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Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada’s Assisted Suicide Program

121 点作者 sfusato超过 2 年前

21 条评论

kneebonian超过 2 年前
A couple of excerpts from the article<p>&gt; In May, Victoria took a hard look at their budget. They couldn’t go on like this for long. “Mom,” Joan recalled Victoria telling her, “I don’t think we can survive. We have to apply for MAiD.”<p>&gt; She had known that her 23-year-old son, Kiano Vafaeian, was depressed—he was diabetic and had lost his vision in one eye, and he didn’t have a job or girlfriend or much of a future... That was when Marsilla learned that Kiano had applied and, in late July, been approved for “medical assistance in dying,” aka MAiD, aka assisted suicide.<p>&gt; Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent.<p>&gt; Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.”<p>&gt; In October 2020, the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer issued a report stating that MAiD would cut healthcare costs by over $66 million.<p>&gt; In 2017, Aaron Trachtenberg, a research fellow and a doctor at the University of Manitoba, and Braden Manns, a health economist and nephrologist at the University of Calgary, published a paper predicting that MAiD could slash healthcare costs by as much as $100 million yearly.<p>&gt; He added: “When we have people who are genuinely suffering, and we don’t provide them options for dignified living, but we provide them with what we label as a painless death,
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mabbo超过 2 年前
As a Canadian, I&#x27;m mostly okay with the system because I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s changed much.<p>My grandmother was nearing her end a few decades ago- very fast moving lung cancer- long before these options were legally available. She was terrified of being unable to breath, dying from that. Her doctor looked her in the eye and said &quot;I promise you, you won&#x27;t die that way if you don&#x27;t want to&quot;. And she didn&#x27;t.<p>Medical assisted suicide for terminal patients has always existed, in the shadows. Now it&#x27;s just legitimized and being done openly.<p>I have some concerns over depressed people dying when they might be able to get treatment to help them. I&#x27;m sure there are cases of this happening. But I also think most of those people were going to commit suicide on their own anyway. Now it&#x27;s being done safely, in the sense that a failed suicide can make things even worse.<p>I&#x27;d like to see more being done to ensure these people truly have no other options, but I also know that I&#x27;m not qualified to pass judgement. I have faith that the doctors and medical system are doing what they think is best, and that they know more than I do.
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quacked超过 2 年前
This is one of those things that seems so made-up I don&#x27;t even have emotions about it. This article claims similar things that various far-right propagandists claim about the Canadian healthcare system--if you&#x27;re depressed, the government will kill you for free, but you&#x27;ll have to wait until an appointment opens up.<p>It&#x27;s such an absurd dystopian science-fiction concept that I have to assume it&#x27;s false, and that every report of assisted suicide for someone other a terminally ill person is in some part fabricated.<p>If these stories are not fabricated, and the government really is voluntarily euthanizing depressed people, then were I a citizen I&#x27;d be seriously thinking about [redacted] the Canadian government.
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jamal-kumar超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve come back to this country and have had two people with mental illnesses tell me they want to apply for this shit, which aren&#x27;t being properly addressed because you basically have to be committed to a mental institution in order to get proper mental healthcare here. I honestly think it&#x27;s fucked. The provision for this and mental health issues which they&#x27;re just not even fucking trying to treat just makes my blood boil.<p>Look I honestly think it should be a thing, people should have the right to access to this for terminal illnesses and all that which it makes absolute sense for - but implementing it in the middle of a huge public healthcare crisis [1] is the worst timing ever. I waited a month just to see a GP for a simple prescription refill. And before you tell me I&#x27;m complaining about something that&#x27;s free, I returned to Canada with a 16k medical bill because I didn&#x27;t declare I left the province, as it turns out something called medical service premiums are a thing in some provinces. All to come back to waiting a month for a GP? I&#x27;m paying this shit off, and leaving forever. A lot of other smart people have too.<p>Hey check out this guy in this news report, he has like BACK PAIN ISSUES and is being encouraged to do this shit. Oh sorry unfit for work eh? Well sorry that&#x27;s too bad <i>cocks gun</i> [2]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;news&#x2F;politics&#x2F;canadian-health-care-system-collapse-1.6590461" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;news&#x2F;politics&#x2F;canadian-health-care-system...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Up5k2Lx5SPI">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Up5k2Lx5SPI</a>
