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I decided to stop working on Mighty

224 点作者 chidiw超过 2 年前

56 条评论

nisten超过 2 年前
I think it really was the M1 Chip that killed Mighty. The product itself looked like it was working great.<p>Before the value proposition was good. You can still use your old laptop and still have a very fast browser experience via remotely running it on a AMD server chip, this way you save on battery life and RAM too.<p>Then M1 speedometer scores started beating AMD Epyc on single core web browsing performance. Not only that, but even providing a much better experience in terms of battery life because of power savings.<p>Then yeah there was no point paying 20$-30$ a month for a remote browser instance. If you can afford that as a user you&#x27;re either already set on CPU&#x2F;GPU&#x2F;RAM or better off just buying a used m1 air for &lt;900$.<p>It&#x27;s quite sad of a lesson where you do everything right, work consistently hard, be quite innovative, have plenty of financial and talent resources, and still fail.<p>Tech obsolescence is brutal.
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danso超过 2 年前
Honestly one of the most &quot;But why?&quot; startup ideas I&#x27;d ever heard of. I figured pg&#x27;s hype for it was based in thinking it could someday be targeted for profitable acquisition by Google. But perhaps the current tech industry downturn (plus Stadia&#x27;s death) made that obviously untenable.<p>At $30&#x2F;month, this sounded like something that could only be worthwhile for businesses (though I&#x27;m at a loss to imagine what size&#x2F;industry of company would want this). Did Might have any corporate clients, and if so, how did they navigate the security&#x2F;privacy compliance issues?
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obblekk超过 2 年前
Props to Suhail for building in the open (takes a lot of rejection tolerance) and being so honest about the path.<p>That said, I work with lawyers as customers and I suspect there was an adjacent market in data privacy that a hosted browser would have had PM fit for.<p>A lot of industries have strict legal requirements on controlling employee access to data (think healthcare, legal, compliance). In these cases, SaaS becomes risky if it can be accessed by anyone off their work computer.<p>The standard solution is to limit the webapp to be accessible on VPN, and limit VPN to be accessible on MDM controlled devices, and limit MDM to be accessible on company owned devices.<p>It would be a lot easier to just control the browser viewport and prevent data harvesting (essentially what Mighty was doing, focused on performance).<p>Sounds like a small change, but it makes a world of difference when it&#x27;s not feasible to send a physical machine to someone (3rd party contractors, overseas employees, low wage employees, etc)... something I discovered when talking to lawyers about using contractors overseas for routine data entry tasks.<p>But that&#x27;s definitely not the same kind of user, or tech expertise and would have been a big pivot in itself. Hopefully someone buys the IP and builds something cool.
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talhof8超过 2 年前
I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s M1 that killed it.<p>Probably high server costs and being a vitamin and not a painkiller killed it.<p>Also, people are not too happy about giving away their browser history data to server-side powered browsers.<p>That being said, it&#x27;s still sad to see startups fail. Hopefully they&#x27;ll have better luck with their new direction. Fingers crossed!
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SergeAx超过 2 年前
I am very skeptical by my nature, and see it more as a negative trait. But there are moments when I want to shout from the top of my lungs: &quot;Who in their right mind gonna use it, not talking about buying it?!&quot;. I remember two such cases: that voice rooms app, where people gathered and talked about themselves and of course crypto tokens, and this remotely running browser for $30&#x2F;month.<p>I beleive, by the way, that the idea of a fast browser for cheap devices came to founder after reading story about Browserling, QA multibrowser suite, going viral in India, where people with $20 phones were able to use WhatsApp webapp via Browserling free plan (HN post: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16103235" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16103235</a>). Coincidentially, I heard that voice room app (I am not being sarcastic here, I really forgot it&#x27;s name and don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s worth googling) also became succesfull in India.
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doorman2超过 2 年前
Mighty had no hope of succeeding. I’ve built something very similar to Mighty, and the fact is that browsers are hogs, and then adding on video transcoding on top of that makes the situation completely untenable. If someone can’t afford a computer good enough to browse the web, they sure as hell can’t afford a computer that can transcode HD video at all times, which is essentially what they’d need to pay for.
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stephc_int13超过 2 年前
Suhail blocked me on Twitter some time ago as I was a bit vocal in my opposition to the core idea behind this app.<p>I think it was already dead at the time and the criticism got under his skin.<p>I wish there was a way to make money by shorting bad ideas. I think I could easily fund a few companies by doing that on weekends.
