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Instead of paying adults more, states let companies hire kids for labor shortage

189 点作者 DocFeind大约 2 年前

34 条评论

dmbche大约 2 年前
To everyone talking about how they worked as a kid, the bill talks about industries with labor shortages, such as meat-packing and construction.<p>These are very difficult jobs and are also quite dangerous, it&#x27;s not like being a store clerk. Working in a meat packing plant can bear a toll on your mental well being.<p>As a child, you can&#x27;t be well aware of what you&#x27;re getting into, and these industries can be predatory to their employees (big surprise as to why they are understaffed), by not respecting labor laws or pushing the limits of them.<p>Want your kids to work forced overtime attaching dead chickens to hooks in a fridge? I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s as beneficial as working as a clerk. I wouldn&#x27;t even be comfortable with kids working in kitchens, since these industries are predatory as well!
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machina_ex_deus大约 2 年前
From being able to support a family with only the husband salary, to supporting it with two full time salaries, to barely supporting it even with two full time salaries, all the way back to child labor.<p>The transformation back into feudalism is nearly complete. Hope you&#x27;re happy with the freedom to develop your slave career. Don&#x27;t forget career is the most important part of your life, don&#x27;t forget to pay your 50% taxes so that we can give them as social support to people who compete with you on pricing, as we artificially choke supply with regulations so that god forbid your work will lose its leverage over your life.
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mouzogu大约 2 年前
&gt; &quot;The results indicate that higher wages along with additional non-wage benefits would have expanded the labor supply,&quot; the study said.<p>&gt; But for now, Republican legislators are starting to turn to teenagers.<p>executives &amp; shareholders: &quot;we would rather hire kids than pay a living wage to adults&quot;
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shagymoe大约 2 年前
It&#x27;s really depressing how we totally fail to permanently learn our lessons. We&#x27;re just doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past because there are so many uneducated (and &quot;educated&quot;) people who suck the propaganda tit all day every day.<p>It&#x27;s so bizarre that people will campaign for and champion the rollback of regulations that negatively affect them directly. For what? To feel like your political &quot;team&quot; won? There are REASONS why children have been taken out of the workforce. There are REASONS why food, water, work safety, etc should be protected with regulations.<p>It turns out the majority of people are just incapable of empathy or logic. So depressing.
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agilob大约 2 年前
This is what I do in Frostpunk. A game in an apocalyptic world where everything is frozen and I have a labour shortage to gather mine and wood.<p>And this is what&#x27;s on top of frostpunk subreddit <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Frostpunk&#x2F;comments&#x2F;11pc423&#x2F;the_first_thing_that_came_to_mind_when_i_saw_this&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Frostpunk&#x2F;comments&#x2F;11pc423&#x2F;the_firs...</a>
Ekaros大约 2 年前
Why is solution to get more workers. And not solve the root issue. Cost of living. If we could drive down the cost of living in entire west the labour would short much of itself out. Housing and food should be cheap with our level of automation. Where have we gone wrong with all this?
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jwie大约 2 年前
Ah yes it’s a “labor shortage” not high labor demand and wages of course.
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theFletch大约 2 年前
Call me crazy, but I don&#x27;t think child labor is the solution.
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nobodyandproud大约 2 年前
A real race to the bottom.<p>The superior outcome is to break apart the large slaughterhouses and businesses, and allow smaller family owned farms and coops to redevelop and thrive.
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pg_bot大约 2 年前
My first job was when I was 14, working the express lane for a grocery store after school. The job was easy and I wanted money, what&#x27;s wrong with that?
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steele大约 2 年前
This policy is to suppress wages and legitimize migrant child labor at and after detention.
giantg2大约 2 年前
FYI, you might want to check out the study. It seems a little suspect in some ways. For example, it took place in 2020 and doesn&#x27;t necessarily represent the same environment today, mainly due to the larger tax credit and stimulus during that time. It also seemed like the people surveyed were people who already had jobs paying the same or more than the average meat packer. No shit they don&#x27;t want a job thar pays less. This shouldn&#x27;t be about nabbing employees from other jobs but increasing labor force participation. Higher wages could help with this but I imagine there are other factors to look at too.
anigbrowl大约 2 年前
These legislatures in this states also don&#x27;t want to lobby the federal government for a relaxation of hyper-strict immigration rules that ld increase the available labor pool. So (according to them) we&#x27;re simultaneously full and experiencing an invasion of foreign workers, but also have so few people to fill jobs that we need to let teenagers work in metapacking.
timwaagh大约 2 年前
Paying adults more does not really cover a labour shortage, it just ensures the ones that can&#x27;t afford to do that go bankrupt or relocate so it&#x27;s a false equivalence. Whether this is the right solution people will have to figure out for themselves. Personally I&#x27;m not against it. For a lot of people school can be pretty pointless.
