Framework Laptop 16

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is.<p>Also, on another note, I&#x27;ve read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don&#x27;t have an alternative. In a very &quot;Innovator&#x27;s Dilemma&quot; kind of. way, Dell and other big manufacturers have their main lines with higher margins and&#x2F;or volume that really drives their attention and money, so any new innovation that takes more than 1 to 3 years to mature gets cut pretty fast. For Framework is kind a kind of &quot;burn the ships&quot; moment, they don&#x27;t have anything else to turn to, so they have to keep pushing. I really hope they shine (and don&#x27;t get acquired)!

I’m happy to answer questions that folks have on this. There was also an earlier HN thread on our full launch event where we announced 13th Gen Intel Core and AMD Ryzen 7040 Series versions of the Framework Laptop 13, along with a bunch of other stuff: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35277660" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35277660</a>

One of my favorite things for keyboards is the ThinkPad feature where the Page Up and Page Down is above the Left and Right key. I don&#x27;t understand why others don&#x27;t do this, its so practical.<p>Specially in cases like this, there is just an empty space there. Why not put 2 more keys?<p>ThinkPad also makes them full sized keys, that would be even better. But just having empty space? Why?

Framework have a very ... localization-interested website, that can be confusing some times in my opinion. The link here seems to go to the French (hence the &#x2F;fr&#x2F;fr&#x2F; in the URI) version of the blog post, but I still got to see it in English. Confusing. Here [1] is the non-localized version.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16</a>

I hope it&#x27;s possible to fit a pointing stick (TrackPoint) keyboard within that 3.7mm, and that someone first- or third-party makes one. I&#x27;m keen to try replacing my ThinkPad with a Framework as soon as that&#x27;s available, but not before.

Related discussion from yesterday: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35277660" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35277660</a>

It&#x27;s a pity the keyboard design never seriously improves even for the niche laptops.<p>Like, the space to the sides is useless here, but if you could split the keyboard and move that space to to the middle - well, know you&#x27;ve moved one step closer towards more ergonomic typing! Or better yet, you could move all those pinky keys there so that instead of moving your right pinky to hit backspace you&#x27;d just move your right index finger<p>The huge space is also a waste<p>etc., etc.

for the 16&quot;:<p>- I would love an option to have upwards firing speakers where flex&#x2F;numpad space goes instead (one on each side).<p>- please improve the bass in the speakers. according to notebookcheck&#x27;s review, framework speakers have poor&#x2F;near 0 bass output.<p>- please offer either a 1080p or 4k screen option on the 16&quot;. 1440p-ish screens with DPI scaling hackery is no fun and often leads to blurry UIs.

Modular keyboard and QMK! It&#x27;s a niche within a niche but would absolutely love an ortholinear option to the keyboard e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;deskthority.net&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Planck" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;deskthority.net&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Planck</a><p>Though would like this on a smaller laptop, 14-ish inches seem to be the sweet spot.

GPU modularity makes the framework even more interesting for small form factor pc projects. I might pick it up for my re-imagining of the ibm ps&#x2F;2 laptop.

Playing with configurator what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =)

This is starting to be a really interesting choice compared to sticking to thinkpads.<p>The dream would be to have 6 expansion cards in the laptop 13. 4 really is a bummer for a work laptop, it&#x27;s definitely not enough for me… And while you can easily carry other expansion cards and switch at will, it&#x27;s kinda like carrying adapters, you easily forget them.

I&#x27;m thinking of my next laptop. I only use it for work (programmer) plus maybe play movies. I have no interest in games.<p>I don&#x27;t like Windows, and am so-so about Mac, so that probably leaves Ubuntu, which I already use outside of my day job.<p>Are these the kinds of laptops I should buy? Or are there other recommendations?

What&#x27;s the battery life going to be for this one?<p>My biggest issue by far with the Framework 13 is that the battery life is really bad (at least with linux). Less than 2 hours of normal use is not really workable. Will this one do better?

Aside: The international urls for this site are annoying for sharing. I understand it of course but like this one shared as &#x2F;fr&#x2F; when there&#x27;s already been other posts this week about same thing but on other urls<p>main url should be canonical <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16</a> which redirects to local urls (which of course also are likely all in english for the blog post) and was shared earlier<p>not to mention the main product page shared days ago

How compatible are parts from the previous framework laptop? Can the previous one be upgraded with parts from the new one? Seems like that&#x27;s a big part of what makes a framework laptop no?

Why do companies insist on messing with laptop keyboard layouts? Where&#x27;s the menu key? Where are the Home, PgDn, PgUp, and End keys? I&#x27;ve used cheap sub 300-dollar laptops with keyboards more complete than this.<p>The silver lining here is that Framework keyboards are replaceable in theory. I&#x27;ll wait until a proper keyboard gets released.

