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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

377 点作者 YuukiRey大约 2 年前

45 条评论

1827162大约 2 年前
I think it&#x27;s the total visibility that&#x27;s causing mental illness. There is no space where you can be with your friends, screw up, and <i>not</i> have it become known to everyone in your peer group. There&#x27;s little space to make mistakes. No space to be yourself. You are under the watchful gaze of your friends, i.e. peer surveillance, nearly all of the time. Which induces stifling conformity.<p>Everything&#x27;s under constant scrutiny. And your friends end up exerting social control over your life through social media.<p>So your &quot;friends&quot; in essence, force you to use these platforms. If you don&#x27;t you will be treated as a social outcast, a pariah. It makes you wonder what these &quot;friends&quot; really are in the first place.<p>On top of that, parents are on there too, and can more easily find out what their children are up to, thus allowing them to be helicoptered and coddled even more than ever before, thus stifling childrens&#x27; development, because in order to learn responsibility, they need the freedom to be able to make mistakes, and be exposed to the natural consequences of those mistakes.
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softwaredoug大约 2 年前
As a parent. It&#x27;s a hard topic. And not black and white.<p>For the 10+ crowd, the days of kids roaming the streets, finding their friends and playing are gone. I think the causes for this are complicated, and social media (and screens) are just one part of the puzzle.<p>Consider a few things:<p>1. The percentage of households with kids has gradually declined over time, while the percentage of retirees has gone up. So you just generally have an older population. Not everyone lives in a neighborhood where kids can roam and likely some other, known, parent will keep an eye on them.<p>2. Tolerance for children (esp teenagers) IMO has declined. Understandably, they... can be obnoxious :). There used to be more IRL activities for teens. I&#x27;ve seen, however, even movie theaters don&#x27;t want ANY minors there without a parent. There&#x27;s not a shopping mall to drop them off at. And the pandemic has REALLY hurt this.<p>3. The pressure for teenagers to fill their time with activities is very high. The parents feel to perform &#x2F; get into whatever good college &#x2F; do well in life, they need to have their time spoken for by a large number of activities. Helicopter parenting has really taken new heights in the last decade.<p>Combining these, society, for a myriad of reasons, doesn&#x27;t have a lot of opportunities for teenagers to truly be independent. And that too has been cited as a cause of mental health issues (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedaily.com&#x2F;releases&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;230309101330.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedaily.com&#x2F;releases&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;230309101330.h...</a>).<p>It&#x27;s a doom spiral too, the fewer kids that are free roaming, the less likely your own kid, when kicked out of the house, will find friends to play with. The less likely other parents will be conducive to your kid knocking on their door, etc etc.<p>So without kids roaming the streets, how do they connect with their friends? They use some kind of screen &#x2F; video games &#x2F; social media &#x2F; etc. And depriving them of this can mean limiting an outlet of some degree of independence.<p>Case in point, my son and his friends have a small discord server. And they play minecraft on a shared server. This not the same as scrolling TikTok &#x2F; Instagram. But it&#x27;s a degree of independence somewhat away from parental eyes.<p>Should I ban them from screens, and send them to ride bikes out in a world with few other kids? Or let them have this niche of a social &#x2F; independence outlet?
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freework大约 2 年前
If you ask 10 different people why they are depressed, you&#x27;ll get 10 different answers. This illustrated why I think the scientific method is the wrong way to go about understanding the human mind.<p>Also, if you ask a depressed person why they are depressed, they may not know exactly why they are depressed. I spent my entire high school years depressed. It wasn&#x27;t until a few years after I graduated college before I realized the reason why I was depressed: it was because I had abusive parents. If you had asked me in high school why I&#x27;m depressed I would have said something like &quot;I&#x27;m a bad person but I have no reason why&quot;. At the time I thought my parents treated me like I was a bad person was secondary to the actual problem.<p>If you really want insight on what makes the human mind depressed, then ask people who have overcame their depression. The first step to overcoming depression is to discover what is making you depressed. If someone is still depressed, they probably don&#x27;t know what is making them depressed, and so their &quot;data&quot; is just noise.<p>The problem with the psychology field is that it has an obsession with &quot;data&quot;. Everything has to be on a pie chart of a line graph or something like that. Every &quot;study&quot; has to be on a grand scale and then averaged together to make a single conclusion.<p>The problem is that the human mind of not replicatable. You can perform a &quot;study&quot; on a sample of people and get a result, and then replicate that exact same study on the exact same sample of people at a later time, and still get a different result. In order for the scientific method to be applicable, you have to be able to get the exact same result each time you replicate the study. This is not possible in psychology.
