality other than what can be measured in the moment).
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sinenomine超过 2 年前
Why go to such a long tangent, when you could make a solid case about the legacy grant distribution system[1] corrupting science for decades? It is as close to funding and career success as it gets.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;newscience.org&#x2F;nih&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;newscience.org&#x2F;nih&#x2F;</a>
Gatsky超过 2 年前
Sometimes I am left to wonder about the widespread criticism of science. Slow progress, broken publishing and career progression, terrible working conditions, prestige farming, poor mental health and exploitation of students, fake data, statistical warcrimes, bullying, sexism, racism, elitism, harrassment...<p>The question is, does any of this matter on a historical scale? Is Science doomed to fail? In 200 years, our descendants will probably look back at us with the same mix of condescension and slightly horrified fascination with which we view our 19th century counterparts. Our stupid scientific publishing system will be viewed similarly to the plumbing in London in the 1850s. The chimney sweep and the graduate student suffer similar plights. It is terrible, immoral, we should do better, but then this is always the case.<p>On one level, our future descendants should be grateful - we eradicated small pox (that alone would be enough really, an unprecedented gift to all future humanity, a boundless alleviation of suffering), discovered antibiotics, greatly improved child mortality, invented quantum mechanics and relativity, drastically increased our computational capacity, left the planet for the first time, and connected almost everyone in the world. All of this under conditions considerably less ideal than they are today, despite still being far from desirable. Maybe that&#x27;s all that matters?<p>Science being Science will sort itself out most likely. We should mainly try to reduce the human suffering involved, and allow greater diveristy in how and where research is done.
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wanderingmind超过 2 年前
&quot; Scientists list media exposure counts on résumés, and many PhD theses now include the number of times a candidate’s work has appeared in the popular science press.&quot; This is a mandatory requirement to a EB1A green card. Maybe the government can do something from its side to reduce the fluff.
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Fomite超过 2 年前
&quot;The attention a scientist’s work gains from the public now plays into its perceived value. Scientists list media exposure counts on résumés, and many PhD theses now include the number of times a candidate’s work has appeared in the popular science press. Science has succumbed to the attention economy.&quot;<p>Sitting on a tenure and promotion committee at an R1 university, this type of stuff is just as likely to torpedo you as it is to boost you.
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chiefalchemist超过 2 年前
&gt; &quot;Science and scientists are part of society. Neither sit on a lofty perch that makes them impervious to societal shifts.&quot;<p>Ironically, this is not the general public&#x27;s perception. Even more ironic is the fact that celebrity &quot;scientists&quot; like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson are fond of pushing the &quot;science is better than the rest of us&quot; narrative.
jscipione超过 2 年前
I disagree with the premise of the article, interconnectedness is a great benefit to science. Yes there are inequities, but that also means more collaboration, and more scrutiny. Science is deeply corrupt but for other reasons such as a lot of money in certain areas of interest, pressure from governments and ivory tower mentality.
jongjong超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s nice that this has finally come to the public&#x27;s awareness. For a few years, I was afraid that the attention economy would be an &#x27;invisible hand&#x27; which would have a significant impact on everything but which nobody would notice.<p>People used to be uncomfortable discussing &#x27;attention&#x27; or &#x27;the media&#x27; - I suspect because it was too abstract or not relevant enough to them - Now that many people are struggling to get any attention for their work, attention and the media seem more relevant.<p>When someone publishes the best work of their career and it receives less recognition than their early work, it sometimes makes them wonder what has changed.
xhkkffbf超过 2 年前
Well, yes, but what else can we do? Certainly we shouldn&#x27;t give out Nobel prizes on the number of like buttons clicked on TikTok, but at some point the most influential science is the science that influences the most people. Sure, it&#x27;s possible that someone has written a great paper that will be super influential in three or four hundred years, but we have no way to measure or accurately predict that. So we&#x27;re stuck with the citation counts and the votes for best paper at the conferences. It&#x27;s all we&#x27;ve got.
swayvil超过 2 年前
It suggests that science is an artifact of attention. That bears study. Maybe get a nice paper out of it.