English link: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;frame.work&#x2F;blog&#x2F;introducing-the-framework-laptop-16</a>

Really happy for anyone looking for a larger high-performance laptop!<p>But personally, I was really hoping for a 13-inch convertible with touch and pen input from these guys... Maybe next year?

I&#x27;m probably going to need a new laptop this year. My needs are simple: large screen, numpad and enough raw compute power to be usable for the primary task my computers face: compiling a large-ish native C++ application. This machine looks like an excellent candidate and I love the modular concept ...<p>... however, every time I&#x27;ve put my faith in &quot;this technology is modular and you will be able to extend&#x2F;upgrade it way into the future&quot;, I&#x27;ve been disappointed. The worst offenders are CPU manufacturers who assure us that &quot;Socket N&quot; will be their new CPU pin format for, well, a good long time, and then two years later we move to &quot;Socket N+1&quot;. The same thing for RAM. My experience that expecting an upgrade path via physical interface re-use with new components buys you at most 3 years, sometimes only 2.<p>Framework appear to building the actual components into their self-design modules, so that they control the physical interfaces. This seems like a step up but if the company remains small then the chance of not being able to upgrade again in a few years because they&#x27;re either out of business, or are not packaging the components you want, seem fairly high. The fact that the designs are going to be open sourced is great, but I don&#x27;t see that as a strong hedge against this problem.

&quot;Finally!&quot;, I wanted to say, but it&#x27;s not actually out yet. No prices known. No specs given.<p>I&#x27;ve signed up for the newsletter. My personal laptop is getting pretty old now. Really hoping it&#x27;s not going to be a Fairphone price–performance+usability ratio, but I&#x27;m most definitely going to consider this as my first option!

I don&#x27;t see this happening any time soon, but it would be really nice to see an 11.6 inch Framework intended for the education market. The new N series &quot;Intel Processor&quot; (aka Celeron&#x2F;Pentium) CPUs are actually quite powerful considering they have a 6 watt TDP. The only problem would be the price.

<i>&gt; Since Expansion Bay modules can extend the laptop in both thickness and depth, we have immense design flexibility to handle generation over generation changes in mechanical, thermal, and electrical requirements for GPUs.</i><p>How do expansion bay modules change the laptop’s thickness and depth?

I want a stand-alone qmk ultra flat chicklet keyboard!<p>Does anyone know what the protocol they use is? I&#x27;d assume for the keyboard it might be usb. So maybe all I&#x27;d need is to solder a flex-adapter to a usb plug and 3D print a case.

I can&#x27;t seem to find any info on display resolution on their website. Am I blind?

I&#x27;m really hoping the Input Module system comes to the Framework 13.

I loathe mouse buttons that are integrated into the touchpad. Is it possible to get a keyboard&#x2F;touchpad for this with separate mechanical mouse buttons?

I don&#x27;t do gaming but I do want to buy a reasonably priced Machine Learning training high-end box somewhere, better with 4090 card installed.

I like having 2 drives. This seems to only have a slot for one drive? It doesn&#x27;t take too long until you end up with TBs of stuff.

The 13.5&quot; Framework display is 3:2. This appears to be 16:9.<p>Any chance the display can be swapped for a 16:10? Otherwise it&#x27;s a no go for me.

If only they would make a laptop with an AMD processor, no discrete graphics + someone makes a decent keyboard with a trackpoint for it, I&#x27;d immediately buy 2, I don&#x27;t care about the price. It&#x27;s also likely that I&#x27;d be able to convince my employer to switch from thinkpads to this. Btw, it&#x27;s ironic that the much cheaper T series Thinkpads work much better with Linux and are much more reliable than the X1 series.<p>Intel processors of this generation are just not energy effiecient and run too hot.

The 13 weighs 1.3kg, how much does the 16 weigh?

A missed opportunity to add a trackpad if you ask me and those bezels looks like they just landed from 1999.

If I&#x27;m ever in the market for a new laptop I&#x27;d definitely consider one of these.

Anyone have experience running Debian or Guix System on a Framework laptop?