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raxxorraxor大约 2 年前
&gt; girls who spend more than 4 hours a day on social media have two to three times the rate of depression as girls who spend an hour or less.<p>Not that it proves anything, but the converse argument, that depressed girls spend more time on social media or online in general, should also be examined. If the data could support this thesis to a similar degree, there is no conclusive statement about social media really inducing depression. It isn&#x27;t just about effect size in my opinion but I don&#x27;t see this problem answered.<p>That said, it doesn&#x27;t need to be depression, there are other venues for negative influences. I am always ready to yell at the cloud for that.
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standardUser大约 2 年前
&gt; In social media research, we focus on “how much social media did a person consume?” and we plan our experiments accordingly...Most don’t even distinguish between platforms, as if Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, and TikTok are just different kinds of liquor.<p>This is the problem I have with studies of &quot;social media&quot;. It&#x27;s like saying &quot;the internet&quot; causes problem, or &quot;computers&quot;. These are overly broad categories and I refuse to believe someone interacting with tight-knit hobby groups on Facebook for 4 hours per day is suffering the same consequences as someone doom-scrolling photos of models on Instagram for 4 hours per day.
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mensetmanusman大约 2 年前
Starting to get to the age where my oldest daughter is demanding access to social media because all her friends are using it. Surprised more parents aren’t aware of the harms.
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MisterBastahrd大约 2 年前
Let&#x27;s assume that it&#x27;s hurting girls.<p>Why would that be?<p>Because we raise children wrong.<p>Women often complain that when men post photos of themselves on dating sites, that they do so either with buddies, or holding some trophy of some sort.<p>But that&#x27;s simply because men are taught from a young age that their value is measured in what they can provide or achieve. Girls, on the other hand, are taught that THEY are valuable. We can go back hundreds of years and find evidence for this, as arranged marriages were usually a transaction between the parents of the couple: usually livestock, goods, and land for the hand of the maiden. Nobody&#x27;s paying for a new son. Likewise, there&#x27;s no show called Groomzilla where bridegrooms lose their minds attempting to plan a wedding.<p>In 2012, the &quot;thigh gap&quot; started becoming a popular trend among girls and women in the US. For many women, attaining such a thing is a nigh-impossible feat. Their bodies simply aren&#x27;t built that way. Very few of my male friends thought that thigh gaps were even attractive at all. But women don&#x27;t dress and exercise and eat for men, they do it for women and womens&#x27; perceptions.<p>Compare that to today. Our popular media is dominated by a rainbow of ethnicities with bodies to match. The Kardashians are bobbling around with breast augmentation, butt lifts, botox, microblading, and lip filler to seem more &quot;exotic&quot; and women are following suit. Nowadays it&#x27;s not such a bad thing to have a naturally big butt with thick thighs, and many more women are on the internet proclaiming their weight to the public to show people what XXX pounds looks like on a X&#x27;XX&quot; frame.<p>It&#x27;s been 9 years and the thigh gap girls would be out of place today. Many would consider it unattractive.<p>It&#x27;s not social media.<p>It&#x27;s that we teach girls that their physical appearance and their wardrobe is what gives their lives value. That&#x27;s what you have to fix. Everything else is just vigorous hand waving in an attempt to sound intelligent.
woodruffw大约 2 年前
Just to levy a single criticism among several: I find Haidt’s rebuttal of the climate change hypothesis unconvincing: fears around climate change are not “energizing” in the way that prior crises are, in a significant part because public sentiment around climate change is that we’re already doomed in a way that isn’t really possible with social crises. Similarly: I don’t think most teenage girls were voraciously reading Al Gore in the 1990s; extensive public awareness of climate change doesn’t imply a disproportionate impact on youth, especially when we consider that more extreme weather events (and their reporting) began in the mid-late 2000s.<p>I think Haidt could probably make his argument stronger if he discussed social media as an <i>accelerant</i>, rather than a cause in and of itself. I can’t think of any real reason why he doesn’t (it makes his argument strictly stronger, and results in the same conclusions) other than ideological ones: he’s too baked into his incestuous “heterodox” world to weaken his claims.
