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A Lost Hiker’s SOS Signal Sparked a Wildfire. Now He Must Pay $300k

97 点作者 xrayarx大约 2 年前

29 条评论

Doctor_Fegg大约 2 年前
Actually laughed out loud at this bit:<p>&gt; In the early morning of May 27, Powers set out to hike what he believed was the 17-mile Cabin Loop, which his guidebook described as an easy-to-moderate trail. [...]<p>&gt; In her verdict, United States Magistrate Judge Camille D. Bibles disagreed [...] He wasn’t, she said, even on the right trail: Instead of the 17-mile, moderate Cabin Loop, he was hiking the 18.8-mile Taylor Cabin Loop, a full 50 miles away, which his guidebook rated as strenuous.
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giantg2大约 2 年前
Using the logic in this case, wouldn&#x27;t almost anyone who needs to be rescued have created their own emergency out of negligence or recklessness? I mean, being unprepared for either the conditions or the emergency is pretty much the definition creating your own emergency. Also, WTF does not having a first aid kit have to do with this? It doesn&#x27;t seem like it would have helped anything in this scenario.<p>Setting the fire like that was reckless. I wonder if he could claim temporary insanity due to the medical state he was in. Heat injuries can have a mental impact.<p>&quot;Setting fires was illegal regardless of the circumstances&quot;<p>I&#x27;m not sure this is the whole picute. Isn&#x27;t there a legal concept that you can break the law to prevent a further harm? Like speeding on the way to the hospital. I&#x27;m betting if he set a distress fire in the fire ring, they wouldn&#x27;t be after him. So that might be misleading.<p>Anyways, my biggest takeaway is that you can make a mistake and be completely fucked for the rest of your life. It&#x27;s safer, legally, to just stay inside and not participate in anything due to legal risks. As perverse as it sounds, it almost seems the hiker would have been better off dying and let his estate sue everybody. At least it seems the legal system prefers it that way.
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rozab大约 2 年前
&gt;While he carried a cell phone, he had no service<p>I find that most people have no idea that the GPS used by phones for positioning has nothing to do with normal mobile signal, and will still work in the most remote areas of the world.<p>Mapping apps have a rough map of the world always locally available, and you can download specific areas to use offline. There is no functional difference between this and a dedicated GPS device, as implied by the article (and the verdict?)<p>Am I wrong?
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grumple大约 2 年前
I&#x27;m not sold on this guy&#x27;s conviction. I know the internet loves seeing people punished, but this guy needed his life saved.<p>I&#x27;ve been hiking plenty, and these mistakes he made are very common (except for going 50 miles off to start... that&#x27;s wild). Rarely do we bring lighting or GPS beyond our phones. We never bring enough water. Trails are often overgrown and it&#x27;s tough to tell where one begins and another ends, sometimes you end up on the wrong trail for a bit. Trail ratings are often off. Even on easy trails, a misstep can mean serious injury or death. It is a much more dangerous activity than most think.<p>I&#x27;m glad he didn&#x27;t end up as another dead hiker.
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rticesterp大约 2 年前
In Virginia, suppression costs of the fire are the responsibility of the fire starter even if they take all proper precautions and there is no negligence involved. It&#x27;s a good law. It protects our national forests. Stories like these make one think twice before starting a fire.<p>&quot;Even if a person takes all proper precautions and obtains any locally required permits, whoever started the fire is responsible for suppressions costs should the fire escape.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dof.virginia.gov&#x2F;wildland-prescribed-fire&#x2F;fire-laws&#x2F;4-pm-burning-law&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dof.virginia.gov&#x2F;wildland-prescribed-fire&#x2F;fire-laws&#x2F;...</a>
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hasmanean大约 2 年前
Would it kill them to put a radio morse code link in the cabin?<p>It could be done with $3 worth of parts, plus a solar cell or dynamo.<p>What is with this insane desire to rough it as living without emergency comms is somehow nobler than having them? There’s no reason why every log cabin should not have a HF voice link to anywhere.<p>I think that in the real old days there were probably tons of people walking everywhere. You just had to sit down in a trail and somebody would walk by. Wild places today would seem deserted by comparison.
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Aachen大约 2 年前
For people like me that are surprised&#x2F;confused as heck at the headline how an SOS message can cause a fire: think smoke signals, not galileo signals.
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jpambrun大约 2 年前
For many 300,000 is a life sentence without parole. Two years in prison would be less cruel. Something feels wrong about this justice..
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jimnotgym大约 2 年前
I am sick of seeing people go out hiking with smart phone apps. Stories like this help encourage others to take care<p>If you are going to use a smartphone app, maybe get one good enough to put you within 50 miles of the right trail
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bjt2n3904大约 2 年前
I remember reading an article about a young engineer that deleted a production database on his first day.<p>He feared that he&#x27;d be fired, but his boss effectively said, &quot;We just learned a quarter million dollar lesson, why would we fire you?&quot;<p>This judge should use this as a moment for public education, and an opportunity to update and clarify trail guides. Instead, it&#x27;s a vindictive and punitive judgement.<p>$1k fine and do a PSA about hiking safety -- that&#x27;s plenty fair. The guy had rhambo for crying out loud, he had legitimate reason to fear for his life.<p>But with this, the lesson learned is &quot;if you ever get lost, remember, it&#x27;s your fault for not preparing enough, and it might be better to just die&quot;.
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bilekas大约 2 年前
Before reading the article i actually was thinking that sounds bizarre. After reading it though it&#x27;s clear this guy really messed up. Even burning the tree for a signal would not have been the last resort.. there are so many things he could have done even after leaving unprepared.<p>I&#x27;m super curious what his level of experience is. It makes a difference of he was just some novice who wanted to take a walk on a sunny day or if he really thought he was prepared.<p>That bill seems huge untill you see the scale of damage. Over 200 square acres is just incredible to me.
