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Review of the Kinesis Advantage360 Professional

110 点作者 farslan超过 2 年前

28 条评论

maximilianroos超过 2 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why they got rid of the F-keys.<p>The keyboard is a beast; no one is using it for portability. Why make it smaller by losing a row of keys? (Do the opposite — add another couple of rows, for kicks! Moonlander adds a column [1])<p>Same for Bluetooth — I don&#x27;t get the attraction — when are you taking your giant keyboard away from your desk? If you never needed to plug it in, that would be slightly better, but it still needs to be charged. Even if it&#x27;s only a few ms of extra latency, what&#x27;s the upside?<p>This is more idiosyncratic, but I put a Magic Trackpad in the center of the Advantage2 [2] — highly recommended — so losing that center piece is worse for me.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zsa.io&#x2F;moonlander" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zsa.io&#x2F;moonlander</a><p>2: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;max_sixty&#x2F;status&#x2F;1144236070369988609" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;max_sixty&#x2F;status&#x2F;1144236070369988609</a>
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fbdab103超过 2 年前
No function keys is a complete deal breaker for me. I do not care about layers or whatever ergonomic arguments that arise. I want to be able to mash F5 and start the debugger whenever I need it.<p>Also, $439 is a very stiff price. I thought my Freestyle Pro at ~$150 was already luxurious.
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brenainn超过 2 年前
Looks good! A customizable split keyboard was one of the better investments I&#x27;ve made recently. No more hand pain after my work day.<p>Retail options like the Kinesis and Moonlander are perfectly fine products, but there is also an abundance of (typically open-source) keyboard designs these days:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;diimdeep&#x2F;awesome-split-keyboards" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;diimdeep&#x2F;awesome-split-keyboards</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;golem.hu&#x2F;boards&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;golem.hu&#x2F;boards&#x2F;</a><p>Note that anything that runs QMK and Pro Micro MCUs can generally be made wireless using ZMK and nice!nano MCUs.<p>Be warned that it&#x27;s a deep rabbit hole. Personally I use and really enjoy the TBK Mini:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Bastardkb&#x2F;TBK-Mini" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Bastardkb&#x2F;TBK-Mini</a>
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crazygringo超过 2 年前
There are exactly three main things ergonomic keyboards need in order to be correctly ergonomic:<p>1) Split (so the distance is adjustable for your body, depending on your shoulder width)<p>2) Two axes of adjustable tilt (sides tented down, far side angled down)<p>3) Palm rests for when not typing<p>It&#x27;s shocking to me how many ergonomic keyboards get the first two wrong -- they&#x27;re not split, and&#x2F;or the axes aren&#x27;t adjustable at all or only one is.<p>This keyboard is split (yay!) but appears to be adjustable only along one axis (boo).
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sickcodebruh超过 2 年前
I’ve been an Advantage user for almost eight years and I can’t imagine using anything else. I type with it on my lap and it feels perfectly comfortable so I probably won’t rush to buy this model. But if I did, the portability would be an immediate win. The original Advantage is massive and its comfortable typing shape makes for an awkward size in backpacks. This would be a huge win for any Advantage user who likes to work from different desks.
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perrylaj超过 2 年前
I entertained buying the advantage (maybe 2?) before ultimately buying a keyboardio model 1. The main things I didn&#x27;t like about the advantage was the fixed geometry and small&#x2F;awkward function keys. Had this been out, it would have been strongly considered, looks like it addressed my primary concerns.<p>That said, I loved the keyboardio so much that I recently received the updated model 100, and love it more than the original. The hot swappable switches are great, and the layout is really efficient for me (admittedly, took a frustrating few weeks to get proficient).<p>Knowing what I do now, I&#x27;d personally choose the keyboardio 100 over the kinesis 360, but I&#x27;m glad there is another flexible high quality split kb on the market.
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Labo333超过 2 年前
I got the Kinesis Advantage2 last year. I got used to it, almost reaching my laptop typing speed. But I actually don&#x27;t find it super comfortable.<p>To be honest, no keyboard matches the comfort of my macbook with the keyboard being under the level of the palms.<p>I also more recently got the keychron K3 (low profile) and realized that the thing I don&#x27;t like in the KA2 is my wrists being locked.<p>I think it&#x27;s not enough to consider a keyboard without a complete setup, including where the hands &#x2F; arms will rest and where the mouse is positioned.<p>For example even the distance of my laptop stand makes a huge difference because it affects how far my keyboard can be from my torso, hence whether where my arms rest on the table.