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0xcde4c3db大约 2 年前
This part seems deeply questionable to me:<p>&gt; Congress should raise the age of “internet adulthood” from the current 13 (which was set in 1998 before we knew what the internet would become) to 16, and enforce it by mandating that the platforms use age verification procedures, a variety of which already exist<p>Yes, age verification procedures exist, but I don&#x27;t know of any that are actually effective without also being privacy&#x2F;security nightmares. Haidt&#x27;s analysis of &quot;what damage is done&quot; seems to assume an idealized implementation that never incorrectly flags an adult or causes a leak of personal information.
Glyptodon大约 2 年前
I have mixed thoughts about this.<p>I think there are at least two or more factors and social media is a part of it, but it doesn&#x27;t operate in a vacuum.<p>The reason I think this is that there seems to be a small minority of people who have the skills and mental models to use social media as a tool without adverse impact, as a well as another minority of people who seem to be able to remain distanced or minimal users of social media, without adverse impact.<p>These two groups seem to suggest that some kind of key missing life skill when combined with a need for social connection leaves people uniquely vulnerable to problems with social media.<p>My somewhat clueless guess about this is that people aren&#x27;t situated to understand distance, authenticity, and relationships sufficiently. Maybe part of the problem is that many people are so socially starved of authentic and healthy loving relationships of all kinds in their lives, that many people can both know this but still be vulnerable. In some sense, maybe vulnerability rises because social media is a poor but just good enough placebo for loneliness?<p>I am also convinced that poor parenting compounds whatever is going on. Anyone who puts their 5th grader on Facebook or similar is a terrible parent IMO. Just the same as anyone who uses the iPad as a babysitter is a terrible parent IMO. But I suspect in many cases poor parenting is an artifact of parents who feel so trapped in unstable lives that hey can&#x27;t feel stable or devote time comfortably to their kids. So maybe yet another factor.
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taeric大约 2 年前
Wow. I both respect this post, while being annoyed at its direction. It is very respectful in the intro, by explicitly not trying to be attacks against the critics. However, it then is entreating the readers to pick a side for most of the rest.<p>I assert that you should not pick a side. Instead, you should look at how you can add to and learn from the data. Odds are high that both sides have some points that are worth picking up, such that picking a side is almost certainly shutting you out of some good ideas.<p>My personal push would be to say that claiming mental health became a problem in 2010s is absurd. It has long been a problem, as evidenced by such easy examples as Columbine. Before that, it was likely a largely local problem. In that you didn&#x27;t hear about the kids that were having trouble, but they were there.<p>Does this contradict the assertions of the troubles of social media? I don&#x27;t think so. Just don&#x27;t think you have shielded your kids from all modern sources of mental ill by simply keeping them away from social media.<p>This is like thinking that drinking coffee or wine is de facto healthy for you. Likely, the health benefits are as much on what you were not drinking instead. Such that, keeping kids from social media by keeping them engaged with others around them is likely a net positive. By how much of that is keeping them engaged in a participatory way, versus keeping them apart? Such that, if you can get them engaging with things in a healthy way, you can make everyone in that area healthier. You can see this with online groups that are healthy. Yes, there will be some level of banning, as we all have capacities. But the healthy crowds engage. They don&#x27;t just shout down. Even when they have to deal with people shouting, attempts are made to moderate.
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mawadev大约 2 年前
It is truly remarkable to which great lengths people go to justify their unhealthy relationship with social media. It is nearly the same as telling an alcoholic they have an alcohol problem and then hearing excuse after excuse and re-framing and mental gymnastics to jump around the elephant in the room.<p>I&#x27;m glad write-ups like this one are a thing.<p>Maybe our parents were indeed right when they told us we are glued to our devices and should go touch grass.
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amluto大约 2 年前
One of cited objections is absurd:<p>&gt; I don&#x27;t trust any area of research where the odds ratios are below 3.<p>Then what’s the point of researching even slightly more subtle effects? This person might as well start smoking: they wouldn’t trust any amount of evidence that smoking causes cardiovascular disease — the odds ratio seems to be 2.
