Effectivealtruism.org purchased a £15M estate for its headquarters in 2021

Before commenting, I recommend reading this thread as well: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.effectivealtruism.org&#x2F;posts&#x2F;xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG&#x2F;why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.effectivealtruism.org&#x2F;posts&#x2F;xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG&#x2F;...</a><p>Particularly the top reply: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.effectivealtruism.org&#x2F;posts&#x2F;xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG&#x2F;why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=u3yJfbm2pes8TFpYX" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.effectivealtruism.org&#x2F;posts&#x2F;xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG&#x2F;...</a><p>Of course, not everyone will agree with their decision, but it wasn’t done haphazardly. Here’s an excerpt:<p>&gt; We had various calculations about costings, which made it look somewhere between “moderately money-saving” and “mildly money-spending” vs renting venues for events that would happen anyway, depending on various assumptions e.g. about usage that we couldn’t get great data on before running the experiment. The main case for the project was not a cost-saving one, but that if it was a success it could generate many more valuable workshops than would otherwise exist. Note that this is a much less expensive experiment than it may look on face value, since we retain the underlying asset of the building.

In [1] I hosted Hugh Sinclair, who spent 10 years on the front lines of microfinance lending. What does that have to do with this? As he says:<p>The first thing a lot of the microfinance outfits in Africa do is buy new SUVs for the staff. Because, you know, they can&#x27;t be taking a bus to go give loans to the poor, now can they?<p>This is the same sort of thinking: first take care of yourself. If there&#x27;s any more needs you can&#x27;t fill, ask for donations.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rhdZ2RfmiXo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rhdZ2RfmiXo</a>

used to support them but what a fucking joke. most of the world&#x27;s renowned scientific research, including at universities, takes place in drab boxy office buildings. look at caltech. &quot;creative thinking&quot; has nothing to do with the buildings. such waste.

Good to see what EA is about…a private club for people with a lot of disposable income to pat each other on the backs for supposedly doing good…if they were so concerned about effective altruism, then they won’t be doing this.<p>Anyways, it’s not a lot different from the few non-profits I’ve had experience with.

It is not effectuve altruism it is yen buddhism. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.lspace.org&#x2F;Yen_Buddhism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.lspace.org&#x2F;Yen_Buddhism</a><p>Don&#x27;t get fooled.

I find this very disappointing - to me one of the main points of EA is trying to maximise proven effectiveness &amp; minimising unnecessary overheads. Where is the evidence that hosting so many in-person conferences is much more effective than a rare large in-person conference + many &quot;mini-conferences&quot; online?<p>There are still many organisations that seem to be doing excellent work aligned with the EA ethos. The Life You Can Save, GiveWell and Animal Charity Evaluators are still updating their charity reviews. I hope the brand damage doesn&#x27;t reduce their donations!

If you really care about <i>effective</i> altruism, the only thing you should look at is the outcome, that is verifiable facts, not the verbiage.<p>It is way too easy to lie with language, this is why we have so many bullshit artists.<p>The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

FTX donated $13.9 million to them. Will they return this money to investors? [1] They can sell this estate to do so.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;11&#x2F;13&#x2F;business&#x2F;ftx-effective-altruism.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;11&#x2F;13&#x2F;business&#x2F;ftx-effective-al...</a><p>&quot;The second-largest grant, in the amount of $13.9 million, went to the Center for Effective Altruism.&quot;

I am in two minds about it. It costs less than top exec yearly compensation, and probably less than a lot of London office floors (presumably ?).<p>That said, there are cheaper ways to fire up the imagination of these luminaries: some decent grade tents in the woods, campfires etc. Sort of a poor mans burning man. I think the connection to nature and simplicity, and having slugs crawl on you at night, would create that creative bubble they are looking for.<p>Optics are important too, and even if this estate is genuinely good for how the money is spent, there is no way the average charity donator will see this. Also I reckon anyone well connected enough to be an EA doesn&#x27;t need accommodation or money or a job to survive.

If it talks like a scam and walks like a scam, it is a scam.