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trdtaylor1超过 2 年前
Unfortunately the rollout of the program in the Canadian military veteran community leaves something to be desired as well; numerous vets calling for assistance kept being informed of the assisted suicide program versus getting the help they had asked for. Considering how it&#x27;s starting to make news waves in Canada i&#x27;m surprised they don&#x27;t mention it at all.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;news&#x2F;politics&#x2F;christine-gauthier-assisted-death-macaulay-1.6671721" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;news&#x2F;politics&#x2F;christine-gauthier-assisted...</a>
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ttul超过 2 年前
The ”Free Press” is a Substack site published by Bari Weiss, an American journalist whose point of view has been described as conservative, even “provocative.” I think a degree of critical thinking should be engaged when reading anything she puts out. Her standard journalism is, at best, “opinion.”<p>This article, like many others I have come across in recent months, describes medical assistance in dying (MAiD) as if it’s metastasizing into Canada’s leading cause of death - the ultimate escape from any form of suffering whatsoever. The reality is that prior to MAiD, many people were assisted in their death, under the radar, by a compassionate palliative care doctor or nurse, who would show the patient how to turn the knob up on their fentanyl drip. Those less fortunate would commit suicide in more brutal ways, something with which we are all doubtless far too familiar. The terminally ill were forced to suffer a terrible end of life, all in the name of persisting life at all costs - including human dignity.<p>The question we all should be asking is this: is it right for someone to have the freedom to choose the time and manner of their own death? People do it already through suicide, but it’s not a nice ending. Suicide generates a good deal of family shame to go along with the suffering of self-administered death.<p>Nobody likes death, but it is inevitable. The question Canada asked - and answered - is that a compassionate death should be an option for those who wish it for themselves when they have no reasonable prospect of turning around a terrible situation from which there is no reasonable prospect of recovery.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bari_Weiss" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bari_Weiss</a>
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eulers_secret超过 2 年前
Wow, I had no idea assisted suicide due to economic circumstance was already a thing.<p>It&#x27;s so tragic that society has failed many people, and now instead of the extra help they need, they&#x27;re just given the option to be killed outright.<p>Personal anecdote: I intend to end my life with suicide. The circumstances would likely be when I get a terminal disease. Dragging out end-of-life is very traumatic for those around you. I have personal experience here.<p>I could also see myself deciding to die over economic reasons: If I&#x27;m forced out of tech at ~45-55 (because ageism is very real), then I&#x27;ll probably plan to die whenever I run out of money. If I can&#x27;t make rent, and I can&#x27;t work, and there&#x27;s no help, suicide is an option to stop the pain. I&#x27;d rather be dead than homeless (because of how society treats them).<p>I already have my plans, going to build an &#x27;exit pod&#x27;. Nitrogen asphyxiation with CO2 scrubbers, and some kind of tech to determine I really am dead and contact EMS (arduino+ekg or O2 SAT and a phone) with a message about the situation. Trying to decrease trauma to others because of my death.<p>The cruelty with which we treat normal people, even in the best situation on earth that ever has been, is absolutely shocking and disgusting.<p>It&#x27;s hard to accept that human life has no intrinsic value: Once we&#x27;re no longer useful to our &#x27;betters&#x27;, we are culled. If you cannot produce economic value, those in power think you are better off dead.
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jmacd超过 2 年前
I&#x27;m a Canadian. I want every single person in this country to get the best care possible right up until they die. If they want to keep the care coming, then I expect us to keep providing it.<p>God help me if you decide that because you are giving me care, you also get to decide when and how I die. I want to decide that and if I choose to go at an appointed time with my family nearby and in a comfortable setting, then I will go a happy man.<p>Will everyone make a decision I agree with? Are many lives worth living even when they don&#x27;t feel like it? Will families and loved ones not want to let go? Are some people not mentally well enough at the time to make such a decision? Yes to all. It&#x27;s complicated and difficult, but it is only more complicated and more difficult when the state tries to create rules about what is morally right and not.
codetrotter超过 2 年前
&gt; Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.<p>If someone is living in suffering, it is better to give them the option to end their life if they want, than to insist that they keep on living just because they “could” continue to live for many years more.