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knallfrosch大约 2 年前
Kudos to Mr Haidt. I wouldn&#x27;t have the patience to explain over and over again why being addicted to your phone and comparing your looks to global superstars makes girls lonely and depressed. People will argue over percentage points of an r-value instead of simply asking three girls whether using Instagram four hours a day makes them happy.
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psychphysic大约 2 年前
It&#x27;s quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health.<p>I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can&#x27;t avoid experiencing it&#x27;s toxic influence.<p>There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality.<p>Twitter show cases this best, it&#x27;s prison politics in web form. Everyone&#x27;s in a gang and god help you if you aren&#x27;t everyone will have a go at you.
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kloch大约 2 年前
I just want to say this was one of the most enjoyable articles I have read in a long time. It&#x27;s informative, respectful to critics, and exudes a &quot;confident but restrained&quot; tone that is so rare in public discourse these days.
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Decabytes大约 2 年前
I wonder how much of the negative aspects of social media are due to the gamification of it as well as the algorithms that boost certain types of content.<p>For example, if Twitter had no algorithm, didn&#x27;t show you the number of views on your post, didn&#x27;t show you the number of likes on your posts or retweets, and you just used it to post funny memes, interesting articles, and life updates to your followers if it would still have the same negative impacts that it does today.<p>I also wonder what a social media site would look like if the only way to follow someone, was if they gave you a QR code that was generated on their phone. That way most of the people that followed you would only be people you&#x27;ve met in real life. The QR code could expire in like 5 minutes to prevent people from just posting it somewhere to get follows. It would be much more private, and much slower paced, and people couldn&#x27;t see any of your posts without following you.
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rjmunro大约 2 年前
I think there is some good stuff that could be described as &quot;Social media&quot;, and lots of bad. For example I think all the &quot;influencer&quot; stuff is likely to be problematic, where people show how great their lives are (and by implication how bad yours is).<p>I think social media like following just your real life actual friends on Twitter &#x2F; Facebook &#x2F; having a WhatsApp group is a very different thing.<p>I think that many videos on YouTube are no different or better than normal TV. Things like creators teaching their skills, or Numberphile.<p>I&#x27;m worried that by saying &quot;Social media is bad&quot; we will throw the baby out with the bathwater.
thuridas大约 2 年前
What about monitoring variable levels of social media consumption with the individual levels of depression &#x2F; anxiety.<p>I have periods of higher and lower social media usage. And I have noticed that there is a strong inverse correlation with my mental health.<p>My personal experience is just anecdotal evidence but a study with time variation may eliminate a lot of individual factors ( e.g people with depressing nature using more social media) but leave open the question if depression causes the increase of social media or is there other way around. ( I think thant both)
ZeroGravitas大约 2 年前
Does he ever address the inconsistency of warning for years about &quot;coddling&quot; young people too much then suddenly pivoting into &quot;social media is making our kids mentally unwell&quot;.<p>Shouldn&#x27;t it toughen them up? How does his proposed coddling differ from the bad coddling?
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tanseydavid大约 2 年前
I really wish there were more essays about controversial subjects that would take on the tone and presentation of information in the manner that Jonathan Haidt does it.<p>He really is an exceptional communicator and (to me at least) appears to be more interested in &quot;the truth&quot; than he is in &quot;being right.&quot;
thomastjeffery大约 2 年前
&gt; Similarly, when the Polish-American philosopher Alfred Korzybski said “The map is not the territory,” he was reminding us that in science, we make simple abstract models to help us understand complex things, but then we sometimes forget we’ve done the simplification, and we treat the model as if it was reality.<p>I think this is a very useful criticism for the subject as a whole.<p>The very term, &quot;social media&quot; is incredibly broad. That doesn&#x27;t mean it&#x27;s <i>useless</i>: but we should recognize that it contains a lot of diverse context. If there is a cause of mental illness, what would that look like contextually?<p>The introduction of smart phones and social media can provide a long list of answers to that question. Which of those answers is more or less significant?<p>None of this is to say we shouldn&#x27;t be concerned about the effect that social media and smart phones have on mental health. What&#x27;s important here is <i>what we choose to do about it</i>.<p>Do we promote a different type of social platform? Current social media sites like Facebook and Twitter are infamous for promoting unhealthy behavior. What kinds of alternative behavior would be <i>healthy</i>?<p>Do we encourage parents to limit their childrens&#x27; social media time or invade their childrens&#x27; privacy? The internet is a significant attack surface for bullying and assault, but is it wise for parents to simply take its place?<p>Do we encourage parents to take away mobile devices, and reinforce traditional face-to-face social activity? Social with who, and where?<p>It&#x27;s abundantly clear that social media and smart phones have caused a significant change in our society. We can do better than blindly react to that change.<p>I would argue that the most powerful tool of the human mind is objectivity. The more we learn about <i>how</i> social media and smart phones change our society, the better equipped we will be to direct that change to our benefit.