A perhaps relevant parable: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;astralcodexten.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-prophet-and-caesars-wife" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;astralcodexten.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-prophet-and-caesar...</a>

Ok I know I’m the outlier here but I’m some ways I really don’t feel outraged about this and I almost understand it?<p>The foundation still owns the property, and if money was still going to the right places is it the end of the world?<p>I wonder where people would actually suggest they’d have their head quarters ? I know individuals who spend 2&#x2F;10ths of they on their personal house so for a foundation it doesn’t see too outrageous.<p>the tweet is scant on details, maybe a foundations member donated the money for that specific property ?<p>Seems like Twitter is always looking for some thing &#x2F; someone to lynch?

<i>“Huh?” Collins said. “I don’t know. What would you suggest?”<p>“Small mansion,” the man said promptly. “They usually start with that.”<p>“They do?”<p>“Oh, yes. Later, they move to a warm climate and build a palace.”</i><p>Something for nothing, R. Sheckley

Someone needs to write a Christmas themed satire about &quot;elf-ective altruism&quot; where the elves decide they can do more good by saving childrens lives in the developing world and everyone awkwardly agrees even though it&#x27;s a buzz kill.<p>I&#x27;m not sure exactly how you get to them buying expensive HQs and worrying about time travelling robots sent by evil AI and existential risks to near infinite future space-faring children&#x27;s gifts but I&#x27;m not sure how the real EA made that leap either.

Better that they throw away &quot;their&quot; money on stuff like this instead of trying to exert control over AI

next step: driving a rolls royce, as they can be good for the voice.

What a racket...<p>If it talks like a racket...<p>Why didn&#x27;t they just go the whole hog and buy a megachurch?

I wouldn&#x27;t object to owning a place for reunion, but that&#x27;s <i>a lot</i> of money. It does have historical value but even then, I think a more accessible place and better equipped for meetings and creativity would be far better. And although it is historical, it&#x27;s debatable if that is aligned with EA&#x27;s mission (if the house were like falling apart maybe that could be justified, but it doesn&#x27;t seem the case). It really seems like the grant money got to their heads.

The more I hear about EA, the more I think it is becoming the World Economic Forum for for zoomers. You may or may not think this is a good thing.

They turned £15 million worth of crypto currency into real currency, that will no doubt be realised at some point in the future.

The capital appreciation of a listed building can be high, but is not always high. &quot;it depends&quot;<p>So from a non-altruistic PoV it may, or may not turn out to be a sound investment irrespective of it&#x27;s utility as a venue right now.<p>As a venue, it may be profoundly attractive, induce all the right moods for visitors, and be sellable for service (weddings, funerals, videos..) so supplement income.<p>Have known occupants of listed buildings in the UK, stately homes. Mostly, tenants who got them off the National Trust on peppercorn rent for putting up with the perpetual damp.<p>If they are seeking investment funding having a villains lair (is there a dungeon? is it in working order?), or a mansion, might project the right kind of message to people with money who want to be altruistic. If they want to deal with poor people, less so.

Seems pretty standard for large long term institutions. See universities and religions. Investing in this kind of stuff seems pretty tested and effective

I don&#x27;t see any problem with this. Buying a building for £15M doesn&#x27;t make you £15M poorer because you can sell the building later. Additionally, as the funding came from a grant specifically for this purpose, it&#x27;s not money they could have spent on other things, but the money they save by not paying conference centres can be spent elsewhere.

EA is the Scientology of our time.

did they ever say why? a quick glance through the twitter thread doesnt reveal anything

I used to support them until they jumped on the diversity bandwagon. I believe humanity has bigger issues to tackle right now.<p>The ftx involvement signals to me that they did not do their due diligence, supposedly their main job. A 15M estate in Oxford? Looks to me like their decision criteria is not aligned with what they preach.

Giving them money was the effective altruism, its in the name the whole time

What events were held there, exactly, and how was the space used ?

Link should be changed to something that&#x27;s not an informationless rant. Just look at the &quot;discussion&quot; going on. Looks more like a set of villagers with pitchforks than a hacker news thread.

That&#x27;s a pretty nice house for only $15M

The purchase was made a year ago.<p>Can we at least check how this estate was used since the purchase before lashing out onto EA for doing this purchase?

Kumbayah AI, Kumbayah~<p>Kumbayah AI, Kumbayah

Definitely not something a cult would do

Yeah this whole FTX thing has to be some sort of government op. At this point it makes less sense that it is not.

Considering the orgy parties they had in the Bahamas penthouse, it&#x27;s like Eyes Wide Shut fantasies come to life<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=LaIdHUx7FQg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=LaIdHUx7FQg</a>