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jermaustin1大约 2 年前
As an avid hiker, who gets lost on trails ALL the time, even trails I hike regularly, I (and everyone should) never leave home without a trail map, compass, and offline maps of the area on your phone. The phone maps can help you pinpoint where on the physical map you are once you find yourself lost.<p>You need to learn the trail blazes BEFORE you set off, and most official trail maps have the blazes printed on them so you know you are on the right track. Buying an official trail maps also supports the trail maintainers.
luckylion大约 2 年前
Actual title: A Hiker Started a Wildfire Trying to Signal for Help. Now He Owes the Government $300,000.<p>The editorialized version makes it sound like some gadget started a wildfire and he&#x27;s on the hook for it.
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teeray大约 2 年前
&gt; While he planned to finish the trail in a single day, he also carried camping gear, including stove fuel, a sleeping bag and hammock, a machete, and another large knife.<p>He certainly put too many eggs in the phone basket, relying on it entirely for navigation and illumination. But the other things he packed on a contingency of having to bivouac is not something the average unprepared hiker does. He did save some on his weight budget to pack those things on the assumption that the hike was going to be “easy-to-moderate”. I think the judge is viewing this too much through the perfect lens of hindsight and she likely would have made some of the same (or worse) errors given the same prior information.
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joshstrange大约 2 年前
Was this guy incredibly reckless at almost every step along the way? Yes. I don&#x27;t know his finances but $300K is a LOT of a lot of people and it makes me feel sick to my stomach to see people slapped with fines like these when companies get fines that are barely a slap on the wrist comparatively.<p>I might be able to climb out of a $300K hole with a lot of effort but it would take many years and probably ruin my life in the processes. I also wouldn&#x27;t do what this guy did but that&#x27;s beside the point, it just feels like fines should really be scaled to the person&#x2F;companies income&#x2F;revenue&#x2F;etc instead of how it currently works. Same deal with something like speeding fines.
sergiotapia大约 2 年前
Aren&#x27;t wildfires very good for forests? There&#x27;s a bunch of dead matter on top soil and fires clear all that stuff away and let green grow again. I think I read that somewhere.<p>In Bolivia farmers &quot;chakean&quot; so that sugar cane can grow every season.
rubidium大约 2 年前
He lived. And learned a $300k lesson about being prepared so you don’t mess up the world. Seems like the justice system working.
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johnea大约 2 年前
Personally, I think he should go to jail.<p>One of the worst wildfires in San Diego county history occured for this same reason. Decades later the landscape is still a blackened scar.<p>Instead of fire starting equipment, maybe he should have brought a GPS? Extra batteries? Solar charger? This is crimnal neglegence, nothing less.<p>This thread is also a poster child for the ineffective HN comments feature.<p>After some moron burns up the countryside, all the discussion here is about how different places have similar names?<p>Pathetic...
raydiatian大约 2 年前
As a hiker, and casual observer of patterns in the US court system, the man is being made an example of. “If you fuck up your life hiking, please fix it without starting a forest fire, or just die, well fuck up your life for you when you’re back.” I haven’t hiked Arizona, the bit about picking the wrong trail is suss, but I feel like I easily could have stumbled into the same predicament
freehorse大约 2 年前
&gt; The trail was well-marked at first, and he made it to Taylor Cabin without any issue. A few miles beyond that, however, the trail became rough and overgrown, and Powers soon realized he was lost. For about a half-hour to 40 minutes, he attempted to pick up the trail again before giving up and doubling back to the cabin, arriving there at roughly 6 p.m.<p>So he walked an easy 3 miles path to the cabin, then wandered around lost and went back to the cabin? And then instead of walking these 3 miles back to his car he decided to push through again, even if he was out of water, having no map, and a useless phone that he could do nothing with because he had not downloaded any maps beforehand, and knowing he had difficulty in finding the trail? Am I missing something here that leads to all this making sense, or this person is as an utter idiot as it sounds? No circumstances seem to have forced him to push through blindly hiking into the wilderness and get lost, the court is absolutely right. This is all absurd.
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ekianjo大约 2 年前
That&#x27;s massive title editing going on here. He started a fire by himself.
thrill大约 2 年前
The judge missed an opportunity to apply a reasonable punitive damage and rectify the man&#x27;s apparent willingness to cause inconvenience and risk to others due to his own unpreparedness. A sentence ordering the man to pay for and complete a 45 day outdoor survival course would have done a lot more good.
crystaldecanter大约 2 年前
no one has mentioned perhaps the most important rule of hiking alone: tell someone your plans and what to do if you don’t check in by a certain time.
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gjadi大约 2 年前
For people more used to the SI system, 230 acre is about 93ha.
crossroadsguy大约 2 年前
What’s the next best smartphone or non-smartphone based option to try and navigate if you get lost and don’t have something like a satellite phone or satellite enabled smartphone like those new iPhones?<p>Offline maps with a solar powered charger or power-pack?
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nocababges大约 2 年前
i never hiked or walked 14 miles but assuming he is few miles in to 14 miles way back, is it difficult to walk back say 10 miles without having to give up?
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marcyb5st大约 2 年前
Honestly, isn&#x27;t it well known that if you go hiking you should carry a PLB? Especially now that some are cheaper than hiking boots?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rei.com&#x2F;c&#x2F;plbs-and-satellite-messengers" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rei.com&#x2F;c&#x2F;plbs-and-satellite-messengers</a>
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nisegami大约 2 年前
To me it seems like it would be kinder to humanely euthanize him.
webworker大约 2 年前
An iPhone 14 (with SOS Sat Comm) would have been much cheaper
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