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silveira大约 2 年前
&gt; document.title &quot;Republicans in Some States Want to Ease Child Labor Laws to Fill Jobs&quot;
dirtyid大约 2 年前
Using kids to plug (certain) labour gaps should be permitted but onorously expensive, kids need to cost twice&#x2F;thrice as much to employ. Most of extra pay beyond minimum wage should be locked away and made available after they turn 18.
chasing大约 2 年前
These kids have been mooching off of adults for way to long.
voytec大约 2 年前
I started working willingly at 15, setting up networks and routers in then-booming internet cafés. It were part-time jobs, of course. At 17 I managed to get a government contract to set up a firewall at a military facility.<p>I don&#x27;t see anything wrong with underage labor if it is not forced and doesn&#x27;t disrupt social life or school. I see more harm to kids from &quot;social&quot; networks.
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lobstersammich大约 2 年前
In this post I&#x27;ve read A LOT of incorrect population decline estimates. Here is a paper from The Lancet - not retracted, that I know of - that charts the populations of the present day through 2100 for almost all countries in the world:<p>&quot;Fertility, mortality, migration, and population scenarios for 195 countries and territories from 2017 to 2100: a forecasting analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S0140673620306772" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S014067362...</a><p>Click on the large &#x27;View PDF&#x27; button to read the paper; there is no paywall.<p>The wildly incorrect statement that China&#x27;s population will halve by 2035 is very much off base:<p>&gt; The reference projections for the five largest countries in 2100 were India (1·09 billion [0·72–1·71], Nigeria (791 million [594–1056]), China (732 million [456–1499]), the USA (336 million [248–456]), and Pakistan (248 million [151–427]).<p>China will become the largest economy starting around 2035 but the US is once again forecasted to become the largest economy starting around 2098, according to that study.<p>With the semiconductor on-goings (both by the United States as well as a the EU) over the last six or so months I think this changes the calculus on this, though.<p>---<p>I am wholly against child labor in all its forms and posters who are arguing that bagging groceries part-time after school as a middle-class kid is somehow equivalent to working in a meatpacking plant (a slaughterhouse) or on a construction site are either woefully naive or are arguing in bad faith.
maxk42大约 2 年前
These lawmakers are apparently proposing to reduce the age of labor to 14. That&#x27;s exactly how old I was when I began working in CA. If anything I&#x27;m wondering why 14-year-olds can&#x27;t work in those states already.
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JoshTko大约 2 年前
We&#x27;ve peaked if we need to reverse child labor laws.
hinata08大约 2 年前
What about sending kids to college to become industrial or IT engineers ?<p>They could automate or improve efficiency in areas where cheap manual labour isn&#x27;t necessary ! They could also do research, to keep America at the leading edge of the industry !<p>Oh wait, it means planning for the future economy. And it means universities, mostly operated by <i>governments</i>. This all sounds socialist, hence is bad.<p>It also means that children from the minorities will have a future where they&#x27;re paid better than you, it&#x27;s inconceivable.<p>And anyone won&#x27;t just be able to hire a poor child to profit from is work, so it&#x27;s bad for the short term economy.<p>Am I right or wrong, on why republicans want that law ?
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SuperShibe大约 2 年前
the children yearn for the mines
lmaoge大约 2 年前
how does paying adults more necessarily stop labor shortage
FrontierPsych大约 2 年前
I&#x27;ve worked with the construction and trades industry for a long time - not as an employee, but as a vendor. I&#x27;ve talked to thousands of business owners. Most times at great length about their business and the industry.<p>The most common complaint for <i>decades</i> is a lack of employees. Nothing new here. But a lot of it is that the smaller companies don&#x27;t have a concerted effort to attract talent. This is because most of the trades - plumbing, electricians, etc, are small companies of 2-10 employees. They are not advertising every week for new employees and keeping their resumes on hand for when someone quits their company. The larger companies, while still having problems recruiting, are able to keep their companies at 100 or 200 plumbers or electricans. Maybe the large companies are not growing as fast as they can, but they still have a lot of workers.<p>Most of the construction companies don&#x27;t need to look for work at all. Because of the extreme shortage of employees, they all have way more work than they can do.<p>Child labor would put a dent in what construction companies need. Construction companies can&#x27;t find 18-22 year olds to do the jobs. Why would a child do it? And not many parents would allow it, not even low-income households. Construction is dangerous as fuck.<p>Also, it is EXTREMELY physically demanding. So many people walk off the job after the very first day and just say &quot;fuck it,&quot; just because of the physical demands - not even talking about accidents or safety. It&#x27;s like being at the gym all day, working out for 8 hours straight, every day. Some construction workers must eat 8,000 calories per day to deal with the calorie burn. So you are eating 400% more food and you pay for that extra food, or your parents do.<p>You can see the danger of construction by looking at workers comp insurance rates for different industries. The workers comp rates are based on your payroll. Companies pay $x per $100 of payroll. So for instance, the <i>average</i> workers comp rate across all industries is $2.25 per $100 of payroll. So if your company&#x27;s monthly payroll is $100,000 per month, then your workers comp payments will be $2,250 per month.