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Etsy is awash with illicit products and mass produced goods (2021)

159 点作者 vector_spaces超过 2 年前

25 条评论

neonate超过 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.md&#x2F;WM1wf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.md&#x2F;WM1wf</a>
hhw3h超过 2 年前
In my experience if you want to make a sustainable living from selling arts or crafts online, you want to go up market. Charge $1,000 or more per work.<p>Use a relationship based sales process starting with one focused social media presence, typically Instagram.<p>Not everyone will be afford your work, but if your marketing and customer service is solid, a plenty large market will exist.<p>Once you start collecting social proof from happy customers, flow that back into your marketing and getting your next client becomes easier and easier. You can then often charge $3,000 to $5,000 for the same exact work because of the social proof and the brand you are building with it.<p>Making an art business work is similar to making a bootstrapped software business work, in the sense that software bootstrappers again and again go through the personal realization that writing software is typically only 20% to 30% of what they need to focus on in order to be successful.<p>They realize they need to bite the bullet and learn sales and marketing too and only if they do so can they overtime shift more and more of their time to just the areas of their software business they want to spend the most time in.
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jason-phillips超过 2 年前
Etsy is one of the only places where one can buy quality handmade works. It certainly is the most concentrated market for those items, but you have to know how to dig deeper past the mass-produced crap. It helps to know a little about art or the medium first. That provides a launch point from which your queries can become more focused as one learns.<p>I&#x27;ve discovered entirely new categories (to me) of arts and crafts in that way, from 19th century American coverlets to Welsh stick chairs, eventually learning about the nascent Arts and Crafts movement&#x27;s evolution in the 19th century in response to the soulless factory-produced goods of that age.[0]<p>As a result, today I probably have some of the largest context-specific art collections in Texas, if not the United States, which includes Japanese Takatori ware, Ukrainian art, handmade Windsor chairs, and Anagama (dragon kiln) wood-fired pottery. All discovered through Etsy.<p>In some respects, I am under the impression that most people simply don&#x27;t know what they&#x27;re looking for, i.e., they don&#x27;t know how things are made and therefore don&#x27;t know how to search for it. The genuine real McCoy is there, behind the first page of mass-produced imposters, you just have to dig for it.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Arts_and_Crafts_movement" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Arts_and_Crafts_movement</a>
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fnordian_slip超过 2 年前
I like to dream about changing to a four day workweek, and dedicating one day to woodworking. Originally, I wanted to sell on Etsy, but the flood of drop shippers pretending to sell handmade stuff has put me off. It seems like it has gotten a lot worse in the last decade.<p>I know that this one day a week would decrease my overall earnings, but it would probably still be worth it. However, with the abundance of cheap, mass-produced items on Etsy I would have to price my items so cheap that I would fall below minimum wage on that day.<p>I don&#x27;t want to complain, I get to do enough woodworking as is, since my employer gives me 12 additional vacation days in exchange for 5.2% of my salary, taking me up to 47 per year.<p>But it would still be nice if there was a platform in Europe that does what Etsy used to do.
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wgerard超过 2 年前
This was a constant complaint about Etsy 10 years ago when I worked there. This was a complaint that predated my time working there, even. At one point we even had to ban people selling spells (yes, as in the seller would offer to do a magical incantation on your behalf).<p>The exact details might&#x27;ve changed, but the symptoms look the exact same. I remember we had to deal with a lot of people trying to skirt OFAC regulations, for example, by doing all sorts of things to hide the country of origin for something.<p>Optimistically I will say this is a very hard problem to solve. Pessimistically of course the company benefits from it, so I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;s not a problem anyone besides maybe a few diehard advocates look <i>too</i> deeply into.
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boringg超过 2 年前
Etsy in its purest form was great. Its been diluted to almost trash with all the people gaming the system. Same with almost all other tech platforms. Humanity defaults to greedy (ie optimize for search results etc).<p>Worse yet is the big companies pretending to be little companies to cash in on indie buyers.
