TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Valve bans 40k Dota 2 accounts using honeypot patch

341 点作者 chungus大约 2 年前

37 条评论

izzydata大约 2 年前
I have found over the last 5 years that it is impossible for me to take online multiplayer gaming serious in any capacity anymore. Cheating has become so rampant and so ubiquitous that I have no confidence in any online gaming match to be cheater free. If people are cheating then what am I even playing for? It&#x27;s only fun for me when I know there is some semblance of integrity between the players, but nobody else seems to care. I don&#x27;t even particularly care about being good or winning. You wouldn&#x27;t cheat at tic tac toe despite the inherently low stakes of the game so it doesn&#x27;t seem any different in any other video game.<p>I also have no trust in any sort of gaming related records of feats of ability. I&#x27;ve been deeply involved with gaming communities in the past where people would show off their world records. I would question such scores only to be flamed and then years later it is discovered they were cheating after all.<p>Really my only point is that I despise cheaters and any game that isn&#x27;t single player or only between friends may as well not exist for me anymore.
评论 #34918403 未加载
评论 #34915317 未加载
评论 #34917630 未加载
评论 #34918172 未加载
评论 #34915283 未加载
评论 #34915630 未加载
评论 #34915434 未加载
评论 #34919757 未加载
评论 #34918319 未加载
评论 #34917623 未加载
评论 #34923066 未加载
评论 #34915489 未加载
评论 #34915702 未加载
评论 #34917294 未加载
评论 #34915797 未加载
评论 #34915219 未加载
评论 #34919498 未加载
评论 #34915349 未加载
评论 #34915912 未加载
评论 #34921407 未加载
评论 #34927020 未加载
评论 #34921618 未加载
评论 #34920090 未加载
评论 #34925882 未加载
评论 #34915411 未加载
评论 #34918888 未加载
评论 #34919432 未加载
评论 #34915184 未加载
评论 #34919260 未加载
4gotunameagain大约 2 年前
&gt; This patch created a honeypot: a section of data inside the game client that would never be read during normal gameplay, but that could be read by these exploits. Each of the accounts banned today read from this &quot;secret&quot; area in the client, giving us extremely high confidence that every ban was well-deserved.<p>Any speculation as to how this worked on a lower level ?
评论 #34909431 未加载
评论 #34909368 未加载
评论 #34909531 未加载
评论 #34909402 未加载
评论 #34909887 未加载
评论 #34917720 未加载
评论 #34918306 未加载
评论 #34909377 未加载
评论 #34909399 未加载
评论 #34909397 未加载
评论 #34909355 未加载
评论 #34909385 未加载
jiggawatts大约 2 年前
This suddenly reminded me of how I was “cheating”.<p>Before the game starts each of the ten players gets to pick a distinct hero for themselves out of a pool of about 120 choices. This is over 10^20 distinct combinations! Each hero has some unique capabilities that combo with allies or counter enemy heroes.<p>I tried to train a “hero recommender” based on tens of millions of games.<p>It turned out that this is obscenely difficult because even the best AI training algorithms struggle with such highly noisy labels. A good hero combo might shift win rates by some positive percentage but have a single sample data point, which is a loss because of one stupid kid in the team throwing the game.<p>You also can’t naively simplify the problem into 2-hero or 3-hero combinations because this misses the “total team composition” metrics.<p>I found some research papers that were just a few months old at the time which covered this corner of the AI training space. Their conclusion were: “We don’t know either but it’s an interesting problem!”
评论 #34917457 未加载
评论 #34918232 未加载
评论 #34919383 未加载
评论 #34920226 未加载
评论 #34918224 未加载
ctvo大约 2 年前
Does anyone remember when Warcraft 3 was in beta and got leaked? Pirates created an emulated Battle.net that could work with the beta assets and had matchmaking, ladder, etc. working.<p>Hundreds of thousands played. Blizzard released patches in beta that would, for example, spawn infernals to attack your town hall if it detected you were on the emulated server. This reminds me of that. Blizzard lost their battle, by the way, and people pirated WC3 all the way until release.
评论 #34914903 未加载
评论 #34915025 未加载
评论 #34915234 未加载
评论 #34919405 未加载
评论 #34915055 未加载
tgsovlerkhgsel大约 2 年前
&gt; Each of the accounts banned today read from this &quot;secret&quot; area in the client, giving us extremely high confidence that every ban was well-deserved.<p>I wonder how many non-cheating users of some obscure AV solution that scans memory they banned.