Findecanor超过 2 年前
The Advantage360 feels like Kinesis&#x27; answer to the DIY <i>Dactyl</i> keyboard — which has a Kinesis-like layout, but which you would have to download, 3D-print, build and solder yourself. Being open-source (parametric SCAD), there are also a bunch of derived designs out there.<p>&lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;adereth&#x2F;dactyl-keyboard" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;adereth&#x2F;dactyl-keyboard</a>&gt;<p>There is a PCB kit for the Dactyl to reduce the amount of handwiring:<p>&lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bastardkb.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;flexible-pcb&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bastardkb.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;flexible-pcb&#x2F;</a>&gt;
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alxlu超过 2 年前
I’ve been enjoying this keyboard a lot as well. Unfortunately, it seems to randomly keep waking up my MacBook every several minutes and the only fix I’ve been able to find is to manually turn the switch off when I’m done using the computer.<p>I’m also not a huge fan of having to charge both sides individually although so far the battery life seems quite good. I don’t move my computer often and use a dock so it would be nice to be able to just leave it plugged in without worrying about battery, but doing that requires both sides to each have a cable plugged into a power source.
dan-robertson超过 2 年前
&gt; I&#x27;ve used the Apple Magic Keyboard wirelessly for years with no latency issues.<p>I think the logic here is subtly wrong. I think it’s pretty likely that Apple thoroughly test their keyboards to make sure Bluetooth works well and that they have low end to end latency. I think most other keyboard makers don’t test these things, even if they claim to be fast. Though Apple also have an advantage from the small travel decreasing time between touching a key and the switch closing, which may be part of the measured latency depending on the methodology
ec109685超过 2 年前
This part of the article was sad:<p>“ During these eleven months of waiting, the customs law here in Turkey changed numerous times. Because the keyboard cost more than 150 euros, I could no longer withdraw it from customs, and I had to arrange a company specialized in importing goods from customs. After some time preparing notarized documents and paying almost %50 of the base price I paid for the Advantage2 360 Pro”<p>I can understand somewhat the import duties, but why the rigamarole?
auslegung超过 2 年前
I backed the Dygma defy <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dygma.com&#x2F;products&#x2F;dygma-defy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dygma.com&#x2F;products&#x2F;dygma-defy</a> earlier this year. Iirc it was just days or weeks before the kinesis360 announcement. But I don’t care, I’m just so excited for there to be 2 very high quality boards that are really pushing the envelope. Looking forward to comparisons between the two
nixlim超过 2 年前
I used kinesis advantage for about two months. Ended switching to Ultimate Hacking Keyboard and have never been happier - haven&#x27;t switched the keyboard since - about 4 years now. Coding on Kinesis was just such a pain in terms of usual keys - braces et all: weird, up down arrows: weird. I thought I would adjust after two months, but did not happen for me. YMMV
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gtsteve超过 2 年前
This looks excellent, but I was hoping for something other than Bluetooth.<p>I have sworn by Logitech wireless accessories for years because of their integrated wireless which presents to the OS as a regular USB device driver, so I can use the accessories in BIOS, during OS installations, etc without any hassle.<p>I also like the Logitech USB dongles because I find the Windows Bluetooth keyboard support to be very much a second class citizen, with slow performance and the keyboad noticeably lags both randomly and when the system is under load, unlike a USB device.<p>This got me wondering if there was some solution for this, such as having a Bluetooth keyboard communicate with another piece of hardware that replayed the inputs as USB. Or perhaps Windows has upped their game in the couple of years since I last tried a Bluetooth keyboard?<p>I know on Mac it just works (tm) but sadly I cannot escape Windows at work at the moment.
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wahnfrieden超过 2 年前
Glove80 is the leading current closest competitor for the 360 imo, main diff being low profile v1 kalis<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;glove80_keyboard.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xahlee.info&#x2F;kbd&#x2F;glove80_keyboard.html</a>
wellthisisgreat超过 2 年前
the lack of F-keys is baffling. The vertical real estate is non-issue on a desktop, you win nothing by getting rid of the F-row.<p>the lack of &quot;]&quot; and &quot;\&quot; keys is a deal-breaker for non-English layouts. The moment you have more letters in the alphabet than 26, you have to readjust your typing habit for the other language.<p>In the world of fully-custom DIY keyboard that&#x27;s way too much to compromise on for a high-end keyboard
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ilrwbwrkhv超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s good but not as good as theKeyboardio Model 100. The arrow keys of the kinesis are weird. And the overall quality not worth the price.
LAC-Tech超过 2 年前
I&#x27;d like to try a split keyboard, but I&#x27;m just going to come out and say it - I like numpads. I have mine set up to snap windows to different parts of the screen, and it&#x27;s great.<p>For whatever reason, moving my hand across a large keyboard feels... fine. More comfortable than pressing multiple modifier keys.
