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Strife at eLife: inside a journal’s quest to upend science publishing

85 点作者 mfld大约 2 年前

13 条评论

seydor大约 2 年前
I think it&#x27;s wrong to defend the current state. Even journals like Nature are game-able to a large degree. You can publish quite mediocre science in them if you socialize with the right editors at the right times. High impact journals are too much of a social club to be trustable, and social actions take too much energy from scientists.<p>eLife is the only high profile journal that experiments with the process. Their experiments may be in vain, because they still need to come up with an alternative measure that funding agencies will use to distribute grants. You can&#x27;t replace peer gatekeeping with nothing, there has to be something else. That said, the &quot;publish then review&quot; model is great, it is a straightforward mechanism that has worked on the internet for decades. We have AI that can weed out the obvious garbage , and the open review process can enhance papers greatly.
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dahart大约 2 年前
Publishing reviews along with a paper sounds amazing to me, that’s a part you never get to see in journals when you’re not a participating reviewer. I’d love to have some reference points of expert opinion and critique come with each paper.<p>I can understand the fears about submission quality. People do prefer submitting to ‘elite’ journals with low acceptance rates, because getting accepted becomes a validation. I wonder if publishing the reviews might take care of that anyway, if the audience will tend to read only the papers with high reviews.<p>Maybe they could have the best of both by publishing a curated set of the top 10% of papers by review scores in a best-of version of the journal, and still publish everything in the main journal. The move to consider publishing everything makes sense in this new world where all papers are on Arxiv, and they frequently make rounds in the press and social media before getting reviewed. I would welcome the eLife changes if it helps quell the trend of completely unreviewed papers vying for attention.
robwwilliams大约 2 年前
The review process is noisy and subject to much social engineering, lobbying, editorial PR, and quid pro quo if also serving as reviewer.<p>Reviews are inherently noisy because there are usually no more than three (over-taxed, unpaid) reviewers. But papers are now often highly multidisciplinary. Luck of the draw applies with force at n = 3 or even n = 10.<p>Reviews DO improve quality of final product, especially in the better journals. But there are still huge gaps in reviewing due to the underlying assumptions about “good” science.<p>For example, the majority if experimental studies using mice and rats use only a single genotype or strain of animal and are therefore essentially n = 1. My inclination is to reject a great majority of such studies without serious review because they are just fancy case reports.<p>So if you lucked out and did NOT get me as a reviewer you may be good to go at Science, Nature, or Cell. If you did not luck out then you will have to fight with the editor-in-chief to overcome my fundamental dismissal of case reports in experimental biology.<p>I support the eLife direction. We have squandered 20 years already and the hegemony gets stronger. Eisen is a bold publication experimentalist.
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low_tech_love大约 2 年前
There are definitely some wrong things with peer reviewing and scientific publishing, but this is hardly a solution. Sure it’s one way to do it; eLife is probably going to turn into a kind of arXiv with reviews. That is, a repository, not a journal. Whether that is good or not for them I guess it’s subjective, but it’s certainly not <i>the</i> solution.<p>I think one interesting model is the one by PLoS (especially with One). As long as the methods are valid, the research is original, and the language is minimally appropriate, the paper gets published. While they strive to eliminate the kind of subjective bias you get from small tightly knit communities (where subjective&#x2F;invisible criteria are enforced in an informal way), they at least try to clear out the obvious junk. As a consequence, they too have become a half-repository, but at least one with a certain entry barrier. Then, at some point during the year, they make a collection of highlights or special picks for the previous year, which kinda work like what a conference would do.
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LudwigNagasena大约 2 年前
That’s a weird change. Publishing reviews alongside papers is good. Removing the “stamp of approval” from the whole process is weird. Imagine if every student who managed to enroll into a university would receive a diploma; and every course would only provide a review of a student instead of grades. That would just make <i>everything</i> much harder.<p>Yes, it may seem wrong to put things into black and white buckets; but many our decisions inevitably are binary and we have to make them no matter how hard it is.
