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Yan tan tethera pethera pimp – an old system for counting sheep (2013)

98 点作者 vector_spaces超过 2 年前

14 条评论

Schattenbaer超过 2 年前
Terry Pratchett refers to this counting system in the Tiffany Aching[1] books.<p>Tiffany is called &quot;jiggit&quot; (the Yorkshire Dales word for twenty according to the article) by her grandmother as she is her granny&#x27;s twentieth grandchild.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tiffany_Aching" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tiffany_Aching</a>
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dblack12705超过 2 年前
This counting system is fascinating! I wrote an article about this as well:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;maximumeffort.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;a-brief-history-of-dik" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;maximumeffort.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;a-brief-history-of-dik</a>
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082349872349872超过 2 年前
Shepherds (and ranchers) count moving things, so they stand at the gate and use fingers, winding up with groupings of 10s.<p>Bakers count stationary things, so they like obvious groups of rectangles, and 3x4 is much nicer than 5x2, winding up with groupings of 12s.<p>To this day hot dogs and buns are sold in incommensurate packages.<p>(also, might 20s in numbering systems come about because 2x10 and 4x5 is a nice number for both ranchers and bakers?)
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I_complete_me超过 2 年前
Here&#x27;s Jake Thackray singing a song with this in it. Wonderful stuff. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=TiXINuf5nbI" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=TiXINuf5nbI</a>.<p>Edit: Just noticed this is referenced in the article. Sorry.
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Gordonjcp超过 2 年前
The Welsh one seems closest to Scots Gaelic, interestingly, because the two languages aren&#x27;t all that similar.<p>Aon, Dhà, Trì, Ceithir, and when you get to 9 Naoi, and then Deich. And then you start aon deug, dhà deug and so on. Fichead for 20 is much more like &quot;jiggit&quot; of Scots, Lakes, and Dales than ugain from Welsh, though.
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reedf1超过 2 年前
I&#x27;m not sure I quite get it. Or at least the article doesn&#x27;t make much sense of it.<p>Is the idea that this is a helpful system because of it&#x27;s rhyming? I&#x27;ve been trying to imagine how that would help counting sheep, but just can&#x27;t come up with it.
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throwaway81523超过 2 年前
Before that, it was even more cumbersome. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;math.ucr.edu&#x2F;home&#x2F;baez&#x2F;week121.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;math.ucr.edu&#x2F;home&#x2F;baez&#x2F;week121.html</a> :<p>&gt; Long ago, when shepherds wanted to see if two herds of sheep were isomorphic, they would look for an explicit isomorphism. In other words, they would line up both herds and try to match each sheep in one herd with a sheep in the other. But one day, along came a shepherd who invented decategorification. She realized one could take each herd and “count” it, setting up an isomorphism between it and some set of “numbers”, which were nonsense words like “one, two, three,…” specially designed for this purpose. By comparing the resulting numbers, she could show that two herds were isomorphic without explicitly establishing an isomorphism! In short, by decategorifying the category of finite sets, the set of natural numbers was invented.
ndsipa_pomu超过 2 年前
I first heard of this from an Adrian Edmondson and The Bad Shepherds album: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.co.uk&#x2F;Yan-Tyan-Tethera-Metheral-Shepherds&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B002NKO1XW" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.co.uk&#x2F;Yan-Tyan-Tethera-Metheral-Shepherds...</a><p>(Yes, it&#x27;s that Adrian Edmondson from The Young Ones, Bottom etc)
finnh超过 2 年前
The secret to counting sheep is easy: just count the legs and divide by four.
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gerdesj超过 2 年前
I recall a book that mentions this counting system being Cumbric and specifically being still in use by modern shepherds. The writer was from Cumbria so that would gel with it being a generic Brythonic thing. The Welsh and Scottish numbers are obviously cognate.<p>Very roughly, the brythonic languages are those languages that were spoken in Britain. The term Britain gets a bit complicated. There were two britains - the greater (larger) and the lessor (smaller). The greater one is now part of the UK and the lessor is Brittany in France. Great Britain is basically the bigger Britain! The term was taken on by King James 1 (England) 6 (Scotland) to describe the unity of Scotland and England. It looks like we can thank the ancient greeks for the name anyway - a bloke called Pytheas circumnavigated these shores and describes the &quot;Pretannike&quot;. That is probably a greekism for whatever the locals called themselves back in the day - bretanns.<p>Before the Romans rocked up in 55 and 54BC and finally in 43AD, Brythonic languages were the norm in these isles and there were loads of them. I doubt there was any sort of &quot;purity&quot; or that the blasted things could even be pinned down in a modern formal sense. Bear in mind that 1500ish years later Shakespear (literally: shakes his spear) managed at least 20 odd spellings for his own name.<p>Anyway, the Romans buggered off and things got quite complicated from around 350AD onwards in these parts.
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jrm4超过 2 年前
For whatever reason, I&#x27;m reminded of &quot;Waka Flocka Flame&quot;<p>I&#x27;m a hip-hop fan but never really got into his work -- but I still appreciated what a clever name he selected for himself, like pretty much guaranteed some shine (and probably name sampling) off the rhythm of the name alone.<p>Like brilliant in how &quot;sort of dumb&quot; it sounded.
z7超过 2 年前
You can do this without numbers. Put a stone for every sheep into a sack and when you need to check the herd&#x27;s completeness you take a stone out for every sheep and hope that the sack is eventually empty. That&#x27;s an old shepherd&#x27;s technique if I remember correctly.
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dnchdnd超过 2 年前
The welsh ones seem eerily similar to Urdu numbers. 9 (nau) &amp; 2 (dau) are in fact identical. Welsh isn’t even an indo aryan language. But them perhaps this system may in fact be?
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snthpy超过 2 年前
Does this help with getting kids to sleep at all?