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pyrolistical超过 2 年前
I couldn’t get used to this layout for programming.<p>I’m all for moving the modifiers but I couldn’t deal with moving of `, =, [, ]
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maximilianroos超过 2 年前
Nit:<p>&gt; The Advantage2 was released in 2002<p>Advantage2 was released in 2016! Original Advantage was in 2002. From <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Kinesis_(keyboard)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Kinesis_(keyboard)</a>
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chrischen超过 2 年前
I noticed that when i use my macbook keyboard I don’t curve my wrists and instead my hand is just on the keyboard at an angle (wrist straight). I’m also a smaller person so I’m wondering are split keyboards necessary for everyone?
firefoxkekw超过 2 年前
Finally a split keyboard that looks professional, I been using the Ergodox EZ for a while and thanks to you I&#x27;m going to switch to the Advantage 360.<p>The official adoption of ZMK is a total win.
dinvlad超过 2 年前
Custom layouts are such a drug though. I can’t use any other keyboard now, after getting used to my HHKB, and I have to bring it with me everywhere.
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ZeroGravitas超过 2 年前
The base has little screwholes, one on each half. Are they for a camera tripod style mount?
aliqot超过 2 年前
I use an ergodox, and while kinesis comes so highly recommended, there is always something about their design aesthetic that rubs me the wrong way, like the uncanny valley between utility and nintendo powerglove.
w10-1超过 2 年前
The review is extensive; it would be easy to lose the forest for the trees, in terms of features and gestalt. Anyone who hasn&#x27;t tried the Advantage 2 should consider that along with the Advantage 360.<p>Bluetooth, function keys, and plastic shine aside, the key question for the 360 is whether tenting, splaying, and adjustable width makes the ergonomics better.<p>Advantage key wells help maintain a neutral <i>and stable</i> major axis of the wrist (flexion&#x2F;extension). That&#x27;s the main cause of carpal tunnel, and a proven benefit.<p>The 360&#x27;s tenting, splaying, and adjustable width help<p>- maintain neutral minor axis of the wrist (radial&#x2F;ulnar deviation)<p>- reduce arm tension for wider shoulders and&#x2F;or more arm muscle tone<p>- maintain neutral forearm pronation<p>Unlike key wells, none of these axes are actually in use while keying; they are stable, so they add tension but not overuse. On the other hand, an under-appreciated benefit of splitting and tenting is that they reduce your ability to lean on the keyboard to compensate for posture issues, and may reduce the tendency to hit keys hard.<p>So feature-wide, the split&#x2F;tented design has ergonomic promise, but might not be a significant benefit if you have good form with the Advantage. So yes, it is worth trying on feature grounds.<p>The gestalt is a bit more like your take on engineering complexity, and whether additional degrees of freedom are optimizing or confusing. Either way, it depends on your ergonomic profile: necessity or desire.<p>I started with necessity: RSI makes you exquisitely sensitive to excess tension and movement. But soon it became desire: I found that I can think more clearly, and feel much more fresh after a long day, when keyboarding is effortless -- if I need no more focus on typing than I do on my tongue when speaking.<p>Like a marriage (or Steve Job&#x27;s rock tumbler?), getting to effortless requires endless work chipping away even tiny sharp edges; observing your muscle tension, noticing what key combinations are usable and memorable. Building touch typing fluency, including syntax and commands for multiple applications, into muscle memory. It&#x27;s much closer to engineering backends at internet scale than prototyping on rails for 300 clients. You may even find that smoothing your own ergonomics makes you happier and more vested in a long-term approach.<p>I have an Advantage2 with a magic trackpad in the middle (like maximilianroos), and a tilted tray with raised platform for mice. I&#x27;ve used the Kinesis deep-well split keyboards for ~24 years, and would pay 5X the price if I had to. The company has fantastic support and now is battling a flurry of pop-up product managers offshoring me-too design and manufacturing. High-end keyboards are a small market, and I wonder how long Kinesis will last.<p>The 360 is mostly unobtainium. They sold out in hours, crashed the website, and only now (months later) announced another limited tranch available via third parties.<p>If the 360 is interesting and you don&#x27;t have an Advantage, consider the Advantage2. Give yourself a 2-4 (exclusive) weeks, to the point where you can touch-type and forget about the keyboard. By then you&#x27;ll either be on board with continuous improvement or not, and the 360 will be just another increment to try.
newaccount2021超过 2 年前
Don&#x27;t be scared off by the price, I have been using my Advantage 2 for over a decade and I expect it will last another decade
jzb超过 2 年前
I just want a fresh supply of the old Microsoft Natural Ergonomic keyboards from the late 90s&#x2F;early 2000s, before they started using chiclet keys or mushy switches. (The model with a USB and PS&#x2F;2 option.)