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Level responds to lock picker opening its $330 Apple Store lock in seconds

248 点作者 stacktrust超过 2 年前

37 条评论

elmerfud超过 2 年前
A fairly lame response from Level considering the price tag of this lock. My guess is they simply outsourced making this to cheapest vendor they cut find and never talked to a engineer familiar with actual locks. The inclusion of various security pins would have defeated these simple attacks and not really increased their cost.<p>Having your lock defeated by the LPL is just normal as he&#x27;s an expert at doing in. Many skilled locksmiths cannot open locks he able to do. Not guarding against raking and bumping, that&#x27;s shameful for an exterior door lock. Then doubling down on their failure, that&#x27;s Baghdad Bob level of PR right there.
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duped超过 2 年前
I wish someone did a more honest and thorough review of the Level lock.<p>Sure it can only be picked with a wave rake. But all the advantages of the lock are negated by its actual performance.<p>- Unlocking by touch only works about 10% of the time.<p>- Homekit integration is really bad. It&#x27;s quicker to pull out my key and unlock it manually than connect over BT and unlock it. It&#x27;s even slower through the Level app.<p>- Battery life sucks.<p>- After unlocking manually it will automatically lock instantly. My door has a dent in the frame from this as I close my door after opening and it locks while it closes.<p>- Support doesn&#x27;t exist. They do not reply to you.<p>Don&#x27;t buy it. It&#x27;s a piece of shit for the money. It has few benefits over any electronic combination lock or a normal deadbolt.
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Allezxandre超过 2 年前
I understand where Level is coming from with this response, but cybersecurity has taught us better.<p>Yes, less than 10% of attacks use this exploit, but now that it’s public that you’re vulnerable to it, you become a target for 100% of attacks involving this exploit.<p>So for instance, if the delivery address of Level customers leak (and given the security of their physical locks, I would say them having bad cyber-security practices is not something too far-fetched), a malicious attacker would essentially have a database of home addresses with users that have bought a $300 locker that he can break into with the help of any YouTube tutorial
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jepler超过 2 年前
&quot;designed to be used with them; the Level Lock Plus can be unlocked using one of the best iPhone or best Apple Watch devices even if you’ve forgotten your actual house key.&quot;<p>The way &quot;best&quot; was added to each of those links was the best part of this article.
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braingenious超过 2 年前
This is downright hilarious. I couldn’t imagine running a lock company and arguing that it’s actually <i>good and normal</i> that my locks can be defeated by anybody with a $1 bit of kit off Aliexpress and exactly 3 minutes of Youtube knowledge.
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johnklos超过 2 年前
So this company really wants people to pay $330 and just simply ignore the fact that it&#x27;s a super shitty, highly ineffective lock.<p>They&#x27;re not even trying to hide their grifts these days, are they?
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WalterBright超过 2 年前
&gt; only 4% of homes are broken into using this method<p>I&#x27;d spend a few dollars to eliminate that 4%.<p>I don&#x27;t like electric locks anyway. Over time, door frames tend to shift and the doors tend to sag, to the point where the bolt jams in the frame. Electric bolts won&#x27;t work with that, whereas manual bolts will still work fine, because you can jiggle it to get it in&#x2F;out.
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stevage超过 2 年前
&gt;In response to LockPickingLawyer&#x27;s findings, a Level spokesperson told us that while the potential threat of a lock picker is eye-catching, only 4% of homes are broken into using this method (according to US Department of Justice (opens in new tab) and FBI statistics).<p>So basically what Level is saying is that locks are basically security theatre, and they&#x27;re happily complicit in it: locks don&#x27;t actually need to be secure, because no one tries to pick them, now please buy our $330 lock.
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dmingod666超过 2 年前
LockPickingLawyer is very skilled, but the tools he used in this video were basic, a wave rake only - definitely a low skill attack. He did it 4 times in a span of 3 mins, while still reviewing the lock..
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userbinator超过 2 年前
Watching LPL videos only reinforces the notion that the vast majority of locks are only used for keeping honest people honest.<p>The $330 price is for being &quot;smart&quot;, not for any additional security.
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csa超过 2 年前
I knew from the title that this had to be LockPickingawyer. The guy is an absolute genius.<p>His YT channel made me realize how mild of a deterrent most locks are.<p>If you haven’t watched his channel yet, I recommend giving it a spin.
