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The sinister attempts to ‘decolonise’ mathematics

188 点作者 cm_silva超过 2 年前

27 条评论

causi超过 2 年前
<i>In this world view it is not insulting to suggest non-Europeans prefer ‘other ways of knowing’ to rationality and science.</i><p>This reminds me of that &quot;racial sensitivity guide&quot; that told employees punctuality and logical objectivity were &quot;white expectations&quot; not to be applied to persons of color.<p><i>In New Zealand the school chemistry and biology syllabus has been decolonised and now invokes the concept of mauri, or life force, to give the atomic theory a new spiritual dimension.</i><p>I went to high school and college so deep in the bible belt you could put an empty Coke can to your ear and hear banjo music and our textbooks <i>still</i> didn&#x27;t have anything like that bullshit.
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bnjemian超过 2 年前
Not so long ago I was a PhD student in a STEM department. With the amount of DEI and antiracist discussions had during our department meetings, it often felt that I was attending an MBA program designed for HR professionals.<p>Do I have anything against diversity, equity, inclusion? No.<p>Did I often wish the department – which was already extremely diverse in age, gender, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, and citizenship status – would focus more on the work of doing good science, facilitating rich academic discourse, fostering cross-institutional collaborations, and driving more translation and commercial ventures? Yes. 100%, yes.<p>In many ways, DEI initiatives, anti-racist policies, and decolonization aspire to worthy goals. Too often, though, they feel like the product of meme-driven corporate training and consulting firms who charge wholly unequipped professionals with disparate expertise with framing their work with a funhouse mirror of their on-the-ground reality.<p>There has to be a better way.
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jvvw超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve taught maths at a few universities and until recently taught computing at a university, teaching algorithms etc (and am female if that is relevant!). I ended up recently at a talk at the university where they were talking about decolonising the computing curriculum.<p>One of the thing that I felt hadn&#x27;t been taken into account was that as lecturers we are qualified to teaching computing&#x2F;maths not to teach history&#x2F;social sciences. I really didn&#x27;t feel like I should be teaching history when I stopped learning history at school aged 15. The course I was teaching covered Turing machines and I&#x27;d feel very weird suddenly diverting into discussing that Turing was gay (but he&#x27;s also a white male just to complicate things...). It all felt like a massive distraction from actually trying to teach the materials better.<p>I have to admit that when I was a student, it never really bothered me at all that all theorems were named after men (perhaps Noether got in there somewhere, but I really can&#x27;t think of anybody else). They just felt like names to me and I was interested in the maths not the history. It had much more of an impact on me seeing female lecturers teaching and doing research.
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nonrandomstring超过 2 年前
I think this sort of thing is overstated to provoke political outrage and distract from the real socio-economic disaster unfolding in higher education. It&#x27;s certainly one minor symptom, but only a small example of how we&#x27;ve lost our way on a much grander scale.<p>&gt; It is easy when you work at a university to roll your eyes at this sort of thing and play along.<p>But that&#x27;s not what happens. You roll your eyes, smile and then blatantly and insubordinately forget about it. No one ever follows up. No one cares, except that one over-worked bullshit compliance officer whose softly-worded &quot;advisories&quot; get tactically directed to spam.<p>Most people are already sensitive enough to teach incorporating a rich cultural history and awareness of &quot;colonial values&quot; (expeciallin maths which is practically a history of India, Persia and China), since it is precisely the bad sides of those values that are harming our own institutions today.<p>People in British universities have more important stuff on their plate at the moment, like dealing with a massive crisis in student disaffection, debt, and mental health problems, lecturer strike action, recruitment problems...