AlbertCory大约 2 年前
If I just walk around the neighborhood, nearly half the pedestrians are staring at the phone, oblivious to where they&#x27;re going. Sometimes I have to shout &quot;Hello!&quot; to get them to not run into me. <i>And these are (mostly) adults.</i><p>One guess what class of app they&#x27;re all staring at.
Wensio大约 2 年前
I quit Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Never got in tiktok or any other social media. Our brains aren&#x27;t mean to handle so much information at once. We can&#x27;t parse it. We can&#x27;t distinguish reality from fiction when we&#x27;re constantly being told several things at once or youre being told a lie several times a day. I also can&#x27;t stand that we can&#x27;t just live our lives without having a company collect data to try and manipulate and &#x2F; or sell me something. I understand that some people need social media but, if you can do without it...do it.
thih9大约 2 年前
What about the increase in mental health awareness (including: better education and reducing the stigma) - is being able to detect more cases contributing in a meaningful way to the overall increase?
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Aerbil313大约 2 年前
I see such links in HN to be a very good example of mental illness, if you need research to know social media causes mental illness, then you’re mentally ill (or never used social media). It should be obvious to anyone who used social media for any significant amount of time. Yet social media usage is so normalized, especially in places like HN where people are chronically online, that people just self-rationalize.
moi2388大约 2 年前
I don’t think you should listen to what psychologists say; even with their own studies at least 2 out of 3 times it cannot even be reproduced. Let alone something they <i>didnt</i> design a study for..<p>As far a common sense goes; social comparison and depression have already very well known links, and social media is purely social comparisons, so it wouldn’t be a stretch to think social media might have an effect on depression incidence or severity.
nightowl_games大约 2 年前
Is Hacker News &quot;Social Media&quot;? I think it probably is. Do we apply the same critique of Social Media to our own relationship with Hacker News?
7402大约 2 年前
I thought this statement in the article was particularly worth celebrating:<p>&gt; So this is a good academic debate between well-intentioned participants. It is being carried out in a cordial way, in public, in long-form essays rather than on Twitter.<p>I wish there were more examples of this kind of discourse for other hot-button issues of the day.
DoreenMichele大约 2 年前
<i>Furthermore, when you zoom in on girls, the relationships are not small: girls who spend more than 4 hours a day on social media have two to three times the rate of depression as girls who spend an hour or less. The common refrain “correlation does not prove causation” is certainly relevant here, but I showed that when you bring in the three other kinds of studies, the case for causation gets quite strong.</i><p>I know from long experience that saying &quot;I got this far in the article and I can&#x27;t be bothered to read the rest&quot; is a good way to get hated on, but give me a freaking break. You have to first ask <i>why</i> those girls are spending <i>more than four hours a day</i> on social media.<p>The obvious inference is that the girls who spend less than an hour a day on social media have full lives and the ones spending so much time there it&#x27;s like an unpaid part-time job have vacuous lives and they are trying to fill the void with something that can&#x27;t do it.<p>Social media no doubt exacerbates their issues but, no, it doesn&#x27;t <i>cause</i> them. Their lives are screwed up and excessive use of social media is more like a symptom.