<p>But it changes by job. So since office work is very little chance of injury, it costs 28 to 99 cents per $100 of payroll. Very inexpensive. An doctors office cotss $1.22 to $3.68 - maybe because a greater chance of getting a disease or moving an overweight patient or whatever - more risk than sitting at a desk, right? A garbage industry worker costs $6.19 to $23.63. Tree trimming and masonry is $12-$43. Carpentry is $15-$50. Roofing is one of the most expensive at $23-$87.<p>The more you have to pay in workers comp, the more dangerous the occupation is. Roofing is one of the highest, because people fall off roofs, off ladders, they carry heavy shingles and hurt their backs. So roofing companies are going to have to pay a lot more than office jobs.<p>FYI it goes by worker - an office admin person working in a roofing company still gets office worker comp rate.<p>But construction is extremely unsafe which you can see just by looking at workers comp costs.<p>One other thing that affects the cost of workers comp insurance is how many claims a company has. Just like auto insurance, the more accidents and traffic tickets you have, the more you will pay, until it is devastatingly high. It&#x27;s the exact same with workers comp. If a company has a lot of workplace accidents, their rate skyrockets, sometimes until the company must go out of business. The reason for the rate increase is because the company has lax safety procedures, on the whole, right? Makes sense. Well, if you have 14-17 year olds, you&#x27;re going to have a LOT more accidents because kids that age don&#x27;t know what they are doing. And you put them in dangerous situations.<p>Think of it this way - if you are a homeowner, would you hire your next door neighbor&#x27;s kid to help you with re-shingling your roof, or any other dangerous or mildly dangerous type of work??? Hell no. Why should we allow a company to do that? And even if you hire the neighbor kid to mow your lawn, that is vastly different than hiring a kid to commercially mow lawns for a business. No way should anyone under 18-years-old be allowe to work in dangerous industries. Mandate that by federal law. If you want to get training for young workers, you can have them go out with estimators or foremen or do office work to understand and train them in the business. But no actual physical work as the tradesman.
walkhour大约 2 年前
To the people concerned about kids depressing the wages of adults, are you also concerned about low wage immigration?<p>Is immigration also capitalism showing its evil hand and do you oppose it because it negatively affects workers? (btw this was Bernie Sanders position until two minutes ago when his views &quot;evolved&quot; and aligned with the rest of the party)
whitemary大约 2 年前
Capitalism is as capitalism does.
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autophagian大约 2 年前
This makes a lot of economic sense, despite the howling from the socialist mob. 14 year olds&#x27; natural agility and nimbleness are assets in meat packing and construction, where they are able to retrieve stray pieces of meat or lost tools that have fallen in or between the large machinery.
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falcolas大约 2 年前
I can I get off this train to distopia? Seriously. Didn&#x27;t we already go through this child labor bit not even a century ago?<p>I don&#x27;t have kids and I still don&#x27;t think that they&#x27;re the solution to labor shortage. And what we do to them now will have serious repercussions when they become voting adults.<p>EDIT: Removed unnecessary rant.
csdvrx大约 2 年前
The negative takes bashing capitalism are weird. First, because keys loves summer jobs and pocket money!<p>Also, it can be fun: I fondly remember my first job! It felt nice to start feeling useful and do valuable things instead of just netflix and games.<p>I only wish I could have started earlier, as it also gave me the opportunity to learn many interesting things and increase my skillset.<p>You may want more money, but if you are an adult and already have a job, maybe think about the kids who&#x27;d love to get A job and ANY money at all!
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UncleOxidant大约 2 年前
I don&#x27;t see a lot of high school students (you can work at 16 with a work permit) working as it is. What makes them think they&#x27;ll find a lot of kids under 16 who will want to work? On the otherhand, yesterday I filled up the car and the attendant who put the gas in (I live in Oregon, no self-serve) must have been about 80 years old. Pretty sure she was not well either based on the raspyness of her voice.
FrontierPsych大约 2 年前
Soon to come in those states - children coal miners:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;nOP8jVV" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;nOP8jVV</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;RgLPM3v" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;RgLPM3v</a><p>Of course, even today there are child workers - in 3rd world countries.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;v5UsSaQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;v5UsSaQ</a><p>Glad to see we are becoming a...3rd world country???
louwrentius大约 2 年前
What I find shocking is that with this few comments there are already HN bros justifying or downplaying the significance of what is happening.<p>Or they are deliberately misunderstanding (I did work at 15) what is really happening.<p>The reality is that in some places democracy has died, politicians are now bought by corporations, who now run those states.<p>It makes me so angry how we are backsliding, losing our rights that have been paid for in blood.<p>At this point I just can’t believe people still want to subject children to this world.
londons_explore大约 2 年前
I think we need to cover the housework-loophole.<p>You can tell a 10 year old to clean the house, weed the garden or wash the dishes. But tell a 10 year old to help dad at work and suddenly it&#x27;s illegal.<p>If getting children to work is bad, then housework should be treated the same as any other work.
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