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Most Ordinary Americans in 2016 Are Richer Than Was John D. Rockefeller in 1916

24 点作者 pr337h4m超过 2 年前

12 条评论

woodruffw超过 2 年前
Miserable stuff. Ordinary Americans in 2016 might have <i>creature comforts</i> that weren&#x27;t available to John D. Rockefeller, but this does not somehow translate to being &quot;richer than&quot; Rockefeller.<p>Rockefeller&#x27;s wealth can be seen 100 years later, in forms that no creature comfort can surpass: media and political power, generations of rich and powerful children, and countless buildings and institutions named after his family. None of that is meaningfully offset by the fact that it&#x27;s easier for me to keep ice cream cold, that I can travel to France a little bit faster (but a whole lot less comfortably), or that I can watch content produced by his progeny online whenever I please.
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abraxas超过 2 年前
What the author misses is that we perceive our welfare by measuring it against our peers. The people of 1918 had no idea what inventions were coming in 100 years and even if they could postulate some of them it was purely in the realm of science fiction for them. Not to mention, imagine the excitement of witnessing stuff like refrigeration, transoceanic flight, television, radio, telephone, mass mobility all come online during your lifetime.<p>Of course knowing what one knows today one might be tempted by the creature comforts that our complex society affords us but personally given the choice of being born John Rockefeller or being born myself I&#x27;d be kinda tempted by the former. It&#x27;s hard to overstate how status contributes to one&#x27;s perception of well being. Rich people 100 years ago did not feel deprived because they had no YouTube. They had parties and shows and concubines to keep the boredom out. Come to think of it even knowing what I know about the 21st century I&#x27;d probably take the Rockefeller deal... maybe I&#x27;m unusual.<p>EDIT Alas there is a 21st century version of the earth that I would not trade for the riches of a robber baron. But that version of the earth does not exist nor is it likely to come into being in the next few decades that I might have. Such earth has no Twitter but instead has peace and prosperity across the world no matter the continent. Has no climate crisis to resolve and cancers and similarly devastating diagnoses are mere inconveniences akin to sniffles. In this utopian earth the ecosystems are being cherished rather than exploited and economic improvements don&#x27;t come at the expense of future generations. In this alternative earth the pursuit of knowledge and art are the most well respected pursuits and those who are best remembered are ones who most contributed to such endeavors during their lifetimes. In other words, complete fantasy and utopia. But that would be a world I&#x27;d refuse to trade for the Rockefeller status.<p>So yeah, tell me again how to do that robber baron thing?
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throw149102超过 2 年前
One of the major problems of modern-day life is that we are <i>constantly</i> bombarded with indicators of our status - in particular how low it is compared to the elites.<p>You might think that you could merely escape this by getting of social media, but in reality it&#x27;s in the physical world too. Every single advertisement is trying to create a void in the viewer, in an attempt to get you to purchase their product. Every billboard, every TV ad, every time you walk into a supermarket... Even if ads don&#x27;t work on you 99% of the time, the 1% that filter through to your subconscious can really wreck you.<p>John D. Rockefeller might have been poor compared to our times, in the same way that Julius Caesar or Genghis Khan was. But they didn&#x27;t have the <i>constant</i> reminder of all the ways they were lacking. The average Roman soldier was 5&#x27;5&quot;, and I doubt many of them felt short. I&#x27;ve heard stories of men getting leg-lengthening surgery to go from 5&#x27;10&quot; to 6&#x27;0&quot;, which if you don&#x27;t know is an <i>agonizing</i> procedure of slowly getting your bones pulled beyond their maximum ability to stretch, which takes weeks or even months to even get back to being able to walk.<p>The all-too-easy answer to this is to just say &quot;Well, comparison is the thief of joy, so just don&#x27;t compare yourself&quot;. But if you want to compete in the job marketplace, or to be considered on dating apps, or just in general to participate in society it&#x27;s almost a necessity to compare yourself to your peers. Obviously we should all be like the Buddha and not be drawn to comparison but it&#x27;s a hell of a lot easier to do that when you&#x27;re the guy on top.<p>I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve ever found a single person, in real life or online, who never compares themselves to another person. So we should accept that equality in status (and not just in pure-stuff) is an essential ingredient to a happy, functional society.
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bombcar超过 2 年前
The real generation-proof measure of wealth and power is the number of people who are at your beck and call.<p>And most people don’t have nearly the reach Rockefeller did, even if they materially live better than him by some or most (all?) metrics.
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kevinventullo超过 2 年前