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bryan_w超过 2 年前
I can&#x27;t believe apple allowed their name to be attached to something so shoddy.
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fparlane超过 2 年前
Level&#x27;s response: &quot;No, no: our bar is lower than that.&quot;
everyone超过 2 年前
&quot; the Level Lock Plus can be unlocked using one of the best iPhone or best Apple Watch devices even if you’ve forgotten your actual house key. &quot;<p>What? Is that a typo, or can you only open it with the &quot;best&quot; iphone and apple watch? whatever they are.
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ww520超过 2 年前
Aside from the easy lock picking, the bolt of the lock looks incredibly flimsy. It’s a thin hollow tube rather than a solid metal bolt. It looks like a big push or kick would rupture the bolt and open the door.
fortran77超过 2 年前
But the Lock Picking Lawyer didn&#x27;t pick the locks! He opened it two ways that require little skill: bumping and raking. At least they could have made the lock bump and rake resistant at that price.
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DaveSchmindel超过 2 年前
This seems like an effective way to lose Apple as a client!
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diziet超过 2 年前
Those two methods seemed very simple and not a high skill attack at all. Aren&#x27;t there a lot of commercially available lock cylinders&#x2F;cores that prevent these attacks from multiple manufacturers that Level could swap their sourcing for?
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rhinoceraptor超过 2 年前
I agree it should use a better core for that price, but the chances a burglar is going to rake your lock open instead of kicking in the door is pretty low.<p>Even in physical pentesting, lock picking is rarely used. There are usually much quicker and easier ways that exploit the various ways that doors and hardware can be installed incorrectly. A simple travelers hook is a much more useful tool than a lock pick set.
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superchroma超过 2 年前
This is a stupid product for stupid people, offering as much security than a lock 1&#x2F;10 of the price.<p>Worse, it sends a message. It says &quot;I am a rich idiot who doesn&#x27;t understand security and has too much money, and who subscribes to the apple ecosystem so hard that I buy their unrelated merchandise, so you know there&#x27;ll be stuff to steal here&quot;.<p>I cannot think of a better advertisement to criminals.
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valine超过 2 年前
I’d wager your chances of a break in via lock picking are higher than 8% if the lock on your house is vulnerable to raking.
blamazon超过 2 年前
Anyone know if the cylinder in this lock can be upgraded? It&#x27;s a nice piece of hardware aside from this vulnerability.
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abiloe超过 2 年前
Oh this again. The idiots at the WireCutter already covered this and they think it&#x27;s just fine.<p>Mass market smart locks are a dumpster fire and they have the full support of the mass media. The #1 Wirecutter smart lock pick has this exact same flaw - a shitty cylinder that is prone to trivial bumping and that could easily be improved - the cheapest big box deadbolts have better cylinders. Someone had commented on that article (since removed) about this flaw - and the moron behind the Wirecutter smart section has just gone on and on about how this isn&#x27;t a real problem, bla, bla - even had the audacity to post of a video of I&#x27;m guessing him demonstrating a poor raking attempt on one of these crappy locks to &quot;prove&quot; how &quot;easy&quot; locks are to pick - yes you dumbass, if you only use shitty locks with no protection.<p>He followed up with the gem that &quot;the point of the lock picking lawyer is to show that any lock can be picked&quot; - Again, no, idiot - the LPL does a tremendous amount of education to expose trivial weaknesses in particular products that can and should be addressed - he often points out when products provide a reasonable level of security for the price. The Level lock and the Ultraloq (the NYT top pick), do not. Fuck Wirecutter and the New York Times, enjoy your referral money you dishonest pricks. (U-Tecs customer service is also shit tier, something they even admit in their own review)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;wirecutter&#x2F;blog&#x2F;picking-smart-deadbolts-is-easy-we-arent-alarmed&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;wirecutter&#x2F;blog&#x2F;picking-smart-deadbo...</a> The premise of this article seems to be - there are some high priced smart locks (that we promote) that are easy to bump open, therefore <i>all</i> locks are easy to bump, and you shouldn&#x27;t factor pick resistance into buying decision at all. And also: raking and bumping is in the same class of difficulty as pin picking (this difference has been explained to them - this is not for lack of information).<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;wirecutter&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;the-best-smart-lock&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;wirecutter&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;the-best-smart-lo...</a><p>Actually is that the Level lock they demonstrate on back in October? Notice that isn&#x27;t a Schlage - I&#x27;d like to see him try that.<p>Another thing they keep bringing up this ANSI Grade 1 nonsense - I have looked - I cannot find any evidence of 3rd party certification for their top pick. It&#x27;s all bullshit.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;buildershardware.com&#x2F;Certification-Program&#x2F;Certified-Products-Directory" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;buildershardware.com&#x2F;Certification-Program&#x2F;Certified...</a>
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rcarmo超过 2 年前
Clearly their product team never watched a Deviant Ollam talk.