At a notebook-specific forum I frequent[1], a user has noticed that the Framework 16 modular discrete graphics solution uses a connector first used by Dell in its Precision 7530 and 7730 workstation notebooks, released in 2018. The connector is called &#x27;Dell Graphics Form Factor&#x27; (DGFF), and is the array of gold LGA pads on the motherboard seen in the bottom-right screenshot in a photo, at the above link. Dell has been using DGFF ever since, in all Precision 7XXX notebooks and the Alienware Area-51m, to facilitate modular GPUs.<p>However, Dell changes its notebook layout every two years, so these GPUs are not upgradeable after two generations (so a 7530 could be upgraded to a GPU from a 7540, but not a GPU from a 7550, released in 2020).<p>It&#x27;s going to be interesting how Framework adapts the connector for its own use. The Dell cards are fairly high-powered; in the most recent 7770 (17&quot; workstation), the RTX 3080 Ti and Quadro RTX A5000 cards may draw up to 130 W.<p>Some examples of previous and current DGFF discrete cards (all by Dell, for Dell notebooks) are here[2][3][4][5]. Notice the difference to the previous mobile GPU connection standard, MXM 3[6], which was used by Dell in its Precisions until 2018, when it changed to DGFF, HP in its ZBooks until about 2020 when it changed to a soldered solution. Other notebook ODMs like Clevo and Tongfang still use MXM cards in their desktop replacement notebooks. I&#x27;m not sure if Clevo still sells these monsters; they had a 780 W power brick, itself heavier than many slimmer notebooks.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notebooktalk.net&#x2F;topic&#x2F;873-precision-7680-precision-7780-pre-release-discussion-raptor-lake-2023&#x2F;?do=findComment&amp;comment=29221&amp;_rid=105" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;notebooktalk.net&#x2F;topic&#x2F;873-precision-7680-precision-...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;aMal40L" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;aMal40L</a> : Quadro P3200 (Pascal), Quadro RTX 3000, Quadro RTX 5000 (latter two Turing)<p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.notebookcheck.net&#x2F;fileadmin&#x2F;Notebooks&#x2F;News&#x2F;_nc3&#x2F;IMG_20190109_162933.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.notebookcheck.net&#x2F;fileadmin&#x2F;Notebooks&#x2F;News&#x2F;_nc3&#x2F;...</a> : GTX 1080? in Dell Alienware Area-51m<p>[4]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.dell.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;guides&#x2F;public&#x2F;Html&#x2F;precision_7560_sm&#x2F;images&#x2F;GUID-E73B16BE-6A77-4FD7-93A8-58F15884F77F-low.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.dell.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;guides&#x2F;public&#x2F;Html&#x2F;precision_756...</a> : new form factor for 7X50 and 7X60 generations<p>[5]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.dell.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;guides&#x2F;public&#x2F;Html&#x2F;precision_7670_sm&#x2F;images&#x2F;GUID-E4A43D93-E55E-4A75-A9E3-410D91DD4B68-low.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.dell.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;guides&#x2F;public&#x2F;Html&#x2F;precision_767...</a> : newer still form factor for 7X70 and now 7X80 generation<p>[6]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;Exp6w0g.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;Exp6w0g.png</a> : MXM GPUs

Isn’t the idea of a modular computer defeated if only one company has a monopoly on the modules that you can buy?

why did they butcher the Entry key instead of making the tab key narrower?

Alas, it&#x27;s got a 16:9 screen with its infamous ugly chin :-(<p>I&#x27;d like a chinless 16:10 or 3:2 goodness (or 4:3), even if it was at a hefty markup.<p>UPD: it&#x27;s a 16:10 display, but the chin is still ugly.

Finally, a proper screen size instead of toy-level 13 inches. You cannot code on a 13-inch display (unless you have eagle&#x27;s eyes and use tiny font) and it feels like the only use for 13-inch laptop is to watch videos and photos on social network sites while sitting in a cafe which makes it a toy, not a real laptop for work (but Apple seems to be selling such toy laptops successfully).<p>By the way the current trend is to install wide, but low height screens. What&#x27;s the use of such screens? For coding, reading articles or working with documents height is more important than width, but manufacturers lower the height and extend the width.<p>Regarding keyboard layout, it is designed poorly: it has small Up&#x2F;Down keys (easy to hit the wrong key) and it doesn&#x27;t have Page Up&#x2F;Down and End&#x2F;Home keys which are necessary for coding or working with documents (but it has useless CapsLock key). What is the intended use of the keyboard? To post short messages on social network sites. They seem to copy the layout from toy laptops without much thinking about the target audience. They claim that &quot;Whether you’re a gamer, developer, heavy Linux user, creator, or have other performance-demanding work, the Framework Laptop 16 is built to be customized to your needs.&quot;. No, your keyboard doesn&#x27;t match the needs of those audiences (except for gamers and vi users who can program even on a calculator).<p>Also, many non-Latin based languages have more that 26 letters, but the keyboard doesn&#x27;t offer additional keys for those letters, and two additional keys to switch to Latin and non-Latin layout. Nobody seems to care about this. Not Apple, not Framework, nor ordinary laptop vendors do not want to adapt keyboards to non-Latin languages and think that 26 keys should be enough for everyone.