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Humanness in the Age of AI

102 点作者 allanberger大约 2 年前

30 条评论

aorth大约 2 年前
Ah, Worldcoin has set up booths at many shopping malls here in Kenya. The first time I saw them a few months ago I was reminded of the &quot;OneCoin&quot; pyramid scam that was big in East Africa a few years ago. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theregister.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;12&#x2F;20&#x2F;crypto_ponzi_scheme_cofounder_pleads&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theregister.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;12&#x2F;20&#x2F;crypto_ponzi_scheme_c...</a><p>Worldcoin gives off really similar vibes. The footer of their website reads:<p>&gt; <i>Worldcoin tokens are not intended to be available to people or companies who are residents of, or are located, incorporated or have a registered agent in, the United States or other restricted territories.</i><p>That doesn&#x27;t sound very good! And then there&#x27;s this critical review of Worldcoin&#x27;s operations in Indonesia <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.technologyreview.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;06&#x2F;1048981&#x2F;worldcoin-cryptocurrency-biometrics-web3&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.technologyreview.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;06&#x2F;1048981&#x2F;worldcoi...</a><p>I really don&#x27;t get good vibes from this whole thing...
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latexr大约 2 年前
Sam Altman is behind both OpenAI and Worldcoin, the latter being a well known scam to gather biometric data.<p>So Sam Altman first creates the situation that we can no longer distinguish humans from bots, then asks everyone to trust him with even more biometric data to get around the problem he created.<p>Either way he wins at everyone else’s expense. I urge you to not take this at face value, Sam has already shown with Worldcoin that he is not trustworthy.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.buzzfeednews.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;richardnieva&#x2F;worldcoin-crypto-eyeball-scanning-orb-problems" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.buzzfeednews.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;richardnieva&#x2F;worldcoin-...</a>
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plainOldText大约 2 年前
Interestingly, Sam Altman is behind both OpenAI and Worldcoin. [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;07&#x2F;worldcoin-cofounded-by-sam-altman-is-betting-the-next-big-thing-in-ai-is-proving-you-are-human&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;07&#x2F;worldcoin-cofounded-by-sam...</a>
astoor大约 2 年前
Note that this is the same Worldcoin that has been going round poor countries scanning people&#x27;s eyeballs with an orb in exchange for some shady cryptocurrency with the primary objective of making some billionaires richer. See e.g. previous discussions on HN at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28947468" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28947468</a> and <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28998065" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28998065</a> . I thought trying to turn our world into a terrifying dystopia for private profit was scary, but this article trying to sell it as something that is somehow beneficial for humanity is even worse.
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gavi大约 2 年前
From their docs: (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.worldcoin.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.worldcoin.org&#x2F;</a>)<p>In broad strokes, this is how World ID works.<p>- User gets their World ID in a compatible wallet (e.g. the World App).<p>- User receives credentials in their World ID. The flagship credential is biometric verification, currently available by using the Orb. The user can also verify their phone number to obtain the respective credential.<p>- Project integrates with World ID.<p>- User connects their World ID to authenticate, and optionally prove they are a unique human doing something only once. The user&#x27;s wallet will generate a Zero-Knowledge Proof to accomplish this.<p>- Project verifies the Zero-knowledge Proof, either by using the API or by verifying on-chain.
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hrqay大约 2 年前
OpenAi started out as &quot;open&quot;, this venture also uses rhetoric that sounds innocent if one is not used to newspeak.<p>More likely, they want to become the central identity provider for the whole planet and collect as much biometric data as possible.<p>UBI plans may also start out as UBI, but will degrade soon: &quot;Hey, we know that it is supposed to be unconditional, but we are running into financial difficulties. Would you mind plucking some cotton to shore up your income?&quot;
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boringuser2大约 2 年前
At this point it seems like simply cedeing computing to AI and reentering the real world might be the way to go.
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hkt大约 2 年前
As I&#x27;ve been reading this (and lobbing remarks in the comments) I&#x27;ve tried to get to the bottom of why this makes me uneasy. I think I&#x27;ve worked it out well enough to express it now.<p>In biology, the more successful a species is, the more parasites, predators, and pathogens adapt to attack it. This means that over time a species has to change in order to survive, or die off by massive and continued attrition.<p>Technology, I think, evolves in the same way. It isn&#x27;t static, it responds to markets, new techniques, and new threats. It can be exploited both technically and socially. And of course, the bigger the target in terms of both users and codebase, the more valuable and vulnerable it becomes.<p>This is a rough way of saying: I don&#x27;t believe a world scale system like this could ever marshal enough continuous investment to respond to the enormousness of the capital that will be spent breaking it by criminals, spies, and probably advertisers.<p>The question of establishing trust in the world has always been hard, even before computers. It is harder now, and the odds are against us.
frabcus大约 2 年前
ELI5, how does this work?<p>It claims to both identify humans and be zero knowledge.<p>What’s to stop me registering a bunch of times then letting my bot use my identities?<p>The answer is implied to be my iris scan. But then it isn’t zero knowledge for some entity is it? Unless it is relying on the Orb never being hacked?<p>Any good third party write ups on it? The WorldCoin page is a bit long and doesn’t quickly explain how it works at a basic level.
