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Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL

54 点作者 markdog12超过 2 年前

15 条评论

dang超过 2 年前
Related:<p><i>Removing the JPEG XL code and flag from Chromium</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33412340" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33412340</a> - Oct 2022 (42 comments)<p><i>Chrome drops JPEG XL, “not enough interest”</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33404840" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33404840</a> - Oct 2022 (4 comments)<p><i>Google set to deprecate JPEG XL support in Chrome 110</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33399940" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33399940</a> - Oct 2022 (93 comments)<p><i>Google Chrome Is Already Preparing to Deprecate JPEG-XL</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33383880" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33383880</a> - Oct 2022 (20 comments)<p>Also:<p><i>The case for JPEG XL</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33442281" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33442281</a> - Nov 2022 (207 comments)<p>Is there SNI (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;sort=byDate&amp;type=comment&amp;query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;so...</a>) in the current post? - if there is I can&#x27;t find it.
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CharlesW超过 2 年前
Rationale from thread:<p>&gt; <i>Helping the web to evolve is challenging, and it requires us to make difficult choices. We&#x27;ve also heard from our browser and device partners that every additional format adds costs (monetary or hardware), and we’re very much aware that these costs are borne by those outside of Google. When we evaluate new media formats, the first question we have to ask is whether the format works best for the web. With respect to new image formats such as JPEG XL, that means we have to look comprehensively at many factors: compression performance across a broad range of images; is the decoder fast, allowing for speedy rendering of smaller images; are there fast encoders, ideally with hardware support, that keep encoding costs reasonable for large users; can we optimize existing formats to meet any new use-cases, rather than adding support for an additional format; do other browsers and OSes support it?</i><p>&gt; <i>After weighing the data, we’ve decided to stop Chrome’s JPEG XL experiment and remove the code associated with the experiment. We&#x27;ll work to publish data in the next couple of weeks.</i><p>&gt; <i>For those who want to use JPEG XL in Chrome, we believe a WebAssembly (Wasm) implementation is both performant and a great path forward.</i><p>&gt; <i>Jim</i>
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thih9超过 2 年前
&gt; JPEG XL is a royalty-free raster-graphics file format that supports both lossy compression and lossless compression. It is designed to outperform existing raster formats and thus become their universal replacement.<p>&gt; The bitstream was informally frozen on 24 December 2020 (...) The file format and core coding system were formally standardized on 13 October 2021 and 30 March 2022 respectively.<p>source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;JPEG_XL" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;JPEG_XL</a>
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RedShift1超过 2 年前
This is ridiculous. Chrome&#x27;s influence is too big and Google is basically dictating how the web works. The whole world must bow to what a select group of people decide. This internet explorer level of oppression has to stop.
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Scaevolus超过 2 年前
Disappointing. I&#x27;ll have to figure out the JXL WASM polyfill. Maybe if I wait a few months someone else will do it for me?<p>There&#x27;s <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;GoogleChromeLabs&#x2F;squoosh&#x2F;tree&#x2F;dev&#x2F;codecs&#x2F;jxl&#x2F;dec" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;GoogleChromeLabs&#x2F;squoosh&#x2F;tree&#x2F;dev&#x2F;codecs&#x2F;...</a> that provides `JXLModule.decode(data: BufferSource): ImageData | null`, but for a polyfill I suspect you&#x27;d want a method to get the dimensions of the image and an IntersectionObserver to defer actually decoding the image until it scrolls into view. Having to load the image with XHR is annoying.
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least超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s hard to be anything but skeptical about the intent behind this decision, considering that the competing emerging standard (WebP) is one that Google controls.<p>This is one reason why I am thankful that Apple still only allows webkit on iOS even if philosophically I believe people should be able to run the software they want on their phone — it&#x27;s basically the only check against pure Google hegemony over the web.<p>&gt; can we optimize existing formats to meet any new use-cases, rather than adding support for an additional format; do other browsers and OSes support it?<p>They did not show this restraint at all when it came to implementing and pushing their own formats.
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twotwotwo超过 2 年前
They have not closed a narrower bug about the lossless JPEG compression: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugs.chromium.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;chromium&#x2F;issues&#x2F;detail?id=1109698" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugs.chromium.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;chromium&#x2F;issues&#x2F;detail?id=110969...</a><p>I think it&#x27;s a legitimately different tradeoff because the recompression is not like a new lossy format--less code, plus you don&#x27;t need the whole ecosystem to move, big sites and CDNs can transparently start using it--but still substantial (22% on JPEG content out there). And by being very CPU-light it fills a fairly large gap where people are not ready to use AVIF, which needs either dedicated hardware or tons of CPU to encode.<p>One thing this is right about is a WASM polyfill is interesting. With that and a ServiceWorker, you can make the recompression pretty transparent (right-click saves a .jpg) but still save your 22%. The performance penalty of doing it in WASM is a question, but it&#x27;s definitely possible.
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sedatk超过 2 年前
&gt; We&#x27;ve also heard from our browser and device partners that every additional format adds costs (monetary or hardware),<p>What&#x27;s that mean? What&#x27;s a browser partner? What&#x27;s a device partner? How do additional formats cost to those &quot;partners&quot;, as the format handling would be performed by Chrome already?
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ZeroGravitas超过 2 年前
I really like JPEG XL tech, seemed like the first format that could completely replace animated gif, png, jpeg with a simple upgrade path and backwards compatability story for lots of weird corner case usages.<p>I do have sympathy for the not adding lots of formats to the web argument though.
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edflsafoiewq超过 2 年前
I increasingly despair over the possibility of any new image format getting traction. That means support in web browsers (functionally, Chrome) and on desktop (Windows explorer, etc.). WebP is probably the one that&#x27;s advanced the furthest but AFAIK it doesn&#x27;t even get thumbnailed in the Windows file browser and normies absolutely hate it since it won&#x27;t work everywhere a PNG or JPEG will.
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mkl95超过 2 年前
&gt; We&#x27;ve also heard from our browser and device partners that every additional format adds costs (monetary or hardware), and we’re very much aware that these costs are borne by those outside of Google<p>To add some info, JPEG XL can still be enabled on the latest Edge, Opera, and Firefox Nightly versions. It can be enabled on Chrome 91 - 110 (not included).
bragr超过 2 年前
&gt;After weighing the data, we’ve decided to stop Chrome’s JPEG XL experiment and remove the code associated with the experiment. We&#x27;ll work to publish data in the next couple of weeks.<p>You know, if you did that in the other order, you might avoid a lot of sturm und drang.
rektide超过 2 年前
Is it possible to still write pages with JXL as an option a xompatibpe browser could use&#x2F;prefer? It&#x27;d be great to see this just keep happening anyways. Is this just a content-negotiation question? How else might a page declare it would like to use certain resources, if the broeser supports it, else fallback?
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sedatk超过 2 年前
Could supporting JPEG XL natively be an opportunity for Edge and Firefox to compete with Chrome seriously?
jpgvm超过 2 年前
So does this mean we are getting AVIF or WebP or both? It&#x27;s not clear to me which is the &quot;blessed&quot; format out of these. HEIC is ofcourse there but proprietary.
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