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RockyMcNuts大约 2 年前
If Pascal&#x27;s wager teaches us anything, it&#x27;s that we want to start from a maximum-entropy prior and model the process generating the two hypotheses.<p>If a guy ends up living in a gold palace with Michelangelos on the ceiling if those are the only two hypotheses to consider, that might skew his analysis just a bit.
ajkjk大约 2 年前
Hmm, he seems to think that the criminal standard of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) is equivalent to p&lt;0.05 in the sciences. That is highly dubious. I&#x27;m surprised he doesn&#x27;t know the by-now standard belief that p&lt;0.05 is, itself, a criminal standard of proof (lol).
yodsanklai大约 2 年前
I&#x27;ve been noticing that I&#x27;m much more likely to argue&#x2F;fight with friends by text rather than in person. Not talking about social media, just plain old chat. Maybe because we miss real-life signals that help us adjusting the conversation.
theGnuMe大约 2 年前
We need to improve our emotional intelligence by talking about emotions and feelings to become more resilient. We as a society are emotionally immature and let others manipulate us and cede power to them because we are scared of our true selves.
1letterunixname大约 2 年前
When I see someone taking a selfie at a pool who appears to have had cosmetic surgery, I simultaneously feel pity for and disinterested in knowing them for being slaves to and simulacra for the opinions of others.
zajio1am大约 2 年前
I think that blaming &#x27;social media&#x27; is kind of misguided. That is mostly passive thing. The real issue is more likely toxic social relations and communication with peers, which is just provided by social media.
pxoe大约 2 年前
the whole insistence on going with what they believe in, &#x27;social apps bad&#x27; (and kinda just that, not really going deeper into &#x27;what are the interactions&#x27;, etc.), just makes this seem kinda off (and gives a &#x27;collaborative confirmation bias&#x27; vibe). sure, apps exist, but is it &#x27;apps&#x27; or &#x27;people being social&#x27;. and they kinda touch on that, but still fall back to &#x27;social media bad&#x27; as a clickbait headline. &#x27;it&#x27;s kinda not about that, but let me engage in clickbait anyway&#x27;.<p>&#x27;being on a social app&#x27; is a high level &#x2F; ambiguous enough of a thing, that trying to tie a rise in &#x27;communication availability&#x27; and &#x27;people being online&#x27; to rises in other things, kinda doesn&#x27;t connect. (well, not as directly of a &#x27;cause-effect&#x27;, muddled with all the various ways that &#x27;use&#x27;&#x2F;&#x27;online&#x27; can be.) sure, it may be &#x27;screen time&#x27;, &#x27;time spent online&#x27;, but then just say that, not like it&#x27;s &#x27;social media being there, at all&#x27;<p>if they want to continue milking that headline, great. i just no longer see &#x27;pointing at social apps and saying social app bad&#x27; as interesting, insightful, or valuable, at all. it&#x27;s saying nothing.
williamcotton大约 2 年前
How many of Haidt’s critics have large enough followings on social media that they are familiar with the sweet taste of upvotes?
MrYellowP大约 2 年前
The map is indeed not the territory. There is an insane amount of people who live in a fantasy world, where they believe that theory equals practise, which is absolute and utter nonsense. They do not understand the value of experience, most likely because they don&#x27;t actually have any.<p>1. One can always derive theory from practise, but never the other way around.<p>2. You might have read every single book about boxing, but that still doesn&#x27;t make you a boxer.
quantum_mcts大约 2 年前
Couldn’t it be that people become more aware of mental health problems because of social media?
webdoodle大约 2 年前
Stop calling it social media, it&#x27;s anything but social. It&#x27;s Anti-Social Media, and it is destroying civilization.