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bigbluedots超过 2 年前
Any assisted dying program has very difficult factors to weigh to decide which set of circumstances warrant its use.<p>Anecdata: A long time ago I was a depressed teenager who would likely have passed any &#x27;mature minor&#x27; test. If such a program was available at the time I would likely not be here today; it turns out that the intervening years have very much been worth living.<p>I don&#x27;t agree with the bar being set as low as it seemingly will be in Canada&#x27;s case.
e_i_pi_2超过 2 年前
I definitely support assisted suicide, but not for economic reasons. If someone feels helpless because they can&#x27;t afford a house or food that should be given to them. I think we&#x27;re a little ahead of the curve here because we don&#x27;t have robust safety nets yet<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=5xsVORMDqU0">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=5xsVORMDqU0</a> This is a great video on the topic from Canadians, it&#x27;s 90mins but has good info and different perspectives
PuppyTailWags超过 2 年前
Do we have broader studies on how many MAiD applicants are applicants due to economic hardship or lack of other resources, vs terminal illness or unbearable chronic illness? The article points to multiple MAiD support networks existing; has anyone surveyed them?
mradek超过 2 年前
Sounds dystopian. I’d rather we get people the help they need than start suggesting death to anyone who is suffering, even those not facing terminal illness etc.<p>Is life really that unimportant these days?
lenkite超过 2 年前
Only a matter of time before you are &#x27;professionally&#x27; advised to MaiD by society if you are not successful. The govt can remove all social security and welfare benefits and stimulate economic growth! No need to support unproductive trash - if you aren&#x27;t contributing $$$ in taxes or paying $$$ in political donations - its time for you to be gently kicked into the night!
nitwit005超过 2 年前
You can find a collection of individual stories that make any health program seem grim and tragic. They all fail some people.<p>What matters is the rate of these problems, which you&#x27;ll notice this article never lists. This seems to be a common trend among articles critical of this program.<p>It&#x27;s possible there is no good data on how well the program is performing, but then you should be honest enough to admit that.
hackinthebochs超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve seen a lot of consternation online regarding this program, with most of it simply presenting the idea of assisted suicide as self-evidently unconscionable. But why think so? Why should someone be forced to continue to live a life they have no interest in, regardless of the reason? This idea that the highest virtue is to continue breathing for as long as possible is probably an ideological holdout from our Christian past, where suffering was virtuous and our fates were in God&#x27;s hands, not our own. The West has become largely secular, but our Christian forebearers still have immense influence.
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ilrwbwrkhv超过 2 年前
Canadian society is such a failed society at this point that even to die you need to wait for months to get an appointment.
matthewmacleod超过 2 年前
HN&#x27;s attitude on this stuff is pretty weird to me.<p>Articles about Canada&#x27;s assisted dying program have been repeatedly posted here, and all of them seem to be quite clearly pushing a non-neutral agenda on the issue. The thing that most clearly stands out in this example is the heavy focus on anecdote and the underhanded use of context-free numbers meant to sound shocking, and you can see the effort working in the comments.<p>I&#x27;m pretty surprised, because I&#x27;d&#x27;ve imagined assisted dying programs would be one of the most embraced things by the &quot;soft libertarian&quot; sort of crowd attracted by this site. It would be nice to see articles that actually explored what was happening a bit more; there was a good example in The Guardian a couple of years ago that seemed like an interesting exploration of the issue, rather than a cart-before-the horse article like this <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2019&#x2F;jan&#x2F;18&#x2F;death-on-demand-has-euthanasia-gone-too-far-netherlands-assisted-dying" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2019&#x2F;jan&#x2F;18&#x2F;death-on-demand...</a>
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TheFreim超过 2 年前
My position on euthanasia and (assisted) suicide:<p>&gt; Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible.<p>&gt; Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. It is morally unacceptable.<p>&gt; Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.<p>&gt; Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.<p>&gt; Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.<p>&gt; Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.<p>&gt; Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.<p>&gt; If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.<p>&gt; Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.<p>&gt; We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.<p>Taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraphs 2276-2283
FpUser超过 2 年前
Waiting for something like: apply for early MAID, receive 10% bonus to your pension.<p>I think that given enough time this MAID thing will be commercialized and grossly abused.
gptadmirer超过 2 年前
This should be celebrated!<p>I don’t think there will be negatives. There are only positives that can come with this.<p>- lots of people can’t take it anymore living in this cruel world without good job and economic prospects, or looking at the bleak environmental future<p>- less people on Earth will make the Earth have a chance of recovering<p>- labor will be more valued, less competition<p>- less demand for housing, making housing cheaper<p>- less demand for education, goods and services, making it lower in price<p>- less strain on the economy by people who can’t contribute<p>- we can donate the organs to healthy people who need it more<p>- we can use bodies for science
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