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hfbff超过 2 年前
Unfortunately the selection of criticisms is not great. I agree with some, but then it mixes it with things like<p>&gt;The UK Office for National Statistics has already succumbed to such ideas, proposing that respondents should be allowed to self-identify their sex in the 2021 census.<p>This is something we&#x27;ve been doing in my country for decades and I don&#x27;t see a problem with it (the alternative is to ask the person that does the census to take a guess on the gender of the person...sometimes it&#x27;s easy, sometimes not so much)
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Garlef超过 2 年前
Mediocre&#x2F;bad article. It&#x27;s mostly a rant against decolonisation in general.<p>The actual treatment of why this mostly does not apply to maths is very thin.<p>And there actually is a problem with the notion of mathematical truth: Not within mathematics itself but in its transfer to sociological questions. Here, simply presupposing that concepts can be defined with a universal meaning and statements have a universal truth is simply not true. Mathematics is not advanced enough to discuss these matters properly. (So: New notions need to developed)<p>Since most readers here have a background in programming, here&#x27;s an analogy of what the issues are: Sociology is about distributed systems. And these are more complicated. For example thinking about time in distributed systems requires quite a lot of non-trivial tech (vector clocks, etc). It&#x27;s even more complicated for sociological notions.<p>But in general, I agree: The topic mostly does not apply to maths.
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WindyMiller超过 2 年前
&gt; The QAA themselves don’t explain what decolonising means.<p>Presumably this is a good thing, given the complaint:<p>&gt; But by requiring that all subject areas include these topics, the QAA is homogenising university teaching and diminishing true diversity of thought.<p>The &#x27;sinister attempt&#x27; here is literally just advice to have a bit of a think about this stuff when you&#x27;re covering areas where it might be relevant, like the history of mathematics; and to consider the diverse needs of your students. An academic who chooses to follow that recommendation has huge scope to determine how they do so.<p>The rest is just baggage Armstrong is bringing to it, and is very much his problem.
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l5870uoo9y超过 2 年前
I deeply oppose the reading of history that judge historical events and persons with today&#x27;s moral. With that measurement your grandparents would properly hold immoral opinions. Historical context is essential and I hope future generations also apply this when judging us.
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kleiba超过 2 年前
The problem is, I think the people behind that <i>mean</i> well - they really do. But, unfortunately, in a mindcuffs echo chamber kind of way that is removed from the rest of society. Of course, you could argue that this description fits the early stages of <i>any</i> grassroots movement. However, I think this is not grass roots at all - at this point, it&#x27;s a loud minority.<p>And whether you agree with their position or not, I think, the woke movement is not proceeding very strategically. Granted, so far their approach - which basically boils down to &quot;lots of pressure&quot; - has been admirably successful. Yet, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s going to be sustainable. I see a real risk that the tide might be turning and a backlash will happen when the pressure gets too much on those that feel pressurized. This could destroy a lot of successes of the woke campaign, which could be avoided if those pushing these ideas tried to be appear less confrontational, matter-of-factly, and aggressive.<p>For instance, instead of presenting a proposal like the one hand at hand &quot;top down&quot; - which now meets a predictable opposition - it could be a more successful long-term strategy to get all of the affected people into the same boat first, and then move forward with strong support, rather than dropping suggestions for what appear like radical changes.<p>I suppose, though, that one reason this latter strategy hasn&#x27;t already been pursued in some fields is that the opposition, like in this article, just immediately makes more sense, which then leaves little hope to get the changes implemented.
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throwboi123超过 2 年前
As an asian dude that grew up in Asia, despite my western education, in a western country, I don’t really care.<p>As in, sure whatever you say, just give me the core stuffs, and I’ll pretend that I care.<p>Take what’s good, discard what’s not. If math is good, take it, if decolonized math is bad, throw it away, and vice versa. I acknowledge different cultures have different strengths and weaknesses in different areas. White people invent math? Good, take it. Black people invent jazz? Good, take it.<p>White people invent genocide? Reject it. Black people invent ghetto culture? Reject it.
gyulai超过 2 年前
I suppose what they really want, although &quot;decolonise&quot; is a very weird word for it, is for teachers to throw in enough information about the biographies behind the big names in math for students to not engage in unreflected hero worship.
pannSun超过 2 年前
Wouldn&#x27;t decolonization, in the context of Britain*, imply ridding itself of foreign influence and focusing on its native heritage? In contrast, the way &#x27;decolonise&#x27; is being thrown around looks more like de-Europeanisation - the demands are the same, regardless of location.<p>*Naturally this does not apply to the examples from New Zealand.
proc0超过 2 年前
Anyone who thinks this is a valid idea should stop using chairs, speaking English, and using eating utensils, because those are literally products of colonialism (in the Americas). Some civilizations where more advanced than others hundreds of years ago... wow, what a cruel world... welcome to Earth.