maybelsyrup大约 2 年前
Why do people still take this guy seriously
ThinkBeat大约 2 年前
Mental health is an incredibly tricky thing to study. Since all observations are of a person says they feel and what observations can be made of the person and what they may say various semi standard questionnaires.<p>The first problem is defining what depression is. This is actually hard.<p>The present official definition can be found here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC6176119&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC6176119&#x2F;</a><p>A great lecture on it by Professor Robert Sapolsky can be found here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc</a> He does this far far better than I ever can. I include a tiny transcript below.<p>Even within the medical field the term is used in ways that complicate matters.<p>We find &quot;Depression, otherwise known as major depressive disorder or clinical depression&quot;<p>This is incorrect.<p>In everyday use the term depression is not equal to &quot;clinical depression&quot;, or &quot;major depressive disorder&quot;<p>In regular conversation depression is often used instead of &quot;sad&quot;. or &quot;bummed&quot;.<p>If relying on a self-report survey that asks in part if you feel or have felt depression over XXXX timeline a lot of people will say &quot;yes&quot;. Yet most will probably not meet the definition of major depressive disorder or clinical depression.<p>If in everyday speech care was taken to only use depression for sad, and clinical depression was used for the metal disorder then things would be easier but as I showed above even medical professionals tend to use the term &quot;depression&quot;.<p>I think using the term &quot;depression&quot; has become a lot more popular than it was.<p>50 years ago, using it in common language was so common.<p>This gets better in the studies when (some) people attend college where (some) people are seen by mental health professionals. However, in my personal knowledge hte above is also primarily self-reported, and not based on the treatment and therapy of the majority of the people in question.<p>Yet we have a non-representative sample. Only people with privilege to attend high university and of them the people who have sought out help.<p>So that is the problem of semantics.<p>A second problem is why If a girl who spends only 1h a day on social media is less prone to &quot;depression&quot; than a girl who spends 8h a day on social media does that mean social media is the big factor.<p>I find it likely that it wold often be the case that a person with a healthy social life, a good family, good activities, that takes up a lot of time.<p>While someone who spends 8h on social media per day perhaps needs more positive activities. Which can be incredibly difficult to achieve.<p>The argument has been made in different forms for a long time. Too much TV, too much rock music, too much video games, too much black metal.<p>Yet I do think that social media is far too often a destructive component in someone&#x27;s life. With severity than listening to a vinyl recording all day or playing Quake. I would be quite happy if it all died. It dont see that happening.<p>Partial transcript of a lecture by Professor Robert Sapolsky &quot;&quot; So starting off, first giving a sense of symptoms. And right off the bat, we’ve got a sematic problem, which is we all use the word depression in an everyday sense. You get some bad news about something. You now have to replace the transmission in your car. Somebody disappoints you enormously. And you feel bummed. You feel depressed. You are down for a few days. That’s not the version of depression I’ll be talking about.<p>Next version, you do have some sort of large, legitimate loss, setback, whatever, losing a job, unemployment, death of a loved one. And you are extremely impaired by a sense of malaise for weeks afterward. And then you come out the other end. That’s sort of what I’ll be talking about.<p>But even more so what I’ll focus on is the subset of individuals who, when something like that occurs, falls into this depressive state. And weeks and months later, they still have not come out the other end.<p>Terminology. The everyday depression that we all have now and then, that sort of version. The second one, the something awful happens and you feel terrible for a while, and then come out the other end, a reactive depression. The third version, where you are flattened by it for long periods afterward, a major depression. And what you also see with people with major depression after a while is it doesn’t take something awful externally to trigger one of those again.
Freire_Herval大约 2 年前
People always say correlation does not equal causation but they never mention how does one determine causation definitively?<p>Unlike typical observational science, causation must be established by having the experimenter intervene with the experiment himself. The experimenter must introduce or remove smart phones to the population being experimented on and record any changes to the data.<p>So it&#x27;s actually very possible for the author to prove his own theory beyond reasonable doubt.<p>These are the 2 options I can think of that can be done individually or together:<p><pre><code> 1. Remove smart phones away from people who are depressed. Measure depression levels over time. 2. Pick a set of humans that don&#x27;t use smart phones and choose who will have access to smart phones and who never will over a period of 5 or 10 years. Measure depression levels over time. </code></pre> We have procedures in place to prove things like this with medicine. I think it&#x27;s very possible to conduct experiments like this with the rigor of clinical trials given that you can literally remove or introduce the predicted causative agent from any human: smart phones.<p>It&#x27;s worth it to mention here that not all things are amenable to causative experiments. I believe in climate change but it is not possible to run a causative experiment where you remove or introduce the causative agent: greenhouse gases. It is unfortunate that climate change cannot be established as true beyond reasonable doubt simply because all current evidence is correlative.<p>But for smart phones it is very very possible for the author to go far beyond a retort and actually prove his claims correct.
tokai大约 2 年前
Then why has the rate of suicides fallen instead of rising in the same period mental healths apparently should have gotten worse?
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