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hitpointdrew超过 2 年前
Here is headline for you: Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget was charged with securities fraud by the SEC and is permanently banned from the securities industry, yet he runs a publishing platform dedicated to trading and securities.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Henry_Blodget" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Henry_Blodget</a><p>Business Insider is not a reputable source.<p>EDIT: And this story, when it was originally published by Business Insider, just happened to break 3 business days before ETSY&#x27;s May 5, 2021 earnings call. What a coincidence!
motohagiography超过 2 年前
Governing whose products are cooperative and defective within the market seems like a hard problem, and the same problem that forum moderators have, but mostly because the people doing it are adopting the wrong principles. If a defective participant can make an appeal to external&#x2F;exogenous market principles, there&#x27;s nothing the regulator can do. The artists markets (and forums) that do thrive are the ones ruled by direct curation to enforce sanctions on defective and noncooperative parties.<p>This is a general problem with any artisanal market, where artists who have made an investment in their craft attract crowds, and crowds attract opportunists who defect from the rule of cooperation that makes the artists market viable. The whole principle of competition is that it&#x27;s only competition if you are playing by the same rules. Imo, artist markets resemble more of a co-operate&#x2F;defect game theory model than a simple economic market competition model. In an artisanal market, the co-operation rules are unfortunately, tacit, and rubes will reward the honest players and defective&#x2F;dishonest ones alike.<p>That it sucks implies there is an opportunity, likely for a federated curation model that looks more like a department store than the landfills of etsy and amazon.<p>Honest signals of quality and cooperation are necessarily discriminatory, and dishonest&#x2F;defective parties (ones who do not cooperate) have the aggregate effect of increasing these signalling costs on quality goods to where the signalling out-prices its utility.<p>Regulation comes into play when dishonest parties increase the signalling costs so much that it destroys the market for the products, and parties have to decide whether the regulatory&#x2F;moderation costs are lower than the signalling costs, or to abandon the market altogether, which in the case of Etsy, they often do. This is why Etsy is full of scammy junk. They have a curation and moderation problem they are not equipped to solve.<p>Ironically, what makes curation and moderation good is that it doesn&#x27;t scale well at all, even negatively, but that&#x27;s what makes it scarce and valuable - unlike anything available on Etsy. Maybe that&#x27;s the lesson.
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doctoboggan超过 2 年前
I’ve been selling on Etsy for a few years and the problem has only been getting worse. Etsy the company seems to turn a blind eye to it since they are making money off of the cheap Alibaba junk as well.<p>That being said etsy is still the best game in town. People searching there are very ready to buy and if you are able to stand out from the crowd it’s possible to be successful.
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tablespoon超过 2 年前
Yeah, I&#x27;ve gotten burned by this. We bought some wooden toys for a friend&#x27;s child that said they&#x27;d be shipped from Poland, assuming they were made in Poland at least.<p>It turned out the toys were made in China, and they even shipped them in the retail packaging (which was nowhere to be seen in the listing&#x27;s pictures).<p>Everything else I&#x27;ve gotten there has been basically someone with a decal machine making custom decals or applying a customization to a (likely) mass produced product.
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temporallobe超过 2 年前
I happen to know that Etsy is being used as a tax haven for selling “products” from an online “store”. Basically, you buy stuff, offer it for sale of Etsy, and claim all of the goods you purchased as businesses expenses for tax writeoff purposes. This of course is not limited to Etsy, but it’s an easy platform to use for this purpose. It’s similar to how movie studios will purposefully produce horrible movies in order to create a loss. Or any other tax loophole, really.
