French startup unveils new residential thermo-acoustic heat pump

Super cool to see someone trying to commercialize this technology. Fun fact is that the JWST cryocooler operates on a similar principle (although the implementation is quite different).<p>Relatedly, I found this fantastic video on to how to use the thermoacoustic effect for heating and cooling a few months back: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kkBBkQ8jFRY">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kkBBkQ8jFRY</a>

&gt;in a closed-pressure vessel filled with helium at a pressure of 30 bars...<p>&gt;It has a 30-year lifetime, with an easy installation process<p>Normally, any kind of pressure vessel (steam, compressed gas cylinders, etc.) is subject to routine inspection and hydro-testing for re-certification.<p>What happens if&#x2F;when it needs to be serviced? Do I need to draw down a crazy level of vacuum before charging it helium (or whatever working fluid)?<p>&gt;Traditional fixed-output units cycle between on and off multiple times a day, switching between zero and maximum capacity to achieve the right temperature balance. But the new heat pump modulates its output to continuously provide the desired temperature.<p>New heat pumps &#x2F; air conditioners already do this with variable speed compressors and fans.

I do wonder why we have odd situations like a fridge inside a house that&#x27;s using energy to keep stuff cool because the air in the house is being heated to keep people warm because it&#x27;s cold outside.......<p>And of course that we&#x27;re leaking heat in various ways such as the output from sinks, showers or baths and in the form of stale air but a heatpump cannot scavenge from these.<p>It would seem logical to have some sort of &quot;temperature management system&quot; which could move heat around from the various points to make use of whatever natural sources and sinks were available at that time of year.

I was just quoted this week for a CO2 heat pump set up that promises 62 deg Celsius water output with COPs that are at a range similar to that of regular heat pumps. The details on this company are scarce, so I&#x27;m treading cautious.<p>Claims COP A7&#x2F;W35 (I can&#x27;t tell what A7&#x2F;W35 means) of 4.8!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.durocan.com&#x2F;specificaties&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.durocan.com&#x2F;specificaties&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.durocan.com&#x2F;co2-heat-pump&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.durocan.com&#x2F;co2-heat-pump&#x2F;</a><p>Curious if folks who know about heat pumps here have any opinions on this.<p>EDIT: It appears to be a Dutch company (I live in NL) that has licensed the CO2 heat pump tech from an American company - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smallplanetsupply.com&#x2F;sanc02" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smallplanetsupply.com&#x2F;sanc02</a>

That&#x27;s very interesting to see!<p>The first time I read about acoustic heat pumps was when the Dutch governments&#x27; research arm spun off their start-up: Blue Heart: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blueheartenergy.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blueheartenergy.com&#x2F;</a><p>I had no idea multiple companies were pursuing this. That&#x27;s great! If we can replace every gas boiler with a acoustic heat pump that can produce 70 degree water that will enormously speed up the electrification of domestic heating in Europe.

BlueHeart Energy ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blueheartenergy.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blueheartenergy.com&#x2F;</a> ) from Netherlands also has developed a new heat pump that uses thermo acoustics. The technique consists in creating sound waves in a closed circuit to generate heat and cold.

probably if you are trying to understand how this works it would be useful to read <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Thermoacoustic_heat_engine" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Thermoacoustic_heat_engine</a>

The founder of the startup made a speech to TEDx [1] (in French). He is the son of one of the precursor researcher on thermo-acoustic. The speech gives some possible applications of this new technology.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-soze8e2Quo">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-soze8e2Quo</a>

&gt; produces 3 kW to 4 kW of heat for every kilowatt of power it consumes<p>So, not too different from typical heat pumps. Ground-source heat pumps are especially effective.

I wonder what the efficiency is at higher temperature differences.<p>For example, I would like a water-sourced aircon which cooled a radiant or chiller circulating system on the cold side, while heating incoming water for hot water on the hot side (plus an &#x27;overflow&#x27; cooling ground loop if necessary). Maybe this isn&#x27;t beyond the ability of current systems, but I think having a fairly large gap of 60C hot&#x2F;5-15C cold is inefficient currently, and maybe a reason you don&#x27;t see this obvious setup too often.

Would this work to replace the compressor and refrigerant for refrigeration? Fridges that last need less repair and have nothing to leak when they do need repair would be pretty neat.

I’m wondering how or if helium supply issues might make impact scalability of this. Yet another in a long list of reasons we should ban selling the stuff to the public.

Kinda fuzzy on how this works&#x2F;what the tradeoffs are?<p>Looks like it&#x27;s creating a standing pressure wave and then tapping into the colder or hotter part as appropriate?<p>Based on the diagrams it seems like it would need a radiator or something for larger surface area?<p>Also curious as to how loud it is.