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modeless超过 2 年前
Looking at tweets like [1] it seems like their original bet was that server single core performance would dramatically outpace client single core performance. Honestly even if that had happened I still don&#x27;t think their product would have made sense. The hosting cost and bandwidth&#x2F;latency requirements would still have killed it.<p>The death of this product is a good sign for computing overall. The more of computing that happens on the client the better. Clients are (at least sometimes) under user control. When stuff moves to the cloud users give up control and that&#x27;s a bad thing. Long live fat clients!<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1588906086459150337?s=20&amp;t=3QU-o-xTD4nS9k2eog9U9A" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1588906086459150337?s=20&amp;t...</a>
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ivoryloom超过 2 年前
I was skeptical about Mighty but seeing gaming platforms moving to streaming, PG endorsing this as the future, I thought I was just not getting it. Maybe I should trust myself more.
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thih9超过 2 年前
Initially announced in 2021:<p>&gt; We&#x27;re excited to finally unveil Mighty, a faster browser that is entirely streamed from a powerful computer in the cloud.<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.mightyapp.com&#x2F;mightys-secret-plan-to-invent-the-future-of-computing&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.mightyapp.com&#x2F;mightys-secret-plan-to-invent-the...</a>
datalopers超过 2 年前
He shutdown Mighty to launch an AI image generator. Anytime you’re told someone is smart or clever, remember they aren&#x27;t.
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andybak超过 2 年前
For the benefit of others who don&#x27;t have a clue what mighty is: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mightyapp.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mightyapp.com&#x2F;</a>
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mbStavola超过 2 年前
I never understood the value proposition here, but I assume they had _some_ traction which motivated them to work on this for almost four years. Curious as to their numbers and what people walked away thinking after trying it.
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pavlov超过 2 年前
Some 5-6 years ago I built a live streaming backend that used a custom C++ encoding front around Chromium on GPU servers on AWS. Mighty probably does something pretty similar. It was the right solution for our users at that moment because our product was a professional tool at a relatively high price tag, and being able to run full HTML+CSS allowed us to deliver customized motion graphics quickly using available designer talent, so there was a distinct advantage there.<p>It was also quite expensive to run, and the stack was fickle because those Nvidia GPU servers aren’t designed to run client apps — they’re AI&#x2F;ML solutions primarily. So I’m not surprised that Mighty is shutting down: the infra bills must have been running pretty hot and they seem to believe they can better spend their cash runway on AI, presumably on largely the same infra.<p>(Btw I’m giving a talk at the Kranky Geek virtual event on Thursday Nov 17 about cloud compositing which will discuss this Chromium adventure and what I believe is a better solution for most apps.)
anhncommenter25超过 2 年前
Mighty was like compute arbitrage. The bet was that you could buy compute at cloud prices, resell it to end users, and since this is cheaper than buying consumer compute in the form of workstations, laptops, &amp; tablets, you can pocket the difference.<p>I can&#x27;t think of a bigger slice of consumer compute than browser workload; so if the scheme doesn&#x27;t work there, it won&#x27;t work for anything. My conclusion is that compute arbitrage isn&#x27;t viable for B2C. You will have to actually provide a service on top of the resale. For example Github Codespaces is reselling cloud compute while simultaneously solving infra-as-code pain points in the CI&#x2F;CD pipeline.
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_sohan超过 2 年前
I was surprised that PG supported this idea so publicly for so long. Best of luck for the team on their next product.
rvz超过 2 年前
It made no sense to begin with, had little to no use case and was full of hype by VCs [0] and had absolutely zero path to making any money.<p>Doomed for failure from the start.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ShaanVP&#x2F;status&#x2F;1511477714049388548" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ShaanVP&#x2F;status&#x2F;1511477714049388548</a>
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ec109685超过 2 年前
Mighty was conceived at a really dark time in Mac laptop performance.<p>The combination of Intel Mac Laptops that had horrible thermal characteristics, browsers that didn’t do anything to throttle background tabs, bloated websites and limited memory created a perfect storm of awful performance that Mighty could address.<p>Almost all of that isn’t true anymore (besides the bloated websites which browsers manage better), which decimated the potential Mighty market (people willing to spend hundreds a year on a fast browser).