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meigwilym超过 2 年前
This is a charity asking teaching establishments to follow its recommendations. They are perfectly within their rights to ignore this. Nothing very sinister going on.
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rofo1超过 2 年前
If anything at all is objective, it&#x27;s mathematics. Anyone can verify if the statements are true, independently. Granted, some of the statements are massively complicated, so not everyone can do it reasonably fast; however when you state something, typically you need to prove it.<p>I (naively) thought this protected this particular discipline from &quot;modern politics&quot; or whatever we want to call this insanity that is spreading. I worry that we might reach a place where people believe that 1+1 is not exactly 2, it is dependent on the emotions of the person uttering the words, akin to the current discussions of male&#x2F;female, genders, pronouns and so on.<p>It looks weird even typing this, but I am sure someone in 19th or 20th century would say the same thing about the current state of what is a man, what is a woman, who gives birth.. things that are so obvious that but yet disputed.<p>I don&#x27;t understand what can be done about people legitimately believing insane things. I have no doubt that they believe what they are saying. We ought not to fund it with tax $ at least.. disappointing.<p>&gt; The QAA’s benchmark document that defines the common mathematics curriculum has grown in length by 50 per cent in just three years, but not because of any radical shift in the nature of the mathematics. Instead there has been a been a decision to introduce teaching on diversity,<p>Just like the communists forced Marxism upon everyone, and Nazi Germany did the same thing to their youth. I expected Math would be the last place to be infected with this, but it has happened. We&#x27;ll see how much it spreads.<p>&gt; Activists also have statistics in their sights. One academic review of school statistics textbooks ‘with a theoretical framework of queer theory and critical mathematics’ notes disapprovingly that ‘pregnancy was used frequently in problems involving females&#x2F;women.’<p>Cannot be distinguished from pure comedy. What a reality we are living in.
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cm_silva超过 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;SAI6f" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;SAI6f</a>
Febra33超过 2 年前
&quot;Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education (QAA) – an independent charity which reviews university courses – launched a consultation that urged universities to teach a ‘decolonised view’ of mathematics.&quot;<p>Yet another pointless piece written by some click hungry &quot;journalists&quot;. Don&#x27;t get me wrong, what that charity has done is simply put stupid, but does it deserve an article?<p>This is just the casual rage-bait article meant to create a discussion around a stupid take by some random charity that is not even taken seriously by anyone.
bjt2n3904超过 2 年前
Still shocked to find the apologists for these blatantly racist ideas lurking here in the comments.<p>No, there is nothing good about &quot;decolonizing&quot;, &quot;equity&quot;, DEI, anti racism, or any of your other rubbish Marxist ideas. They are destructive ideas that tear down everything that we&#x27;ve built post enlightenment.<p>Look at what it&#x27;s doing to education. In Virginia, we tried to stop teaching advanced math in high school, because it was creating &quot;inequitable&quot; situations. Should we get rid of gyms too? I&#x27;ve been lifting weights every week, but I&#x27;m still not as strong as an athlete!<p>And still the apologists for these ideas will rush to the comments and say it&#x27;s well meaning and just poorly implemented, misunderstood, or outright deny that these things are happening. It boggles the mind.