&gt; The heat pump has a coefficient of performance (COP) of three to four, which means that it produces 3 kW to 4 kW of heat for each kilowatt of power it consumes. &quot;We have the same efficiency as traditional heat pumps, but we have better modulation thanks to acoustic transfer&quot;<p>So, no advantage from an energy efficiency point of view. The ability to modulate is certainly good, but they don&#x27;t provide figures. My inverter air-source heat pump can modulate in the 1-8 kW range. How much better are they? Maybe they are more efficient in the whole modulation range. I&#x27;d love to see figures.<p>&gt; Loyer said the heat pump can generate domestic water at up to 80 C.<p>That could certainly be an advantage. Traditional R410, R32 based heat pump are happy up to 45 C and then they really start to feel the heat (pun intended :) )<p>&gt; helium at a pressure of 30 bars<p>I doubt that will last the stated 30 years. Gases such as hydrogen and helium are very hard to contain. Even the smallest crack or gasket problem will let it go.<p>&gt; Given that its core is filled with water, it works best as a water-source and geothermal heat pump<p>Huge disadvantage IMO. Air source heat pumps are way easier and cheaper to install and service and work even in residential buildings. Most of the pumps I see installed around are air-source. They say that they can convert to air-source using a fan, but don&#x27;t state what the disadvantages will be (e.g. wrt efficiency)<p>&gt;Equium claims that the heat pump system is completely silent, despite the use of a speaker to generate the acoustic wave. The level of noise is reportedly lower than 30 dB – the equivalent of a whisper. This could be a big advantage in residential areas. Big air source heat pumps emit a lot of noise from the compressor.<p>&gt; Equium is now conducting field tests for its thermos-acoustic heat pump. It expects to launch it at the end of 2023<p>Wold love to see some MSRP figures. Interested in early adoption in Bulgaria, Greece and the region (EU). My overall opinion is that factory made air-source heat pumps are overpriced compared to an AC unit with the same output power. That is why lots of people over here do a conversion by replacing the refrigerant-air heat exchanger with commercially available plate refrigerant-water exchangers. This however voids the warranty of the AC unit and you have to do some custom electronics to convince the AC unit that it is still and AC unit, while still providing the desired water temperature (mine works best in the 33-38C range, but my whole heating system is sized accordingly).

Really hoping this kind of tech to ends up in window AC+heat units soon for those of us in apartments.

What&#x27;s the efficiency compared to traditional compressors? I imagine there are a lot of opportunity for thermal energy to leak on the sides...<p>Edit: 20-30%, up to 40%, according to wikipedia.

Can anyone tell me why they use Helium rather than say Nitrogen?<p>I thought I read somewhere that we are running out of He.

I haven’t seen a mention so far, but 30 bar pressure isn’t that big. Scuba diving uses helium (wellC helium and oxygen) at up to 250 bar (in small cylinders, 10-12liters) with no issue whatsoever. The cylinders aren’t even that big or heavy (for a heat pump).

I wonder how efficient it is at lower temperature outputs. If we can see much higher COP at lower temperature gradients, then it would be even more impressive.<p>A much larger COP at 20C delta would be more effective for heating in moderate climates.

Every time a story like this pops up I find myself solely scanning comments for the critical flaw in the technology. Pavlovian dashed hopes response.

This is awesome! No wait, helium would cause this super-efficient heat pump to cost more than it is worth and put a strain on areas where helium is needed, like MRI machines, which are already having issues due to the increasing rarity of helium. Couldn&#x27;t they have used argon or nitrogen instead of helium?

Can this run in both directions? I’m eager to explore radiant heating and cooling (in like a 5-15 year time frame) and wondering if it might be good for that.

How does this compare to the energy efficiency&#x2F;cost of gas-powered water heater?

I wonder why Helium instead of much cheaper Nitrogen?

Is this the same tech used in James Webb telescope?

Critical issue with this technology it only really works well with helium.

Until someone shows me a very detailed video how this works I wouldn&#x27;t put it in my house. It looks like a nuclear bomb.

Does this mean I now have a good excuse to buy noisy toys for my grandchildren?

LOOL this is the best prank i read in months. Now they will get funding offer by some fat ass government-sponsored EU fund and then publish this as a warning on how you can steal almost infinite money by riding green hype and bullshitting people who didn&#x27;t go to high school but were put in charge of million euro decisions.

&gt; The heat pump has a coefficient of performance (COP) of three to four, which means that it produces 3 kW to 4 kW of heat for each kilowatt of power it consumes.<p>This is setting off some massive BS alarms in my head. Why is this not violating conservation of energy?