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kilroy123超过 2 年前
I was a paid user, so I guess I&#x27;ll chime in from that point of view. Why did I pay for this?<p>On my work computer, I keep everything separate. Chrome is work stuff. Mighty was my personal stuff, with little to no files stored locally. When I run all the docker containers to stand up the local server. My computer is very taxed for resources. Mighty was amazing and not bogging down my computer with a second browser open.<p>However, on my big beefy personal M1 Max MacBook Pro with 64 GB of ram. It actually felt slow. I found myself reaching for regular Chrome more and more.<p>Very niche use case. IMO they needed to pivot to B2B and not some niche B2C play, like what they were pursuing.<p>Overall, it worked impressively so. Kudos to the team for shipping something so stable that worked.
dhirenb超过 2 年前
This idea sounded bad like a lot of ideas initially sound (insert ipod nomad lame meme). There was a case to be made that consumer laptop processing speeds had completely stagnated, chrome wasn&#x27;t getting any lighter, and fast internet was more readily available.<p>But, Apple stepped in with the M1&#x2F;M2 and totally obviated the need for any product like this.
robenkleene超过 2 年前
The trick of Figma claims another. I see Mighty as part of the broader trend of folks thinking Figma it the leading edge of a wider transition to web apps across all creative work.<p>But all forms of coding and media editing (the main tasks that are truly CPU&#x2F;GPU-bound, the area where something like Mighty would help) have remained as local desktop app affairs.<p>I think what really happened is folks misinterpreted the significance of Figma. The web has taken over in collaboration-focused software, e.g., things like Google Docs, Slack, etc... What really happened is that design has moved from specialized professional software (hard to use, powerful), to being more like collaboration software (easy to use, light).<p>I.e., what Figma really signals is that design is now more like new task that became more like using Google Docs app, not that high-powered tasks like video, photo, and audio editing are becoming web apps. This means what really powered Figma&#x27;s takeover was that flat design took over, which is less technically demanding.
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landonxjames超过 2 年前
According to the final tweet in that thread [0] it seems like they are pivoting to a sort of AI generated art based social media platform. I’m curious why they think this has the potential to be a “mass market changing” business since the social media world seems pretty over saturated already<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1591831193598963713" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1591831193598963713</a>
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amadeuspagel超过 2 年前
In May 2021 Paul Graham wrote <i>Crazy New Ideas</i>[1], in which he explained that envy is the only reason people criticize ideas by &quot;reasonable domain experts&quot;. This was widely understood at the time to refer to critics of Mighty[2][3].<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;newideas.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;newideas.html</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27062713" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27062713</a><p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.echevarria.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;the-mighty-pushback-isnt-all-about-mighty&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.echevarria.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;the-mighty-pushback-isnt-all-...</a>
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funstuff007超过 2 年前
&gt; I love how friendly Replit and MIghty are to one another. One day they will divide the world between them.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;paulg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1357097710734749700?lang=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;paulg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1357097710734749700?lang=en</a><p>I dig when billionaires are wrong. They&#x27;re just like us. :)
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fareesh超过 2 年前
I was always quite skeptical of this being a popular use-case that grows over time.<p>Can the underlying technology be used to create a first class remote desktop experience? From the ones I&#x27;ve tried, I&#x27;ve found that NoMachine is among the best performing remote desktop tools. I never used Mighty but my guess is they must have achieved better performance than this? Was Mighty&#x27;s technology tailored to Chrome only?
stavros超过 2 年前
Can someone explain what Mighty is? There&#x27;s no context either here or in the linked Twitter thread.<p>After significant searching, I found it:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mightyapp.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mightyapp.com</a><p>Basically Stadia for webpages.
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skc超过 2 年前
He bravely and openly battled through alot of skepticism. Unfortunately (or fortunately I suppose), it turns out the skeptics were right.<p>Always seemed like a very, very niche product .
crubier超过 2 年前
I’m actually happy that Mighty did not succeed. A more centralized web with dumb terminals is not what we need. I was always a bit disappointed to see Paul Graham hyping it up. Suhail is super smart though so I’m sure their next chapter is going to be awesome!
