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Arrest of woman outside abortion clinic in UK is wake-up call for free speech

5 点作者 curmudgeon22超过 2 年前

2 条评论

spacedcowboy超过 2 年前
<i>considers</i> ... Yep, pretty much fine with this.<p>She was protesting (by her own admission, praying is seen as protesting under these circumstances because of the god-squad taking an anti-abortion stance) within a restricted area outside an abortion clinic. Historically, the women going to get abortions have not had a great experience doing that, having to run a gauntlet of heckling and spewed invective... Hence the protesting restriction in the first place.<p>Silent protest is still protest, and you just can&#x27;t do it there. If you want to do anything more than virtue-signal, then protest where it matters, where change can be effected... The issue is that the overwhelming majority of Brits (unlike the US Supreme Court) think a woman ought to be in charge of her own body, even if that body is pregnant, up until 24 weeks pregnant. If a Dr. agrees it&#x27;s ok, then it is entirely her right (and no-one elses) whether she has an abortion.<p>And so these interfering busybodies who want to order and control other people&#x27;s lives know they have no chance if they try to impose their beliefs through normal channels, and they choose to do their &quot;protesting&quot; in front of abortion clinics. No. Fuck off.<p>She is not being told she can&#x27;t protest, she is being told she can&#x27;t protest <i>there</i>. This is not a free-speech issue, it&#x27;s a control issue, and the right for anyone to swing their fist ends just before it hits my nose; the same principle applies here, she can protest, but not in a way that interferes with another woman exercising her own rights.<p>In all, it&#x27;s a non-story, just some political theatre scraped out of the dregs at the bottom of the barrel.
评论 #34120484 未加载
0ct4via超过 2 年前
So we&#x27;ve got an opinion piece from an American attorney with a metaphorical hard-on for &quot;free speech,&quot; weighing in on laws in a country he is neither licensed nor educated in, but hey.<p>The claim that &quot;free speech has been in a free fall in the UK for years&quot; is nonsense -- the comparison is against the USian ideal of free speech, rather than the actual definition in (US) law -- succinctly explained here[1].<p>That notwithstanding, there is no legislative or common-law definition of &quot;free speech&quot; or protection of such in the UK. The Human Rights Act 1998 says there is a right to &quot;freedom of expression,&quot; but that it &quot;may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society.&quot; To wit, civil and criminal laws may define or curtail what is or isn&#x27;t reasonable -- this is often used when defining &quot;hate speech&quot; as being specifically made against those with protected characteristics, because of said characteristics.<p>Simply put, the woman in question was &quot;protesting&quot; in a buffer zone that her actions were <i>specifically prohibited in</i> -- if she&#x27;d bothered to stay in the area it was legal for her to do those acts in, there wouldn&#x27;t be any news to report.<p>The Public Space Protection Order in place is designed so that those requiring the services of these clinics (which aren&#x27;t limited to abortion), can safely access them without the levels of harassment and intimidation seen in the likes of the US. Violate the order, you&#x27;ve broken the law, you&#x27;re liable to be arrested -- simple&#x2F;<p>It&#x27;s a non-story, a false flag screaming &quot;but muh free speech!&quot; from someone not qualified to talk on the specifics, and failing to accept the issue isn&#x27;t even concerning freedom of speech, but violation of a PSPO.<p>The woman being approached by the police, was the result of West Midlands Police receiving a complaint beforehand -- so it&#x27;s something that&#x27;s been observed previously and has concerned a member of the public enough to report it.<p>If you just want to pray about the matter, do it where it&#x27;s legal to. Don&#x27;t be stupid enough to loiter outside an abortion clinic and claim you&#x27;re &quot;just standing here&quot; knowing full well you&#x27;re breaking the law.<p>For those interested, the Public Space Protection Order in question is here[2], and includes:<p>&quot;i. Protesting, namely engaging in any act of approval or disapproval or attempted act of approval or disapproval, with respect to issues related to abortion services, by any means. This includes but is not limited to graphic, verbal or written means, prayer or counselling&quot;<p>[...]<p>&quot;iii. Intimidating or harassing, or attempting to intimidate or harass, a Robert Clinic service user, visitor or a member of staff&quot;<p>The people visiting these clinics are vulnerable and potentially distressed enough by the visits, the fact that there needs to be a PSPO in the first place won&#x27;t help those feelings -- and people don&#x27;t just randomly hang around places like that -- it&#x27;s highly likely to cause intimidation, and potentially attempts to harass visitors to the clinic in question.<p>This isn&#x27;t a free speech issue, it&#x27;s a &quot;violating a protection order&quot; issue -- and hardly something that the average &quot;good hackers would find interesting,&quot; as per the HN submission guidelines[3].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1357&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1357&#x2F;</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.birmingham.gov.uk&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;file&#x2F;24121&#x2F;robert_clinic_station_road_b30" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.birmingham.gov.uk&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;file&#x2F;24121&#x2F;robert_cl...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a>