TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

The radical moral implications of luck in human life (2020)

98 点作者 nigamanth超过 2 年前

30 条评论

gamegoblin超过 2 年前
If you dig sufficiently deeply at it, you can attribute everything to luck. Just keep asking &quot;why&quot; and eventually you arrive at something you did not have conscious control over.<p>E.g.<p>Q. Why do you deserve your money?<p>A. I work hard.<p>Q. Why do you work hard?<p>A. I have a good work ethic.<p>Q. Why do you have a good work ethic?<p>A. My parents raised me that way.<p>Q. Why did you choose for your parents to raise you that way?<p>A. I didn&#x27;t.<p>I&#x27;m not suggesting any conclusions here, just stating that if you keeping asking &quot;why&quot;, you will <i>always</i> get to ground at something outside your conscious control.<p>Applying this to my own life, I make good money doing software development. Programming is easy and natural for me. I started programming when I was 12. Why? I thought it was fun. Why did I choose to think it was fun? I didn&#x27;t consciously choose.<p>This applies even for things that seem to arise within your own mind. You can&#x27;t choose which thoughts to have. You might think &quot;sure I can, I&#x27;m going to think about elephants right now&quot;, and that may be, but when did you choose <i>to choose</i> to think about elephants? When did you choose to choose to choose? You can recurse deep, but eventually you arrive at something outside your conscious control.
评论 #34621778 未加载
评论 #34626200 未加载
评论 #34621719 未加载
评论 #34628082 未加载
评论 #34626306 未加载
评论 #34622052 未加载
评论 #34622135 未加载
评论 #34629959 未加载
WalterBright超过 2 年前
Deciding that one&#x27;s life is all about luck is a miserable way to live. It means one has no agency, no choice, no way to make one&#x27;s life better. Because it&#x27;s all luck, that means there is no point in trying. The outcome of this is self-fulfilling - misery.<p>I don&#x27;t understand why it&#x27;s such a popular attitude these days.<p>A while ago, I noticed something interesting. None of my friends believes their lives are all about luck. They all believe they have agency, and are constantly <i>taking responsibility</i> for their lives and acting accordingly. They&#x27;re a lot of fun to be around.<p>The great thing about <i>taking responsibility</i> is one can <i>do something</i> to fix issues in their lives.<p>The other ones, the ones who say it&#x27;s all luck, it&#x27;s always someone else&#x27;s fault, why me, etc., aren&#x27;t any fun to be around. No thanks.
评论 #34624395 未加载
评论 #34625796 未加载
评论 #34625081 未加载
评论 #34625800 未加载
评论 #34625120 未加载
评论 #34627602 未加载
评论 #34626424 未加载
评论 #34626996 未加载
评论 #34629488 未加载
评论 #34632375 未加载
credit_guy超过 2 年前
Backgammon is a game of chance: at each move you roll the dice. But while you can&#x27;t control the dice, you can choose among the several moves allowed by the dice.<p>Play against a professional backgammon player, and you will win exactly zero matches.<p>The luck averages out over the long run, but the better play accumulates with each move.<p>In real life, the better play is sometimes hard work, but many times it can be something else: making friends, doing them favors, and getting favors in return, knowing when to take a calculated risk, and knowing when to call it quits, drinking and having fun at parties, but knowing to keep the alcohol away otherwise, saying no do drugs, reading books instead of watching TikTok.
评论 #34627671 未加载
评论 #34627208 未加载
yogthos超过 2 年前
The comments in this thread do a great job highlighting point the article makes that acknowledging luck is profoundly threatening to the lucky.
评论 #34626266 未加载
评论 #34639873 未加载
评论 #34626058 未加载
rootusrootus超过 2 年前
Maybe the lesson is that there is no point to judging other people&#x27;s relative success (whether more or less successful than yourself), and that you can just try to make your own life better. Don&#x27;t wish for things you don&#x27;t have, don&#x27;t despair over success you haven&#x27;t achieved, don&#x27;t shit on people who haven&#x27;t found success. Make your own life better, in any way you can, and make the lives of your loved ones better. Let the rest work itself out.
评论 #34621783 未加载
评论 #34623074 未加载
rayiner超过 2 年前
This article is written from a top-down perspective, as if morality is about how some higher power should allocate benefits and burdens:<p>&gt; These episodes illustrate what seems to be one of the enduring themes of our age: socially dominant groups, recipients of myriad unearned advantages, willfully refusing to acknowledge them, despite persistent efforts from socially disadvantaged groups.<p>A more useful understanding of morality is that it’s a framework for cultivating individually and socially desirable behavior. If you’re a member of one of those “socially disadvantaged groups” you can’t do anything about the unearned advantages held by other people. All you can do is control your own actions.<p>From that perspective, it’s better for a member of a socially disadvantaged group to discount luck altogether-act is if nothing is holding them back—whether it’s true or not. I probably wouldn’t be here in America if my dad had sat around dwelling on the happenstance of his having been born in a third world village, or thinking about the unearned privileges reaped by British colonization of his homeland.
