TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

EVs are far cleaner than gas-powered cars even if batteries require more mining

94 点作者 DemiGuru大约 2 年前

8 条评论

jnmandal大约 2 年前
They&#x27;re cleaner, no doubt. But are they clean enough that a 1-1 replacement could avert massive ecological destruction à la global warming? No they are not.<p>They are a bridge towards lowering emissions but they cannot get us to zero or negative emissions. For as long as they are in use cars will simply remain &quot;part of the problem&quot;. Acutely, personal vehicles used for quotidian trips are a large part of the contribution towards carbon emissions and can easily be phased out with improved urban and residential design patterns, public&#x2F;collective transport infrastructure, and low-tech solutions like bikes, draft animals, etc .
评论 #35065316 未加载
评论 #35067298 未加载
评论 #35065016 未加载
评论 #35068122 未加载
评论 #35067902 未加载
评论 #35067857 未加载
评论 #35071080 未加载
评论 #35066937 未加载
评论 #35067102 未加载
评论 #35066435 未加载
aseerdbnarng大约 2 年前
I read through one of the papers and a key assumption that the energy mix powering the grid will more halve its co2 output over the next 10 years and cites Germany as the baseline trend. This is a crazy optimistic assumption to make
评论 #35066185 未加载
orwin大约 2 年前
I agree, and it will stay true for a long time.<p>Two issues, the first one small and improving : the smelting is energy expensive and does polute a lot. We&#x27;re improving fast though, now that material scientific research got more credits.<p>The big one: as we use more and more minerals, it&#x27;s harder to find ore as easely accessible or as concentrated. If in the next decade we manage to build tidal&#x2F;solar mining rigs, I&#x27;ll be more optimistic about the future.
评论 #35064029 未加载
kolanos大约 2 年前
In my state, more than two thirds of the electricity is produced by natural gas fired power plants. Does this claim hold up in that case?
评论 #35066712 未加载
评论 #35063276 未加载
评论 #35065356 未加载
评论 #35062611 未加载
评论 #35062152 未加载
评论 #35064168 未加载
评论 #35062026 未加载
评论 #35066956 未加载
cashsterling大约 2 年前
This article and information cited doesn&#x27;t seem realistic to me. I don&#x27;t have time to do a deep dive into their calculations but the claim that EV&#x27;s are 10x more energy efficient over their lifetime just doesn&#x27;t hold water to me or is based on invalid assumptions, e.g. all EV electricity comes from a &quot;clean power source&quot; such as nuclear power, wind, hydroelectric. Excess power for more EV&#x27;s largely does not come from clean power sources.<p>Most &quot;excess power&quot; for EV&#x27;s comes from fossil fuel -- that is, given our current power infrastructure and supply of clean energy, when add power demand from more EV&#x27;s... that supply is mostly coming from natural gas (maybe some coal too, yikes).<p>EV energy lifecycle is roughly: (0) recover&#x2F;frack&#x2F;process natural gas out of ground and transport to power station (1) Burn natural gas to make electrical energy, (2) transmit electricity to charging station... which has transmission loss, (3) charge EV... which has loss, (4) discharge energy from battery to motors...which has loss, (5) convert electrical power to mechanical power to the wheels in the motor... which has loss.<p>Internal combustion engine (ICE) energy lifecycle is: (0) recover crude oil and refine crude to fuel, transport to gas station (1) fill car... very low energy loss, much lower than charge dishcarge of EV&#x27;s (2) burn fuel in ICE<p>Thermodynamic efficiency of burning natural gas is about 45-55% depending upon plant design. There are transmission and charge&#x2F;discharge&#x2F;conversion losses associated with getting the electricity to EV&#x27;s and using it.<p>Burning petrol fuels in an ICE is about 30-35% efficient in modern engines. There are higher carbon associated with recovering and processing crude oil relative to natural gas.<p>When discussing fossil fuel power plants: natural gas plants are about 2x to 2.5x more carbon efficient than coal or other fossil fuel plants on mass of CO2 per kWh generated.<p>I&#x27;m not going to run detailed numbers but more than 10x carbon operating efficiency for EV&#x27;s over ICE&#x27;s is high. I think the operational efficiency benefit is only 2-3x, which is still a lot. I also think these studies are probably under reporting energy requirements for EV battery production because so much of the supply chain is in the developing world or China and it is hard to get accurate data.<p>That all being said, EV&#x27;s are a big part of our future and part of the solution toward building a more energy efficient world.
jdmg94大约 2 年前
the US doesn&#x27;t have the energy infrastructure to have everyone jump on EVs anytime soon
评论 #35064649 未加载
评论 #35062230 未加载
评论 #35066734 未加载
whyfor_butToBe大约 2 年前
for this article to reference the EPA is laughable.<p>The EPA is run by former lobbyists of the world’s major polluters and producers of pesticides&#x2F;herbicides&#x2F;fungicides.
评论 #35063767 未加载
wortelefant大约 2 年前
I was more optimistic about EVs until I learned about the amount of CO2 produced by electricity generation in countris like Germany.<p>nuclear energy has been largely phased down for political reasons and CO2 emissions are still on a level where EVs might not be much cleaner in comparison, see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;app.electricitymaps.com&#x2F;map" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;app.electricitymaps.com&#x2F;map</a>
评论 #35063182 未加载
评论 #35062824 未加载
评论 #35062134 未加载
评论 #35062201 未加载
评论 #35064569 未加载