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nathias超过 2 年前
These ideas are philosophically void, but really thrive in practice. I think it has to do with encoding population into discrete identities, this is why buraucracies love it, it&#x27;s like building an API between populations and institutions. Instead of going through a process of representation (like a union or voting) you simply assign yourself a ready made identity and get represented.
bell-cot超过 2 年前
For those unfamiliar - <i>The Spectator</i> can occasionally be an interesting read, but their business model is generally far closer to &quot;push all the right-wing buttons&quot; than to &quot;objective and factual information source&quot;.
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SilverBirch超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s always a bit funny listening to people complain about this, because at best they&#x27;re naive about what they&#x27;re criticising and at worst they&#x27;re deliberately misrepresenting it.<p>For example, the author here states<p>&gt;There is nothing particularly European about rational knowledge. Maths has always been an astonishingly international pursuit. The digits 0123456789 we use today were first written in India and inspired by Chinese mathematics.<p>Yes, I agree, the history of Maths isn&#x27;t particularly western or imperialist, so let&#x27;s look at what the consultation said about decolonizing maths:<p>&gt;for example, decolonising the curriculum can involve explicit reflection on the history of MSOR [maths] knowledge generation<p>Right, so in your <i>complaint</i> about &quot;decolonizing&quot; you totally agree with their example of decolonizing maths.<p>Again, from the author:<p>&gt;There are genuine issues around race that mathematics needs to address. For example, we don’t have as many black maths lecturers as we should.<p>and from the consultation:<p>&gt; for example, decolonising the curriculum can involve ... reflecting on how delivery or admission practices might adversely impact on certain subgroups within the student cohort.<p>So again, why is this author writing a petition to oppose the thing he supports?<p>My guess would be that the author has picked up some far right talking points from the same people that bought you &quot;Critical Race theory is a marxist plot&quot;- the telltale sign is the weird tangent about &quot;rational knowledge&quot; being superior to other kinds of knowledge- a talking point straight out of the CRT panic.
benj111超过 2 年前
I think they mean &#x27;de-colonialise&#x27; rather than decolonise.<p>Seems like a strange error to make considering the number of times the term is used.<p>Edit: Ok apparently this is an accepted term. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Decolonization" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Decolonization</a><p>I have no idea why as colonise and decolonise already mean things. And colonial is a distinct thing.
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Overtonwindow超过 2 年前
I’m continually baffled by the woke idea that equality means lowering standards, rather than raising expectations and performance.
sumo89超过 2 年前
Weird to see a right wing opinion piece posted on hacker news, even weirder to see the only downvoted comments are ones pointing out the reputation and editorial style of The Spectator. That of being a wordy Dail Mail. Maybe Hackernews has become too mainstream.
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bazhova超过 2 年前
A British academic &quot;rolling eyes&quot; at efforts to decolonise their material. Yikes but also typical. Mathematics is a pure subject, and logic itself is not colonial. Of course. But academic institutions do retain aspects of colonialism in their teaching. It&#x27;s not a wild idea to take a moment and consider how your department may be complicit.
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bowsamic超过 2 年前
I had once thought that it is ridiculous to suggest that rational thought might possibly be not superior to other forms of thought, until I spent some time as a Buddhist, in Buddhist spaces. Then I saw first hand how rationality is indeed used in a euro supremacist way to smack down anything that doesn’t fit in that framework. Everything from mocking Asian Buddhists as “backwards rednecks” for having traditional views on Buddhism, to even claiming that the Buddha only said the non rational, religious things to placate the stupid people and that really he was a rational philosopher. I’ve seen the erosion and closure of traditional Buddhist spaces in the west in favour of rationalised versions that remove the traditional elements. So I can definitely empathise with seeing the promotion of rational thought as white supremacist. That said, mathematics in the west was always rational, so I don’t see how the decolonisation argument is useful here. Mathematics isn’t an ancient religion like Buddhism, it is rationally constructed
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tomlockwood超过 2 年前
&gt; As one example, one such diversity course at Kent university requires all students to affirm that ‘sex is, in fact, a diverse, multi-expressive form of identity and a full spectrum.’<p>Correct, there are multiple continuous quantifiers which we can use to determine sex and therefore it is a multimodal distribution.
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