评论 #34626583 未加载
评论 #34627458 未加载
todaysAI超过 2 年前
I don&#x27;t know how we can even consider that luck doesn&#x27;t play the biggest role in life. We are influenced by a trillion of decisions made by people that directly pass through our lives everyday. To your competitors in business to the people that decide they are sober enough to drive at the same time you are driving.<p>Not to mention the physical world which plays no favourites.<p>I look at Bezos&#x2F;Musk&#x2F;etc and they are on top of wealth pyramid solely because someone has to. Next year it will be someone else.<p>All we can do is try to make clear rational decisions and then let the universe unfold as it will.
评论 #34624723 未加载
评论 #34622271 未加载
评论 #34622249 未加载
Maursault超过 2 年前
<p><pre><code> I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; nor bread to the wise, nor wealth to the brilliant, nor favor to the skilled. But time and chance happen to them all.[1] </code></pre> [1] Ecc. 9:11
评论 #34626686 未加载
ne0flex超过 2 年前
I often perceive luck to be the combination of opportunity + skill&#x2F;talent (in the sense that you have the skill&#x2F;talent to take advantage of the opportunity that comes your way). I find that a lot of people like to chock up the success of billionaires or whoever to luck (in the sense of random chance). My older brother does this often and used to tell me about how Bezos was lucky and Bezos&#x27; parents gave him $300K to start Amazon, the implication being something to the effect that anybody given $300k can build Amazon. Then my brother had a windfall stock trade where he made $250k, I told him he can try to build the next Amazon, and he ended up squandering everything on bad stock trades and business decisions. I guess his luck ran out?
评论 #34622285 未加载
transcoderx超过 2 年前
Not everybody who is born rich becomes successful in later life.<p>Instead of fretting how rich people have an unfair advantage, we should try to give more people that advantage.<p>And say it takes a rich family to create one Neurosurgeon. Shouldn&#x27;t we be happy that society is able to produce some Neurosurgeons?<p>Another note: genetics and evolution are not random luck. People struggle to find partners with good genes.
评论 #34629569 未加载
stephc_int13超过 2 年前
I fully agree on the role of luck&#x2F;randomness on our lives.<p>But I disagree on what the author is suggesting : wealth redistribution.<p>I do think that taxes are necessary (until proven otherwise) but I think that wealth is a second order effect of power. Trying to fix the inequality problem by targeting its derivative is barely helpful.<p>We should really look at the power structure and network instead, obviously this is also more difficult to tackle as power is somewhat ill defined and not fungible.<p>I tend to think that the _less wrong_ solution would be to build power traps and power diffusers, in practice trying both to avoid concentration and to maintain a minimal floor.
评论 #34626094 未加载
FrustratedMonky超过 2 年前
It is an old subject, with old arguments around old miss-understandings. People here are trying to use new analogies from computer science (a clock work universe), or with miss-understandings around quantum mechanics (somehow randomness give me agency). Or trying to re-define terms to fit a particular answer they ‘feel’ comfortable with.<p>But it still comes back to, where is the first mover, best summarized by Schopenhauer.<p>&quot;A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills.&quot;<p>Go watch some Robert Sapolsky lectures. We are just a monkey society, reacting to stimuli based on hormones and what we just ate. If you drill down far enough, sure some electrons twitched one way or the other, and yeah, if you steal something, or do something the group doesn’t like, then all the other monkeys will want to beat you up and call it justice, and dream up some logic to justify it and call it morality.
jadbox超过 2 年前
Related, I&#x27;d highly recommend reading Harvard Law School professor Michael Sandel&#x27;s recent book on Meritocracy. He lays out a comprehensive exploration of the luck factor in the role of justice, democracy, and the shared common good.
评论 #34621641 未加载
Topolomancer超过 2 年前
Turning this around somewhat: in some sense, the focus on luck can also hurt people. If it&#x27;s &quot;just luck&quot; that you did _not_ get the promotion or whatever despite trying and training for it, does it mean that you are &quot;cursed by fate?&quot;<p>I think it&#x27;s super hard to balance &quot;agency&quot; versus &quot;random factors beyond my control&quot; on a daily basis. I agree that embracing the role of luck is one step forward, but I also wonder whether we&#x27;ll ever get there.
Isamu超过 2 年前
&gt; Building a more compassionate society means reminding ourselves of luck, and of the gratitude and obligations it entails, against inevitable resistance.<p>No, not at all. Moral obligations come from the idea of sharing your success with the rest of society instead of being strictly selfish, because you live in that society and it has the added benefits of indirectly helping you in the long run.<p>Luck doesn’t change the sharing story and people don’t view luck that way either. When someone wins at a casino they don’t feel any obligation to share because it was lucky.<p>You share out of moral obligation to support the common good, if there’s zero luck involved it doesn’t give you some moral ground to maximize your selfishness.
rubicon33超过 2 年前
&gt; How much credit do we deserve for who, and where, we end up?<p>The answer to this is really simple. You may take credit for how much better you have done relative to those who had a similar upbringing and opportunity. That&#x27;s it.