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neom大约 2 年前
Here is a talk the engineers gave on the orb scanning system including a hardware breakdown:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MA2ttYtUbF8&amp;ab_channel=ETHGlobal">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MA2ttYtUbF8&amp;ab_channel=ETHGl...</a><p>This whole thing gives me the heeby jebies...
_Nat_大约 2 年前
Their claimed goals and ethics sound pretty compelling. Something along these lines was strongly called for, and if their project ends up serving the general role that they seem to be pursuing, it might serve as an essential element of future society -- either directly or as an early work.<p>Then it&#x27;s also great to see that they seem to be pretty open about stuff, [including their hardware](<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldcoin.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;engineering&#x2F;opening-orb-look-inside-worldcoin-biometric-imaging-device" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldcoin.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;engineering&#x2F;opening-orb-look-insi...</a> ).<p>That said.. it&#x27;s hard to see terms like &quot;<i>coin</i>&quot;, &quot;<i>wallet</i>&quot;, &quot;<i>Web3</i>&quot;, &quot;<i>NFT</i>&quot;, etc., without a bit of concern -- even if, admittedly, such terms might be appropriate and justifiable in this sort of application.<p>Is there a page that shows their overall economic model, perhaps with flow-charts and such? This is, where are the cash&#x2F;token&#x2F;hardware&#x2F;etc. in-flows and out-flows?<p>And is there an early-adopter incentive? And if so, is it significant, or is the system designed to be fair to folks whenever they might join?<p>Asking in part because the classic pyramid-scam thing, where early-adopters end up collecting huge rewards at the expense of late-adopters, seems like a major hallmark of dubious projects. Projects without such asymmetries would seem more credible, both in terms of not being yet another pyramid-scam and long-term viability.
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CTDOCodebases大约 2 年前
Selling the poison and the cure.<p>Why look for a market when you can make one?<p>Nice move!
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Thorentis大约 2 年前
How does this prevent humans from posting content generated by AI using their own verified identities? This coin doesn&#x27;t solve the core problem which is telling AI and human generated <i>content</i> apart. I don&#x27;t care of there is a crypto coin equivalent of a blue tick next to it.<p>This is just another crypto scam coin.
ssss11大约 2 年前
A small fee to use a service will get rid of fake identities and bots. The answer is charging a fair fee. Not scanning iris’ to track that every person only has one account.
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wskish大约 2 年前
It&#x27;s only when you are the product that you actually need to prove you are human
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hkt大约 2 年前
It is a crazy world when digging up PGP&#x27;s web of trust model seems like a simpler safer solution, but here we are.
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pffft8888大约 2 年前
Weird coincidence, I tweeted roghly the same idea two weeks ago:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;marcfawzi&#x2F;status&#x2F;1636115903959158785" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;marcfawzi&#x2F;status&#x2F;1636115903959158785</a><p>Obviously, it&#x27;s a no-brainer idea at a high level. The devil is in the details.
93po大约 2 年前
&gt; It empowers individuals to verify their humanness online while maintaining their anonymity through zero-knowledge proofs. Advancements in AI make it difficult to distinguish between AI and humans on the internet, highlighting a need for authentic human recognition and verification.<p>I am absolutely relieved to see this. This is exactly what I&#x27;ve been saying we all need endlessly online for years now. And especially because the internet is about to be overrun with AI generated garbage.<p>Yes - we need to be cynical with any implementation of this. We need to find flaws and criticize every aspect of it. But we absolutely 100% need this technology if we want online discourse to continue. Reddit is already a hellhole of bots and generated content, and has been getting progressively worse for years.
hkt大约 2 年前
..why do we suppose an iris scan can&#x27;t be faked by an AI?
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seydor大约 2 年前
This will definitely become illegal by governments who don&#x27;t want to lose their monopoly on private data. It is also already possible in many countries to digitally sign documents with government ID.<p>&gt; (2) preventing the dissemination of AI-generated content<p>This is not preventing it, since humans can also disemminate such content. Real humans are behind the &quot;bot networks&quot; that some authoritarian countries use on facebook.
Hoasi大约 2 年前
This whole identity verification narrative will rapidly veer toward a dystopian social credit system where tracking of your whereabouts and spending is inescapable and accepted by everyone.<p>But sure, let&#x27;s first verify that you are a genuine human. Insert coin to play again, please.
swader999大约 2 年前
I&#x27;m perfectly happy to let AI run its course and totally destroy reddit, Wikipedia, Google, Twitter, Amazon, Facebook and so on with endless content that everyone can just ignore. Let the humans get back to IRL.
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beej71大约 2 年前
When AI produces better quality content than most people, will we really care? It makes me sad to even ask, but I strongly suspect the answer is no.
phreeza大约 2 年前
I read this as humane-ness. Found the opposite...
makingstuffs大约 2 年前
Another cryptocurrency project giving away free money. Brings back to the age old saying “if something seems too good to be true…”
voz_大约 2 年前
Anything blockchain is a scam, move along.
affgrff2大约 2 年前
What would prevent a malicious party from &#x27;reaping&#x27; identies by force?
scotty79大约 2 年前
The design is very human.
hkt大约 2 年前
&gt; creating 1,000 bot accounts would require finding 1,000 human users willing to consistently verify their authenticity.<p>New mechanical turk-alike in 3, 2, 1. Really though. This would barely dent the budgets of disinformation campaigns.
xch大约 2 年前
Polygon is a scam
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