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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

305 点作者 Krontab大约 2 年前

25 条评论

iambateman大约 2 年前
Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives.<p>The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world.<p>After the blitz of NFT’s last year, I hope the SEC is grumpy as hell.<p>It’s not that crypto doesn’t fit within an established legal framework…it _does_. People have been trying to find their way around securities laws forever, but most of those laws because someone got ripped off.
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tzm大约 2 年前
&gt; &quot;We asked the SEC specifically to identify which assets on our platforms they believe may be securities, and they declined to do so.&quot;<p>Sums up the case quite well.
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thepasswordis大约 2 年前
I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates.<p>In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs.<p>But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a problem and the government needs to come in and &quot;protect&quot; me from it. Why is that, I wonder?
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miohtama大约 2 年前
Here are comments from the Coinbase CEO <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobile.twitter.com&#x2F;brian_armstrong&#x2F;status&#x2F;1638654192138199041" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobile.twitter.com&#x2F;brian_armstrong&#x2F;status&#x2F;1638654192...</a><p>Here are comments from the Coinbase legal <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobile.twitter.com&#x2F;iampaulgrewal&#x2F;status&#x2F;1638660032324829184" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobile.twitter.com&#x2F;iampaulgrewal&#x2F;status&#x2F;163866003232...</a><p>Here is some commentary on Bloomberg <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;tXiOm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;tXiOm</a><p>Here are some earlier comments from Mr Gensler: “Come in and talk to us” <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cointelegraph.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;sec-chair-doubles-down-tells-crypto-firms-come-in-and-talk-to-us" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cointelegraph.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;sec-chair-doubles-down-tells-...</a>
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polygamous_bat大约 2 年前
If you are Coinbase, your primary product is a sort of regulatory arbitrage -- there is legal risk associated with it, and so one of your primary expenses would be an army of lawyers to decide where on the risk-reward curve you would want to be. The army of lawyers is too expensive? Buddy, no one is forcing you to be in this business. Just because you made profits in the earlier years with little to no regulation doesn&#x27;t mean that government is bound to let you keep making that profit forever. Deal with it like a grown businessperson rather than whining.
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latchkey大约 2 年前
In case you&#x27;re wondering if the system is rigged, she obviously knew this was coming...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coindesk.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2023&#x2F;02&#x2F;23&#x2F;cathie-woods-ark-buys-over-13m-of-coinbase-shares&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coindesk.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2023&#x2F;02&#x2F;23&#x2F;cathie-woods-ar...</a><p>and then yesterday... so convenient...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.in&#x2F;stock-market&#x2F;news&#x2F;cathie-woods-ark-invest-dumps-13-5-million-of-coinbase-stock-as-crypto-exchange-notches-7-month-highs&#x2F;articleshow&#x2F;98919340.cms" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.in&#x2F;stock-market&#x2F;news&#x2F;cathie-wood...</a><p>Down 8.16% today...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;finance.yahoo.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;COIN&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;finance.yahoo.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;COIN&#x2F;</a>
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vyrotek大约 2 年前
Interesting coincidence. From yesterday:<p>&quot;Cathie Wood of ARKK sold 160,887 shares of Coinbase, COIN, today.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;unusual_whales&#x2F;status&#x2F;1638334927623311360" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;unusual_whales&#x2F;status&#x2F;163833492762331136...</a>
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pazimzadeh大约 2 年前
&gt; Feb. 9, 2023 — Kraken to Discontinue Unregistered Offer and Sale of Crypto Asset Staking-As-A-Service Program and Pay $30 Million to Settle SEC Charges <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sec.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;press-release&#x2F;2023-25" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sec.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;press-release&#x2F;2023-25</a><p>What&#x27;s the difference between Coinbase and Kraken?
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josh2600大约 2 年前
Regulation is a public-private partnership.<p>Most companies in crypto want to be regulated but haven’t been able to reach a shared plateau of understanding with the SEC.<p>One way or another, we’re going to end up with regulation soon.
aardvarkr大约 2 年前
There’s a lot of discussion on what constitutes a Security so I think it’s a good idea to shine a light on this topic.<p>In 1946, SEC v W.J. Howey Co. (328 U.S. 293) ruled the meaning of “security” as used in the provision of § 2(1) of the Securities Act of 1933 defining “security” as : “For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (undefined by the Act) means a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party, it being immaterial whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal certificates or by nominal interests in the physical assets employed in the enterprise.”<p>There are three components:<p>1. expectation of profits<p>2. a common enterprise<p>3. depends “solely” for its success on the efforts of others.
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dgrin91大约 2 年前
I got a notice today from Coinbase that my staking was being disabled at the end of march, but no hint as to why. I guess this is why.
brrrrrm大约 2 年前
&gt; be tied to aspects of the company&#x27;s ... Coinbase Earn<p>&quot;Commodity linked securities are investment instruments or securities that are linked to one or more commodity prices. Unlike commodities, which provide no income to the owner, commodity linked securities usually give some payout to holders.&quot;[1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;corporatefinanceinstitute.com&#x2F;resources&#x2F;commodities&#x2F;commodity-linked-securities&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;corporatefinanceinstitute.com&#x2F;resources&#x2F;commodities&#x2F;...</a>