rognjen超过 2 年前
This site should be blacklisted from HN.<p>What I noticed in the 10 seconds of opening the article is that it jacked the back button and is peppered with SEO manipulation links.
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c3534l超过 2 年前
Maybe the reason most attackers don&#x27;t use lockpicking to enter a home is because usually they lock is difficult enough to make other methods of entry easier.
jbverschoor超过 2 年前
They’re lately begging for their customers to get broken in.<p>Lame excuse and doesn’t even mention the flimsy bolt.<p>Apple should remove them and sell bolt instead or something
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ck2超过 2 年前
As the cliche goes: locks only keep the honest people out<p>Aren&#x27;t there only one or two locks that picker has never easily opened? Bowley?
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gloosx超过 2 年前
Erm, a battery inside can be blown up? Heat it, pin it, strike it, there are too many ways to literally blow-up this lock
jbverschoor超过 2 年前
I would not be surprised if they simply used some off the shelf example cad model of a lock when starting this business
rascul超过 2 年前
Where might I find out what locks are good?
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nickmancol超过 2 年前
Haha it&#x27;s not a bug, it&#x27;s a _feature_
pseingatl超过 2 年前
They need to hire the lock-picking lawyer as a consultant.
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vitiral超过 2 年前
It can even be opened with the newest apple product: the iRake<p>(sold separately for only $29.99)
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carabiner超过 2 年前
99% of locks used for $600 bikes or to store your wallet in the gym locker room can be picked by the LPL in seconds. Hell your apartment door lock, securing everything you own, can probably be picked by him. This doesn&#x27;t make it extraordinarily vulnerable, only that the LPL is very good at what he does.
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dan353hehe超过 2 年前
I think everyone is missing point on this. This is actually a feature! Loose your key? Loose your iphone? Loose your Apple Watch? No worries just ask your friendly neighborhood door to door sales person to open your door for you!<p>You will literally never be locked out again! &#x2F;s<p>Jokes aside it is pretty shameful to sell a poorly made product, and then justify it by saying that it’s still safer then leaving your door unlocked. $330.
austhrow743超过 2 年前
Would you drop $3k on a macbook pro, take it out and use it in the dirt and rain, and then be shocked that it didn&#x27;t hold up as well as some generic $500 laptop?<p>Would you drop $80k on a new sedan and then be shocked that its boot capacity is the same as a $20k sedan?<p>$200 at a fine dining restaurant and it fills you up as well as a $10 one?<p>No. These things are luxuries sure but it&#x27;s understood that it extends in a certain way. You buy the expensive macbook if you want to use it like normal in a home or office but have a nicer screen, touchpad, etc. You buy the expensive ruggedised laptop if you need to use it out in the field. You buy a van, trailer, ute, whatever if you need a lot of hauling capability. You buy groceries if you want to feed yourself for a month not one expensive meal.<p>Probably you think I&#x27;m being a jackass by comparing thinking this lock should be more secure than a generic lock but I genuinely cant see a difference. It&#x27;s as obvious to me that you&#x27;re paying a premium for the convenience aspects of this lock rather than security as it is that you&#x27;re paying for a nice screen on a macbook not ability to withstand harsh conditions. It being on the Apple store gives me no indication that it&#x27;s more secure than the average lock, nor does their marketing.<p>So I&#x27;m genuinely curious. What is it about this situation that makes you people who think this is a lame response, hilarious, a grift, etc see it differently from the above? Why would you not just expect it to be better in an entirely different dimension than it&#x27;s marketing itself, but expect it so much so that this is being viewed as some sort of embarrassing scam?
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