评论 #34919592 未加载
评论 #34919086 未加载
warent大约 2 年前
<p><pre><code> Meanwhile, Riot Games issued a warning to League of Legends and Teamfight Tactics players earlier this year that new cheats could be developed after source code for both games and the legacy anti-cheating software they use was stolen in a data breach. </code></pre> As a past fan of League of Legends and Riot, this is a very typical response from them. Zero effort; meaningless notices. After years of playing, I quit permanently after reviewing my games and finding I was the only one not cheating in about 10 games in a row (that means I encountered about 90 cheaters in a row). This was <i>before</i> the code leak. God help the remaining legitimate community now. It&#x27;s so obvious that Riot sees people as an obstacle to their money.<p>Seeing this news for Dota 2 warms me up inside. I don&#x27;t play Dota 2 because I don&#x27;t want to allocate the time to it, but it seems like they truly care about their community, at least to a much greater degree. Very happy news.
评论 #34915629 未加载
评论 #34915301 未加载
评论 #34918601 未加载
评论 #34915815 未加载
评论 #34915881 未加载
评论 #34915614 未加载
评论 #34919329 未加载
wildrhythms大约 2 年前
The average Dota 2 player count over the last 30 days was around 396,000[1] so am I correct in understanding that <i>at least</i> 10% of all Dota 2 players were cheating in some way?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;steamcharts.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;570" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;steamcharts.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;570</a>
评论 #34909645 未加载
评论 #34909660 未加载
评论 #34909724 未加载
评论 #34911856 未加载
评论 #34909671 未加载
评论 #34910932 未加载
评论 #34909640 未加载
评论 #34912098 未加载
CHB0403085482大约 2 年前
Imagine a multi-player first person shooter game. There are complaints that some players are cheating to win matches. Many of these complaints include a common description in the experience: the alleged cheaters seem to &quot;know&quot; where the other players are, even when not within direct line of sight.<p>In this hypothetical game, there is a feature where, in specific circumstance, one player can in fact see on a map where the enemy players are located. Maybe this feature occurs when enemies are within a specific distance and shooting a weapon. Or maybe it occurs for a limited time when somebody on one team activates a drone and then that team can see the positions of everyone on the enemy team.<p>Regardless, there exists some function called &quot;DisplayPlayersEnemy&quot; that provides this feature. It&#x27;s only supposed to be running in specific circumstances and otherwise is not active.<p>Unless, of course, some players figured out how to always have Function &quot;DisplayPlayersEnemy&quot; constantly running. This gives those players an obvious advantage.<p>So the developers decide to quietly release an update to the game to test this theory.<p>They create an alternative function called &quot;DisplayEnemyPlayers&quot;. It does the same thing as the older &quot;DisplayPlayersEnemy&quot;. And all the processes that had previously initiated the old function now initiate the new function instead. So the game continues to function just the same as it did before.<p>The developers keep the old function in the game, even though there&#x27;s no longer any legitimate way to initiate it. It will still do all the things it did before, so if the function is initiated, it will seem to work as it did before. Except that the developers added a process to that function to identify when and by whom the function was initiated.<p>The developers release the update and then wait.<p>From the players&#x27; perspectives nothing has changed. Except that the cheaters are now about to fall into a trap. Some players did in fact modify their game with additional code that caused the old function to initiate when it wasn&#x27;t supposed to. Since the old function is still in the game, their modifications have continued to work. Many of the cheaters did not notice that the old function had been modified and that a new function had been added. So these cheaters did not know to update their modifications to use the new function.<p>But since there&#x27;s no legitimate way for the old function to initiate after the update, and since the old function now reports data to the developer, the developer knows who modified their game to cheat.
评论 #34919977 未加载
cabirum大约 2 年前
So they detect reads from an external process? What if, instead of an exploit app, an antivirus read the memory?
评论 #34909474 未加载
评论 #34914388 未加载
agilob大约 2 年前
OMG I hope this means they will ban TF2 bots too. This game has been so fucking bad for like 2 years now.
评论 #34910018 未加载
voldacar大约 2 年前
How does the client know when the cheat reads data from the honeypot?
评论 #34915217 未加载
评论 #34915451 未加载
评论 #34915205 未加载
评论 #34916522 未加载
评论 #34915179 未加载
O__________O大约 2 年前
Only way cheating will ever end if players have to risk losing a meaningful percentage of their real world wealth — and even then you would have accounts that get stolen for the sole purpose of being a throw away account to cheat with.
zizee大约 2 年前
Could you just match-up players to similarly skilled opponents?<p>I&#x27;m not a player, but I assume people access Dota using the same account each time they play? Their win&#x2F;loss record should produce a decent &quot;skill&quot; ranking. Those that are cheating will un&#x2F;naturally do better, and eventually they&#x27;ll just be playing each other.<p>It would be sort of like a shadow-banning. They still get to play, but real people don&#x27;t have to come in contact with them.<p>Who cares if the cheaters play other cheaters? Perhaps it&#x27;s a drain on the company resources? But if they&#x27;re paying participants, does it matter?
评论 #34937549 未加载
评论 #34921200 未加载
jeffbee大约 2 年前
I wonder how they developed this honeypot in such a way that the magic page or region of memory was known to have been accessed by a cheat and not by, for example, an antivirus daemon.