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c7b超过 2 年前
&gt; Twenty-five years ago, it was projected that, in an ever-more interconnected world, money would no longer be the prime currency, attention would be.<p>While it does make for a good opening line, using a single prediction from 25 years ago that arguably worked out to <i>some</i> extent (probably not everyone prefers likes over cash), without giving any context on how many similar predictions were made in the same context, just feels a bit odd.
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alexfromapex超过 2 年前
The &quot;economy&quot; corrupts science too.
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mkl超过 2 年前
&gt; “get your science the attention it deserves.” (On Google, that search term garners nearly 500 million hits.)<p>So 500 million pages have one or more words similar to those. That&#x27;s pretty flimsy evidence. Putting quotes around it I get <i>5</i> results (not 5 million, 5), one of which is this article. I don&#x27;t doubt the overall conclusions of the article, but I do wonder how well supported some of it is.
kossTKR超过 2 年前
Having multiple family members working actively as scientists and academics i&#x27;ve been pretty blackpilled about what &quot;science&quot; actually is for the most part.<p>Off course there&#x27;s heaps of interesting papers and progress out there but at least 90% of money and time seems to be spent on politics, careerism and working actively for some disproportionally funded but &quot;profitable&quot; niche.<p>It&#x27;s get ahead in the game, &quot;earn money for investors&quot; or further some industry astroturfed cause. Also a lot of PhD&#x27;s use them to grift like cheap salesmen these days unfortunately.<p>Probably has something to do with the corporate incentive structures that have emerged.
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version_five超过 2 年前
I agree with some of the problems listed (over-hyping minor results) though personally I think the link to attention economy feels a bit contrived. There are much greater forces leading to these problems - notably the emphasis on metrics for science work (as mentioned) and politicization. This didn&#x27;t convince me the attention economy lens adds anything
nstart超过 2 年前
While this article feels true, I wish it provided more of its own researched evidence to prove the point. I went through several links and possibly the most relevant ones are &quot;Why are medical journals full of fashionable nonsense?&quot;[1] and the book &quot;Science Fictions&quot;[2].<p>Most of the other links talk about other tangentially related topics. The subheading &quot;How the attention economy corrupts science&quot; which should contain the meat actually has little to no research of its own that can convince me of the title (unless I&#x27;m willing to read the book &quot;Science Fictions&quot;). I read the article &quot;Why are medical journals full of fashionable nonsense?&quot; and found it to have a similar vibe although it had more concrete evidence. Still, the need for more than a few examples is something I feel is fair to call for. Basically, I don&#x27;t find it to fully support this original article about &quot;attention economy&quot; corrupting science.<p>Overall, I think this is quite an ironic state. The article seems to hold on to what feels like an idea that is socially popular, something we all suspect, and it presents it as true with evidence that is either vague or indirect (look, this book exists on the topic, therefore it is true). The article fails to clearly draw the differences between &quot;working hard to get attention to one&#x27;s science&quot; vs &quot;the act of getting attention is corrupting science&quot;. I&#x27;m overall unconvinced that this article really does anything much to support its premise.<p>[1] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bigthink.com&#x2F;health&#x2F;medical-journals-fashionable-nonsense&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bigthink.com&#x2F;health&#x2F;medical-journals-fashionable-non...</a><p>[2] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;us.macmillan.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;9781250222688&#x2F;sciencefictions" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;us.macmillan.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;9781250222688&#x2F;sciencefictions</a>
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iciac超过 2 年前
“What information consumes is rather obvious: it consumes the attention of its recipients. Hence a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention, and a need to allocate that attention efficiently among the overabundance of information sources that might consume it.” - Herbert Simon
rooundio超过 2 年前
Reminds me of this Science article in 2017:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;science.sciencemag.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;6354&#x2F;880.2#1504269787069" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;science.sciencemag.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;6354&#x2F;880.2#1504269...</a><p>on why scientists need social media influencers …
hoosieree超过 2 年前
Prove how much you agree with this by not discussing it on hacker news.