An interesting corollary to extrapolate is that even a billionaire today might have a “destitute” living standard according to people hundreds of years from now. It’s fun to imagine why that might be.
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analog31超过 2 年前
One way to think about it was that lack of access to modern health care, safe drinking water, and timely access to global knowledge (etc), were not moral issues in 1916 because they didn&#x27;t exist or were not technically feasible. And this is with the acknowledgement that we aren&#x27;t entirely up to standard in these areas. Wealth could be measured against what any given age considers to be an reasonably achievable quality of life.
inawarminister超过 2 年前
&quot;Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven&quot; - John Milton.<p>Seems a lot of people agree, what with the popularity of portal fantasy and isekai reincarnation stories. Magic does make living in them more convenient than real history.<p>Still, getting glory as a bona-fide warrior &quot;hero&quot; is a different kind of happiness than modern urbanite... But it is still a kind of happiness. Some of us might prefer it.
Finnucane超过 2 年前
The house I live in now was originally built for factory workers. It’s worth a lot of money now because the ‘factories’ nearby are all pharma and biotech. The place my great grandparents lived when they came here from Romania with nothing is now an expensive condo. So I guess they were doing better than they thought.
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hackeraccount超过 2 年前
Would you rather be a person at your current level of wealth in 100 years or Elon Musk? Assuming you get to take your friends and family with you.<p>100 years for me is probably a yes - just on the chance to indulge my curiosity and also because at Musk-like levels of wealth I think you&#x27;re past what I&#x27;d be interested in doing with money and gotten to the &quot;more money more problems&quot; stage.<p>200+ years is a no brainer.
halpmeh超过 2 年前
The author could have thought about this claim for like two seconds and realized how ridiculous it is. Rockefeller and multiple generations of descendants can live off his wealth. Clearly he was able to buy more with his money than an ordinary American can buy.
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slavboj超过 2 年前
Asinine to reduce &quot;wealth&quot; to &quot;quality of middle class consumer goods available&quot;, as if a Soros or a Trump&#x27;s top priority is having the most accurate wristwatch. Rockefeller was able to, for instance, insert multiple of his family into high political office. He had a retinue of servants available that freed his time essentially to his complete discretion. He was able to personally finance and set the priorities of multiple educational institutions. His charitable foundation had &#x2F; has its fingers in multiple social movements for good and ill, maintaining influence in what is likely to be perpetuity.<p>But you&#x27;ve got air conditioning and MRIs, congratulations (Rockefeller lived to be 97 without those btw).
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anonymouskimmer超过 2 年前
&quot;Honestly, I wouldn’t be remotely tempted to quit the 2016 me so that I could be a one-billion-dollar-richer me in 1916.&quot;<p>I wouldn&#x27;t trade my current circumstances for Elon Musk&#x27;s or Jeff Bezos&#x27; current lives. Does that somehow make me richer than them? And I&#x27;m currently eating the likes of potatoes, oatmeal, and pasta.<p>- A&#x2F;C is nice.<p>- I certainly can&#x27;t afford to fly anywhere.<p>- I pretty much don&#x27;t care about package delivery times most of the time.<p>- Radio is nice, as is Youtube (don&#x27;t have a TV anymore). But back then you could count on everyone and their uncle to carry a tune or play an instrument. These days most of us can&#x27;t make our own music to enjoy anymore, and are fully dependent on radio or streaming.<p>- Most movies aren&#x27;t worth watching. The live theater experience is great though, even when it&#x27;s done by amateurs.<p>- Being expected to carry around a phone kind of sucks, especially for those like me who don&#x27;t connect to data services. No, I can&#x27;t check my email on my phone.<p>- I just spent 2&#x2F;3rds of my life savings replacing a car I crashed with a used car that gets worse gas mileage than the old car. It would be nice not needing a car to commute with.<p>- &quot;Thai red curry or Vindaloo chicken or Vietnamese Pho or a falafel&quot;. As stated above, I&#x27;m out of luck for that anyway. I can&#x27;t even justify buying the better tasting pasta sauces anymore. Still, I get it. But the funny thing is I don&#x27;t crave tastes that I&#x27;ve never tasted before. So I don&#x27;t see access to ethnic foods as that much enriching.<p>- I do think the bare bones Comcast internet connection is worth the $53 per month it costs.<p>- I&#x27;ve been to a primary care physician once in the past couple of decades. An emergency room twice, a broken bone clinic once, and about twenty years ago needed my head stitched up from a snowboarding accident (which wouldn&#x27;t have happened had I lived long ago). I&#x27;ve always healed fast from cuts without needing antibiotics.<p>- That era was the nadir of medical childbirth.<p>- Fluoride is quite nice, but haven&#x27;t been to a dentist in 8 years.<p>- Regular specs have always been fine with me.<p>- Birth control is nice.<p>- But they had ragtime, man.<p>- Manually syncing all of the non-connected clocks to DST is annoying.