评论 #34916422 未加载
VoodooJuJu大约 2 年前
Hopefully some of the banned cheaters are in this thread. I&#x27;d like to hear their story.
评论 #34918555 未加载
s09dfhks大约 2 年前
I&#x27;m curious about what data the &quot;cheats&quot; were reading and how it gave them an advantage
评论 #34915703 未加载
评论 #34915749 未加载
评论 #34914948 未加载
评论 #34914931 未加载
评论 #34915139 未加载
NKosmatos大约 2 年前
Nice move and it’s better that they’re open about it so that any wannabe cheaters might consider it. On the other hand, what is stopping cheaters from creating new accounts and trying to read data from the client with a new exploit or other means?
throwwaway8529大约 2 年前
How can they be so sure that that memory wasn’t accessed due to corruption of a pointer
评论 #34909496 未加载
评论 #34909488 未加载
评论 #34912178 未加载
评论 #34909451 未加载
dbg31415大约 2 年前
I remember this... &quot;Why It&#x27;s Rude to Suck at Warcraft&quot; and I feel like a lot of people want to be good so they cheat... they want to not be seen as bad, or a drag on their team.<p>But yeah... DotA, and League of Legends... some of the most toxic games out there. No community to speak of, just a bunch of sweaty try-hards who probably don&#x27;t get out around humans enough since they&#x27;re too busy playing these games.<p>It&#x27;s rough.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU</a>
gloosx大约 2 年前
&gt;If you are running any application that reads data from the Dota client as you&#x27;re playing games, your account can be permanently banned from playing Dota.<p>This is weird wording, Dota client stores data inside my RAM, on my hard drive, am I free to read what I want from my own hardware? They send me network packages and i send them back, so am I free to sniff my own traffic and examine it? How do they even detect this? I mean, if they exposed the data which leads to unfair advantage, it&#x27;s their fault
fatfox大约 2 年前
Any top players banned? ;)
评论 #34909417 未加载
Jamie9912大约 2 年前
Don&#x27;t popular antiviruses scan entire process memory?
评论 #34917577 未加载
bilekas大约 2 年前
That is an insanely large number of accounts, I understand there&#x27;s always going to be cheaters but I had no idea the scale of it was so bad!
评论 #34909751 未加载
评论 #34909633 未加载
评论 #34909605 未加载
评论 #34912476 未加载
FartyMcFarter大约 2 年前
&gt; This software was able to access information used internally by the Dota client that wasn&#x27;t visible during normal gameplay, giving the cheater an unfair advantage.<p>I&#x27;m curious what this information was - does the Dota 2 client have access to all the game state including players hidden from view?
评论 #34909539 未加载
评论 #34909428 未加载
评论 #34909780 未加载
mkl95大约 2 年前
Could there be any false positives? Data mining for legit use is a big thing in games like World of Warcraft
评论 #34910447 未加载
评论 #34916205 未加载
shadowtree大约 2 年前
If only Battlefield did the same. Or force hard regional blocks between servers, blanket ban China. Release Cheaterfield for them, different kind of entertainment definition in that market.
bredren大约 2 年前
I played a lot of this game (WD for the win) a while back but gave up on it years ago.<p>Cheating was only a secondary problem to the toxic community. It went all the way up to the casters.
throwaway40602大约 2 年前
there was a convar in the game for 6+ years that let you see particles in the fog of war; 99% of cheats forced this convar on. source lets you request CVars from the client and the value, so they simply did that. it has nothing to do with reading memory, but rather writing memory to allow you to see particles
评论 #34913698 未加载
_madmax_大约 2 年前
Personally I thought cheating was a thing of the past since Diablo trainer (for Diablo 1..)
diebeforei485大约 2 年前
Definitely a downside of PC games. This is a lot harder on a console.
quadcore大约 2 年前
Im surprised reading data in the client can give unfair advantages.
评论 #34919006 未加载
seanw444大约 2 年前
Now <i>this</i> is the type of anti-cheat I like to see.
ElijahLynn大约 2 年前
Where is the published list of banned accounts&#x2F;users?
seatac76大约 2 年前
Great work. They need to do it for CS GO too.
ROTMetro大约 2 年前
Can Valve do anything about all the Z flags in their community? I mean, yeah, I know they can. But why don&#x27;t they? F Valve.
评论 #34914558 未加载
评论 #34918081 未加载
评论 #34918719 未加载
helf大约 2 年前
I do not understand the appeal of cheating in MP games. What is the point of being invincible in a FPS or unlimited gold in something else etc? It takes all the effort and skill out of it. It&#x27;s like it&#x27;s a buncha 12yos who cant stand &quot;to lose&quot;.
评论 #34918107 未加载
评论 #34918537 未加载
GoofballJones大约 2 年前
TIL that Dota had over 40k people still playing.<p>ZING!<p>But seriously, I haven&#x27;t played it in years and years...mostly because of the cheating and the toxicity of it&#x27;s players.