评论 #34623092 未加载
评论 #34621621 未加载
rrgok超过 2 年前
One thing that made me realize how luck is important, is reading a part of the book &quot;Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us&quot;.<p>If we leave out environmental luck (parents, neighborhood...), the very simple fact that you cannot choose which brain you want (einstein brain or some famous artist brain?) or simply a brain&#x2F;body that is more capable of enduring stress &#x2F;hard-work, should make people understand that luck play a far bigger role than everything else.<p>You can work with what you have and express the best version of yourself, but that doesn&#x27;t mean you will be succesfull in the envoirnment you are surrounded with. Some people waste away their life just because they could not find a suitable environment (maybe it doesn&#x27;t exist) where their best self can overcome the average. And finding the best enviornment where you can thrive and have success is, I guess, another lottery.
bojangleslover超过 2 年前
It might be luck to HAVE good parents but it&#x27;s the furthest thing from luck BE good parents in the first place. Good parents have the right to pass down that hard work to their kids.
rootusrootus超过 2 年前
The author sure does work pretty hard to absolve individuals of having any control over their destiny. If your parents were wealthy, that&#x27;s luck. If they loved you and cared for you when you were young, also luck. But after you&#x27;re an adult, if you have enough grit to go accomplish great things, that&#x27;s luck too!<p>So don&#x27;t feel bad if you&#x27;re not a self-starter, don&#x27;t feel like you need to keep trying. Accept it as bad luck, and accept your fate.<p>Was this written by someone lucky?
MrPatan超过 2 年前
Sure, sure, luck. But the difference between getting a great hand and playing it right or wrong is not luck.<p>Some people want to conflate it. Don&#x27;t let them.<p>Don&#x27;t let them compare the trust-fund kid who built a business to the non-trust-fund kid who didn&#x27;t build a business.<p>Compare them to the trust-fund kid who <i>didn&#x27;t even try</i> to build anything and ended up writing sad opinion pieces against the unfairness of it all.
评论 #34647493 未加载
bilvar超过 2 年前
When I get a pile of CVs for an open position, I throw randomly half of them in the bin. I don&#x27;t want unlucky people in my company.
hyperthesis超过 2 年前
\tangent on &quot;system-two counteracting system-one&quot;: visualization (imagining a desired outcome as having already happened) engages system-one. It brings a far-future gratification into the present, so you can be motivated far beyond your &quot;natural&quot; motivation. All you need is an outcome that engages your system-one.
评论 #34627564 未加载
nathias超过 2 年前
you can influence the direction and velocity of where you&#x27;re going, not where you are, nor where you end up
jrd259超过 2 年前
This is about class, not luck, except in the narrow sense that being the child of affluence is luck.
hprotagonist超过 2 年前
<i>Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compel the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.</i>
评论 #34621856 未加载
评论 #34624356 未加载
WalterBright超过 2 年前
You get to choose to:<p>1. stay in school, or drop out<p>2. pay attention in class, or not<p>3. do drugs, or not<p>4. commit crimes, or not<p>5. go to college, or not<p>6. do something useful, or watch TV<p>These all have a massive downstream effect on your life. And you chose.
评论 #34625042 未加载
评论 #34622820 未加载
评论 #34627417 未加载
braindead_in超过 2 年前
From a Nondualist perspective, luck is just another thought construct. There is no difference between good and bad luck. Everything is determined by the law of karma. Rather than relying on luck, focusing on actions is a much better strategy.
lumb63超过 2 年前
This article was missing something to me. There are definitely inequities in “luck”: genetics, upbringing, etc., that one has no (or very little) influence over. The author uses this to draw the conclusion that, more or less, if you’re unlucky, that sucks. You had better hold your hand out and wait for someone with better luck to come by and help you. If that fails, you better head to the ballot and fill every bubble with a “D” next to it if you want any chance of a good life.<p>This is the learned helplessness that, IMO, fuels modern socialism here in the US. It’s the “there’s nothing I could have done” sentiment. It’s the “I wasn’t born into wealth” sentiment. Even if there are situations in life that confer one a disadvantage, why not make the best of them? Yes, it takes effort to have self control and make good decisions. That doesn’t mean people should be told that their circumstances in life provide them a “get out of jail free” card to not even attempt to exercise them. That type of thinking is defeatist.<p>I support a meritocracy. In accordance with that, I think we should aim to reduce the inequities that our social structure creates. Drawing attention to those pain points is useful and can be something we can improve upon. Telling entire swaths of people that their upbringing was unlucky and that’s the cause of their lot in life is not a recipe for empowering those people. So long as they are stuck waiting for someone else to fix their problems, IMO, they will never have them fixed.
drdrek超过 2 年前
Why use so many words when few words are enough?
评论 #34636237 未加载
throwaway98797超过 2 年前
best to withhold judgement until one’s death<p>sometimes you’re ahead sometimes you’re behind