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Beldin大约 2 年前
This is an interesting development. The current publication process is quite broken, including due to the outsized importance given to the broken peer review system.<p>Wrt that: the NeurIPS conference did a test once, splitting the PC in two and having both review the same batch of 100 papers (and arrive independently at a decision). Roughly speaking (top of my head), the two sub-PCs agreed on the top 15% and the bottom 25%. That is: both recognised the obvious good stuff and the clear rejects.<p>For the remaining 60%, it basically was 50-50: one sub-PC would arrive at accept and the other at reject.<p>Which, to me, points out 2 things: (1) there is something very broken for about 60% of submissions... (2) but the process works as we want for the other 40%.<p>So I don&#x27;t think accepting everything would be ideal, but I&#x27;m more than happy to try.
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killjoywashere大约 2 年前
I review articles for an NPG journal. I have seen articles submitted that are essentially advertisements from a company. They don&#x27;t bother to read the journal&#x27;s guidance to authors or anything else. I don&#x27;t see how promising to publish a review alongside that is a good idea. They&#x27;re just looking for free press and you&#x27;re rewarding their bad behavior. No one will see the review. They&#x27;ll see the glossy reprint the company hands out at their booth at the conference, with your journal&#x27;s emblem on it. I&#x27;m not against companies submitting articles, far from it, actually. But how am I going to confidently review a single spaced PDF? I don&#x27;t even have room to jot notes. I am against a complete lack of respect for the process.<p>In a case like that, my advice to the editor is not a review, it is to simply reject for failing to follow guidance to authors. Now, it may be that other journals have a better desk review process before sending out to reviewers, but I don&#x27;t know.
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Vinnl大约 2 年前
I don&#x27;t expect that anyone will see this now, but the eLife Board of Directors has issued a statement in support of the quest to upend science publishing: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elifesciences.org&#x2F;inside-elife&#x2F;9d38cb80&#x2F;elife-s-new-model-a-statement-from-our-board" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elifesciences.org&#x2F;inside-elife&#x2F;9d38cb80&#x2F;elife-s-new-...</a>
Metacelsus大约 2 年前
I submitted a paper to eLife a month before they announced the change. (It was published last month.) I&#x27;m worried that 5 years from now, hiring committees will think of eLife as &quot;not a real journal&quot;.
bluenose69大约 2 年前
It seems unlikely that members of tenure&#x2F;promotion and grant-review committees would have a high regard for candidates who publish in journals that accept papers that garnered negative reviews.<p>We already have blogs, arxiv, and similar. The main addition here seems to be that editors write something in addition to peer reviews. Where will they find the time to write these meta-reviews, and to deal with the inevitable complaints that may follow? This is asking a lot, particularly when it will be in service of a journal unlikely to have a good reputation.
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Vinnl大约 2 年前
eLife is a treasure. eLife isn&#x27;t just another &quot;reputable brand&quot; in publishing; they&#x27;re aiming for a better publishing model. Thus, fears like<p>&gt; They worried it would diminish the prestige of a brand they’d worked hard to build<p>are disappointing to hear. eLife&#x27;s good brand is a way to get their foot in the door, to change the system from within, but the dependence on good journal brands in the academic world is the primary reason that publishers are able to extort the academic world and lock the outcomes of publicly-funded research behind paywalls.<p>It&#x27;s hard to not become the thing you set out to fight once you&#x27;re in the system, but I appreciate that eLife and Eisen are still pushing to change it from within, and I hope they succeed, and that they overcome pushback from the vested interests.
willtemperley大约 2 年前
The problem of toxic reviews would be mitigated by publishing them. It’s a well known issue:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;rude-paper-reviews-are-pervasive-and-sometimes-harmful-study-finds" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;rude-paper-reviews-a...</a>
f6v大约 2 年前
With something like Scientific Reports having first-decision time of half a year this is inevitable.