QuadrupleA超过 2 年前
I agree with Casey Muratori&#x27;s take on this one:<p>Running a browser to connect to the cloud to run a browser to connect to the cloud to retrieve the contents of a single 2D page to recompress and send back to the original browser is now &quot;the future of computing&quot;.
ykl超过 2 年前
I think this piece from a few years ago about how difficult it is to build a startup around GPT-3 [1] is relevant to the AI art product they’re pivoting to. Best of luck to them, but the “build a product on top of open source AI models” space overwhelming favors the incumbents that actually are doing the cutting edge work in driving those models.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.allencheng.com&#x2F;starting-a-business-around-gpt-3-is-a-bad-idea&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.allencheng.com&#x2F;starting-a-business-around-gpt-3-...</a>
lmeyerov超过 2 年前
Good to see the pivot before cash ran out, but sad news :( Good luck to the team!<p>IMO Mighty is too early bc they didn&#x27;t tackle the SW side, &#x27;just&#x27; the remote nature, so couldn&#x27;t get their 10X. The 10-100X shift today comes from apps running differently on cloud resources, not just lift-and-shift. That already exists as the VDI market.<p>Ex: We do client GPU &lt;&gt; cloud multi-GPU for cyber&#x2F;fraud&#x2F;etc analysts wanting to visually investigate how their many events stitch together, and Otoy does same for movie effects. In the consumer market, seeing same rewrites in say gaming. In a sense, Mighty&#x27;s pivot to generative AI is the same -- faster to use remote multi-GPU services.. but custom built accelerated visual app for 100Xs, not lift-and-shift.<p>Without tackling the SW rewrite problem, hard for Mighty to get these wins via a lift-and-shift :( I do think federating cloud resources so users can bring their own and devs can reliably tap them would be amazing, but we seem still in the dev-controlled-server era. As someone trying to build predictable 100X experiences, that feels likely for awhile. Such a shift could have been webgl2 etc standards enabling modern multigpu apps in the browser... but Google and Apple web GPU browser&#x2F;standards leadership have long strangled that path.<p>In a related note, we are starting to launch our global GPU edge network, and looking for a backend&#x2F;infra eng on that + related AI services build out -- Nodejs&#x2F;python&#x2F;k8s. We are profitably growing: I agreed with Mighty&#x27;s pattern before it even existed (my PhD at Berkeley explored it!), just easier ROI right now by sticking at the app layer.
arriu超过 2 年前
Putting market fit aside, Mighty was a technical feat coming from a talented team.
ianbutler超过 2 年前
I don’t think Mighty was unreasonable, just tackled from the wrong end. Netlify and Vercel did it from the other end and look where they are right now.<p>Instead of a faster browser they did super easy edge deployments of your JS apps which has a similar end result for users but also solves a giant headache for businesses which is where the money is.
searchableguy超过 2 年前
Everyone is pivoting to AI creative tools recently.<p>So much interest and explosion.
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langitbiru超过 2 年前
His new venture: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;playgroundai.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;playgroundai.com&#x2F;</a><p>Src: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1591831193598963713" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Suhail&#x2F;status&#x2F;1591831193598963713</a>
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dandongus超过 2 年前
It was very surprising to see how many people were buying into this (frankly awful) idea when it was posted here a year or two ago. Any one person criticizing it was immediately dogpiled on by 10 people telling them how wrong they were. Refreshing to see everything come full circle in the end.
wilde超过 2 年前
Props to them for taking risks and making the hard call to pivot. We need people building useful tools.
miketery超过 2 年前
I’d love to see a mighty type app but for a phone emulator.<p>I’m tired of all these apps constantly doing stuff in the background and tracking my location anytime I use them.<p>If I had a “mighty” phone app, and could stream an emulated device with the apps on that server I’d happily pay $5~$10&#x2F; month.
abetusk超过 2 年前
In my opinion, on the face of it, remote experiences like this, be it gaming or whatever, are not out of the realm of reason. In practice, they tend to not work (again, in my opinion) because the rate at which computers get faster and cheaper far outpaces the infrastructure necessary to make a these &quot;fly by wire&quot; solutions work or have them be adopted.<p>If Moore&#x27;s law (or it&#x27;s equivalent in compute&#x2F;dollar) really ever does level out, then this will become more attractive. With the cost of compute dropping exponentially, it doesn&#x27;t seem like this can ever really get a foothold.
guynamedloren超过 2 年前
Launched April 2021, discussion here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26957215" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26957215</a>
abol3z超过 2 年前
Seems like the privilege of raising a lot of money without having a product, revenue, or market fit can be a curse as well. They could have figured it sooner with less money in hand.
dietsprite超过 2 年前
Couldn’t of happened to a nicer guy
bagels超过 2 年前
For those, like me who don&#x27;t know what Mighty is: apparently a web browser that is faster. If that is the selling point, I can see why he quit working on it.