Animats超过 2 年前
Yes. The &quot;prestigious journals&quot; aren&#x27;t helping. Nature used to mostly cover biology, and had reviewers who understood that. Now, &quot;Nature&quot; is a brand covering a wide range of topics, badly.<p>Then there are university PR departments, who hype every little lab result into a world-changing breakthrough. This is particularly bad in energy-related areas. (I want some publication to reprint, each month, battery PR from 1, 5, and 10 years ago.)
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mbrodersen超过 2 年前
I for one am super happy that I now have access to world class talks, documentaries, and instructional videos on YouTube. Don’t complain about bad content. Instead choose to only watch the quality stuff.
O__________O超过 2 年前
At the point more than 50% of results are not reproduced and&#x2F;or reproducible — is science really science?
shswkna超过 2 年前
We have changed the environment that we live in. And in doing so, we created our own Achille’s heel. Possibly the future (or non-future) of civilisation will be the outcome of a natural selection of the fittest, of the culture that deals with this in the best way.
karaterobot超过 2 年前
&gt; Revenue from subscriptions and from authors, who pay to be published, are no longer the only profit sources.<p>It&#x27;s not obvious to me what this means. What are the other profit sources for scientific journals, and why do they depend on things like social media virality?
javajosh超过 2 年前
The problem with science is that there are too few discoveries for too many scientists. This caused the reproducibility crisis. This caused grad student overwork and abuse. It also means working scientists have had to turn to the &quot;attention economy&quot; to save themselves.<p>We forget that this notion that anyone could (and everyone should) be a scientist is really new and (ironically) quite untested idea. Well, this error mode is called a &quot;glut&quot; and it sucks for everyone involved. Maybe science is better off being either a hobby for rich weirdos (and&#x2F;or the savants that they patronize) or a game that big business keeps paying to play to secure that all-important new intellectual property. Whoever decided you could make a science factory that produces discoveries was an idiot, and now we have proof.
seydor超过 2 年前
So what can we do? As always , nothing, let&#x27;s throw our hands up in the air and pretend &#x27;it is what it is&#x27;. meanwhile, celebrity scientists keep using funds to enrich themselves
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hashtag-til超过 2 年前
The article is very insightful and explains a lot why do you get a growing number of useless inflated headlines arxiv papers trying to gather views from twitter or linkedin.
theblabblah超过 2 年前
I find these arguments kinda funny. Women have known for a long time that attention is a huge catalyst to driving their partners along their lines of perception. Their partners have been freely giving attention to women all their lives. Most of them didn&#x27;t realize it is a problem then. It is highly unlikely that they will realize it&#x27;s a problem now. After all we give it freely, nobody has a gun to your head to pay attention to your girlfriend all day or watch shitty content.
hrdwdmrbl超过 2 年前
Should we instead call it the &quot;status economy&quot;?
gerikson超过 2 年前
Absolute tautology corrupts absolutely.
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nramanand超过 2 年前
Isn&#x27;t this also related to how the vaccines-cause-autism conversation started? The study involved only had a handful of subjects (a few of which were very unqualified), and then a big important journal (The Lancet IIRC) picked it up for the novelty.<p>The article mentions attention economy as in media, TikTok, etc playing a role before &quot;community assessment.&quot; But it&#x27;s not like scientists don&#x27;t also gravitate towards the new shiny thing in their own ways.
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thghtihadanacct超过 2 年前
in all fairness, where is columbia now?
enviclash超过 2 年前
Science was already a badly governed and &quot;corrupted&quot; arena. This just adds more trash to disentangle&#x2F;deal with.
turlockmike超过 2 年前
This boils down to a fundamental question. Why do we spend any time doing science to begin with? Historically scientists were drawn to the field in order to improve human understanding of our reality. These individuals often died quite poor and unknown, but advanced us forward. Now popular science is the goal and getting huge money grants. The goal is no longer the pursuit of knowledge, it&#x27;s a money game. Like journalism. The only useful science done at the moment is at tech companies who will use it to build better products.
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