TheAlchemist大约 2 年前
Ah Coinbase ! SEC already told them very clearly that those are securities.<p>Coinbase answer ? &quot;Coinbase does not list securities. End of story&quot;<p>Here is their own answer from a year ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coinbase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;coinbase-does-not-list-securit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coinbase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;coinbase-does-not-list-securit</a>...<p>They can cry all their want - it&#x27;s all PR trying to get public support. Kind of like VCs did with SVB deposits insurance..
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TimJRobinson大约 2 年前
Coinbases response: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coinbase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;we-asked-the-sec-for-reasonable-crypto-rules-for-americans-we-got-legal" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coinbase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;we-asked-the-sec-for-reasonabl...</a><p>HN Thread: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35269659" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35269659</a>
dang大约 2 年前
Related ongoing thread:<p><i>We asked the SEC for reasonable crypto rules for Americans</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35269659" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35269659</a>
paulpauper大约 2 年前
wow..down 20% today (8% +12 AH)<p>It&#x27;s like as if it was not bad enough already, things just keep getting worse. Silvergate, First Republic, Signature, and so on.<p>BTC breaking $29k, which was the long-standing support, in June 2022 was the first domino to fall. After that, things just kept going downhill. Many firms, individuals had leveraged positions that were dependent on $29k support holding. When it broke, all hell broke loose. 3AC was the first to fall. Then others followed, like FTX.
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dkrich大约 2 年前
From afar what appears to be going on here is that the sec did nothing for years and years then ftx blew up and sbf went to jail and within the sec there was fear that they appeared asleep at the wheel. So they oversteered and decided to drum up some complaints to look like they are taking action but in reality probably don’t fully understand the space so aren’t able to clearly articulate a case.
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djbusby大约 2 年前
Is this why the payout (interest) on $ALGO stopped?
not_enoch_wise大约 2 年前
It’s only fair that companies get the same advance notice of legal action we give to, say, poor suspects of drug crimes.
8organicbits大约 2 年前
There&#x27;s a really interesting split of opinion on this. I wonder how much that aligns with the commenters personal ownership of cryptocurrecy. If anyone&#x27;s willing to share their usage with their comment, that may help explain the split.<p>Personally, I had about $50 on coinbase at one point. As I felt that I wasn&#x27;t &quot;getting&quot; cryptocurrency. Once I was satisfied that it wasn&#x27;t useful to me I moved almost all of it out, although I still have some &quot;dust&quot; which seems too small to spend.<p>Coinbase seems designed to look like a trading platform, they feature graphs that show historical gains (and IIRC tweak the timelines of those graphs so they are always looking like the trend is up... super scammy...). I&#x27;ve only purchased one thing with coinbase, mostly because I thought that was a good way to move funds out. So personally, I didn&#x27;t get value and I&#x27;m not going to lose money if Coinbase&#x2F;cryptocurrencies tank.<p>The securities question appears to boil down to three questions:<p>1. expectation of profits<p>2. a common enterprise<p>3. depends “solely” for its success on the efforts of others.<p>For #1, coinbase appears to actively hype that with their &quot;graph goes up&quot; design. Their &quot;learning&quot; tool asserts that many tokens also have utility, but that seems only aspirational. Shouldn&#x27;t coinbase track which tokens they feature actually have utility, avoid listing any that don&#x27;t yet have usage, and delist any tokens when it&#x27;s clear they have no utility? They have the data to assess that.<p>For #2, I&#x27;m honestly not familiar with the term.<p>For #3, this seems tied up in #1. If the token has utility, then the coinbase user could &quot;use it&quot; and engage in the market for non-speculative reasons, which should make it go up in value. If there is no utility, then there&#x27;s nothing the user can personally do to increase the value.<p>But all this seems like a distraction to me. Coinbase seems deceptive to me in how they promote tokens to users. It&#x27;s clearly a gambling platform that is trying to sprinkle on just enough &quot;utility&quot; to skirt the rules. The law and guidelines will eventually get updated, I don&#x27;t think coinbase is entitled to SEC clarifications faster than the SEC is ready to share them. SEC is not their personal lawyer. A company trying to skirt the law with careful positioning should understand they are operating a risky business.
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bilekas大约 2 年前
&gt; Staking is a process in which cryptocurrency holders volunteer to take part in validating transactions on the blockchain.<p>For me the key word here is `volunteer`. I&#x27;m no &#x27;crypto bro&#x27; by any means, but can someone tell me why this is against SEC rules ? Or if it explicitly even is ?
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agotterer大约 2 年前
I wonder if we will see more non custodial staking being introduced to protocols. Love them or hate them, that’s one thing Cardano got right.
HPsquared大约 2 年前
Cryptocurrencies are data protected by a private key.<p>Securities are legally binding agreements protected by the legal system.
user3939382大约 2 年前
The banks, which control the government, aren’t going to allow some private company or protocol to replace their control of money.
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AlbertCory大约 2 年前
At a low-earth-orbit level: the government is hostile to crypto. Period. That seems like the best explanation for the SEC&#x27;s actions.<p>If their goal is to make anyone considering investing NOT do it, then this is the way: just create fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Don&#x27;t lay down any clear rules anyone can follow. Just communicate: &quot;We hate you.&quot;