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iworshipfaangs2超过 2 年前
I actually thought about this company recently, because slack, zoom, Google suite, and all the other work apps perform so badly on my linux machine. Even with an i9 I get occasional full utilization. I thought I might just embrace the meme and outsource my browser. I only use chrome for work anyway. Too bad, Mighty, it is possible a similar business might work some day to centralize corporate work environments.
raverbashing超过 2 年前
This is one startup I never &quot;bought&quot;. Sure, they have an interesting product, but it is not something I would pay for<p>As other comment said, it&#x27;s a vitamin, not a painkiller. And you can always buy a new computer or upgrade it. Would it really make me much difference to run a browser in a much more powerful computer than the one I&#x27;m at? Only in extremely limited situations
hmate9超过 2 年前
Suhail’s Twitter is definitely worth a follow as he is regularly tweeting about the everyday problems and challenges of running a startup. If you’re interested in the space it’s a good mix of technical and startup challenges and is one of the few Twitter accounts that provides great content all the time (in my opinion)
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smaudet超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s decent tech, I don&#x27;t think the market was there for it, though.<p>The problem with too many tabs wasn&#x27;t primarily performance, although that was a part of it (disabling background tabs is a better optimization), it was that there were too many tabs.<p>So, cool tech but I don&#x27;t think most people needed it.
fulafel超过 2 年前
&gt; Much of the web is bound by single core performance of JS.<p>I feel my web experience is mostly bound by other browser things than JS. I wonder what would be the best way to profile this.
yubiox超过 2 年前
Is there anything like this that I can run myself? My phone does not load some pages well and I would like to browser stream from my own server.
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rognjen超过 2 年前
I think they&#x27;re yet another example of a company that had a good idea but then wildly over-promised. Just like Occulus.
theGnuMe超过 2 年前
What does Mighty offer beyond app streaming?
xwowsersx超过 2 年前
What is Mighty?
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memish超过 2 年前
Good pivot and a humbling reminder for us all. Jonathan Blow on the day this was announced, &quot;Very hard to describe how embarrassing this is for everyone involved in the Web and, sort of, software more generally.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Jonathan_Blow&#x2F;status&#x2F;1387094702139142145" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Jonathan_Blow&#x2F;status&#x2F;1387094702139142145</a><p>&gt; Wait, Paul Graham supported this?<p>Jonathan: Very vocally, to the point of insulting world-class programmers who think it’s dumb (he did not know said programmers were world-class).<p>&gt; Huh, I see. I thought he&#x27;s all pro elegant and lean solutions, judging by the books and articles at least.<p>Jonathan: Yeah it doesn&#x27;t make sense to me either.
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IceWreck超过 2 年前
Called it here back when it launched. Streaming video of a slightly more powerful browser in a browser (electron) never made sense to me.<p>And the few people who really had that usecase could just use a lightweight container running chromium + guacamole on a nearby server. Okay I&#x27;m sure Mighty used cool tech to make it faster than just that (idk how it worked but maybe they were transmitting changed HTML) but at its core the idea was not something normal people and 99% engineers would ever consider. Anyone rich enough to pay for it would just pay for a more powerful machine.<p>Anyways, they said they have 50% of VC money left and will be using it to create an online stable diffusion thingy which atleast fifteen startups are doing already including stability AI themselves. How can they differentiate ? Can they just use leftover VC money to make a completely different thing ?
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tpush超过 2 年前
Would be great if PG got more humble as a result, but something tells me that&#x27;s never gonna happen.
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OmarIsmail超过 2 年前
Mighty as an idea was cool and interesting and I hope the tech survives and continues to be developed. Fat clients have their place in the world but a solution like Mighty allows for a lot of the benefits of a fat client without a lot of the downsides.<p>I think this is a really interesting decision from Suhail and one not taken lightly. I think this decision is another data point that AI-infused applications are a potential new “tech platform” and we’re at the beginning of a new “mega cycle”. I.e. web2 2002-2010, mobile 2010-2020.<p>Folks shouldn’t be spending much energy on thinking about how Mighty may have gone wrong (and seriously the negative analysis is so boring and lame), and instead think about the new AI opportunity.