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casenmgreen超过 2 年前
I may be wrong, but I believe Etsy have a hidden charge of 4% for currency conversion.<p>Normal banks charge about 3%, FinTechs 0.5%.<p>It listed absolutely nowhere when you buy; it occurs when you pay in a currency different to the native currency of the shop.<p>Etsy I recall decide which currency you will pay in, according to the country of your bank - which does not work for multi-currency FinTechs; in fact, you can end up paying Etsy their excessive conversion fee, and then a second conversion fee to the FinTech - that is, if you didn&#x27;t know any better, and Etsy are completely silent about this.<p>Regarding pricing, looking at Etsy prices, and the prices on the web-sites of the sellers, I believe Etsy charge 20%. This is monopoly pricing.
leashless超过 2 年前
I work on a fairly high-end solution to this problem: works for art authentication, real estate transactions, that sort of thing.<p>The <i>only</i> way this gets fixed is through liability: if they ship you a mass-produced thing, you get your money back. But if buyers are happy with the goods (and they seem to be, generally speaking) it&#x27;s hard to say anybody&#x27;s been defrauded -- making window shopping boring because most of the stuff is mass produced crap is not a crime, as it were.<p>No harm, no foul.<p>As for the &quot;illicit&quot; products, same applies: if the buyers don&#x27;t care, it&#x27;s hard to make the &quot;system&quot; care.
rtkwe超过 2 年前
Is there any proscription against posting subscriber only content to HN? It&#x27;s annoying to have to go through archive.org or something else, and for me my work actually blocks archive.org.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230208000215&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;etsy-sells-ivory-weapons-poisonous-plants-mass-produced-products-2021-4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230208000215&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.busin...</a>
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newsclues超过 2 年前
How do we break or slow the cycle of... New great thing is awesome, new thing gets popular, new thing turns to shit...<p>Seems like scalable systems tend to fail with this problem. Governments, the internet, social networks, online market places.<p>WTF?
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mcphage超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s probably worth including (2021) in the title. The article described Etsy putting money to fight this problem in 2021, I wonder if it has improved? Some spot checking makes me think probably not.
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oldstrangers超过 2 年前
Kind of related, I&#x27;m trying to build something for an &#x27;equitable curation&#x27; of Etsy. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lilbetsy.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lilbetsy.com&#x2F;</a>
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ryanisnan超过 2 年前
What I don&#x27;t understand is why Etsy doesn&#x27;t seem to be doing anything measurable about improving this. This reason is pretty much the sole one that prevents me from shopping at Etsy.
diogenescynic超过 2 年前
I&#x27;ve had a few issues with recently.<p>1. Seller listed an item they had already sold on another platform. I had to wait several days for a refund.<p>2. Item was sent, but not properly packaged and damaged. They re-sent the item but it was also damaged.<p>3. Ordered an antique from Europe that didn&#x27;t ship for 4 months and now they&#x27;re sending me letters from FedEx and asking me to return the item I never received...<p>I miss what Etsy used to be. It&#x27;s definitely degraded as it expanded.
kashunstva超过 2 年前
&gt; mass produced goods<p>I volunteer for a youth symphony and we were just looking to replace one of our timpani. First link was to Etsy. It was clear this was not some handcrafted bespoke instrument; it was just a used drum. Basically just another Ebay.
papito超过 2 年前
It&#x27;s almost like we need a way to certify products and authentic, much like we look for the &quot;organic&quot; label in a store.<p>I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s the solution, but with Amazon also going downhill rapidly, something has got to give.
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Bjorkbat超过 2 年前
Looking forward to when Etsy becomes the new Silk Road. I can shop for hand-crafted gifts for friends and family, and a little black tar heroin for myself, all in one go.
logicalmonster超过 2 年前
What should Etsy do to combat this?<p>I&#x27;m not sure if they&#x27;re trying, but even Amazon can&#x27;t figure out some way to verify genuine products from big brands.
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b0x68超过 2 年前
The modern web is insufferable. I can&#x27;t click on a link without seeing a paywall and&#x2F;or popups. ugh. Thank goodness for the wayback machine.
taylorius超过 2 年前
I like how they mention mass-produced goods alongside ivory and illegal weapons.