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“Considered Harmful” Essays Considered Harmful (2002)

109 点作者 doodlesdev大约 2 年前

29 条评论

dgrin91大约 2 年前
+1 to this. Nowadays when I see some "Considered harmful" post on HN its tends to be some dude on his personal blog talking about how in his 2 years of programming experience JS framework X is bad and instead you should use JS framework Y. Instant red flag and I'm likely to ignore.
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karaterobot大约 2 年前
&gt; Typically, “considered harmful” essays gets written because someone has an axe to grind, and they feel like making that grinding process both public and dogmatic.<p>Well and concisely put. I agree.<p>Personally, what bothers me most about &quot;X considered harmful&quot; essays is the unspoken subject of the sentence. Who is it that considers X harmful? The title is structured to imply a broad consensus that is well beyond the point where anyone could possibly disagree with it. They want you to read it as &quot;X considered harmful by all experts you should trust&quot;, but it&#x27;s almost never that. The author is making up an authority, then telling you the authority is on their side.
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dang大约 2 年前
Related:<p><i>“Considered Harmful” Essays Considered Harmful</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9744916" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9744916</a> - June 2015 (79 comments)<p><i>&quot;Considered Harmful&quot; Essays Considered Harmful</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=290490" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=290490</a> - Aug 2008 (4 comments)
dan-g大约 2 年前
A list of “Considered Harmful” snow clones: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Considered_harmful" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Considered_harmful</a>
forinti大约 2 年前
All generalizations are bad.
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acheron大约 2 年前
I&#x27;ll take &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; any day over &quot;Falsehoods Programmers Believe&quot;.
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dontupvoteme大约 2 年前
Dijkstra wrote what he wrote and chose the words he did because he was Dutch.<p>To some extent Anglos will never understand.
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ggm大约 2 年前
I dislike &quot;your anti spam idea will not work because&quot; lists more. They&#x27;re an FAQ of reasons people say &quot;won&#x27;t work&quot; when they just mostly mean &quot;does not please me&quot; or &quot;invokes regulation and&#x2F;or finance ie costs and I&#x27;m here for free&quot;<p>It&#x27;s fine to be opposed to regulatory or cost models but saying won&#x27;t work masks the real issue: don&#x27;t want.
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superb-owl大约 2 年前
As someone who wrote a Considered Harmful essay which ended up on the front page [1], allow me to disagree.<p>&quot;X Considered Harmful&quot; lets the reader know very precisely what it is they&#x27;re about to read: a warning about a particular pattern or behavior that is common but tends to backfire. This goes for all meme-ified headlines (&quot;X I love you but you&#x27;re bringing me down&quot;, &quot;Unreasonable Effectivenes of X&quot;, etc etc)<p>It&#x27;s important to bring nuance to a discussion rather than taking an extremist position, and I think that&#x27;s the author&#x27;s main gripe. But nuance also adds confusion and waters down the message. Sometimes it&#x27;s better to stake a clear position at the outset, and then address the nuances.<p>You can&#x27;t just have balance; you have to balance balance with imbalance, balancedly [2]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33865030" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33865030</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;slatestarcodex.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;09&#x2F;12&#x2F;in-the-balance&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;slatestarcodex.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;09&#x2F;12&#x2F;in-the-balance&#x2F;</a>
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gavinhoward大约 2 年前
I authored a &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essay against another &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essay. [1] I knew about this essay when I wrote mine, and I <i>still</i> wrote mine.<p>Why? Because the author of this essay is a hypocrite. He specifically disclaims his own essay from consideration:<p>&gt; For example, a piece titled “‘Considered Harmful’ Essays Considered Harmful” would very likely be a case of using the “considered harmful” format to draw attention for its own sake. We will ignore such essays in this commentary.<p>But in so doing, he claims that using &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; to draw attention to the essay is fine. That&#x27;s why <i>I</i> used it, and it worked. [2]<p>He also says they are typically used by someone with an axe to grind. This is true. To combat this, I took a mellow tone in my essay, as compared to the inflammatory post I originally wrote on the same topic. [3]<p>And yet, he transparently has an axe to grind against &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essays because he does not allow nuance:<p>&gt; It would therefore seem obvious that the only intelligent course of action is to abandon their use entirely, and instead look to more constructive forms of essay writing in the support of debate positions.<p>Basically, he says that use of &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essays must be abandoned completely because they don&#x27;t support their intended positions well.<p>If so, why did he write one of his own? Is it parody or actually serious? I can&#x27;t tell.<p>But sometimes, &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; is the best way to express something. In that case, use it. But IMO, you should only do it after careful consideration, like what I did for my essay.<p>Don&#x27;t hamstring your writing by restricting your expression, and don&#x27;t be a hypocrite. But do be careful and mellow.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;10&#x2F;static-linking-considered-harmful-considered-harmful&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;10&#x2F;static-linking-considered-ha...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28736238" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28736238</a><p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;01&#x2F;dynamic-linking-needs-to-die&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;01&#x2F;dynamic-linking-needs-to-die...</a>
tombert大约 2 年前
I more or less agree; &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; has a bit of an authoritative tone, and I feel like it should be reserved after long studies and whatnot.<p>I think if the essay were &quot;Why I don&#x27;t like &lt;x&gt; in language &lt;y&gt;&quot;, that would be a much more honest title.
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bee_rider大约 2 年前
Goto is a perfectly good command in moderation. So, the first instance of “Considered Harmful” was harmful; the pithy title combined with the famous author has resulted in a disproportionate response (the total loss of this perfectly decent bit of syntax).
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kwertyoowiyop大约 2 年前
At least “The Unreasonable Effectiveness of…” essays are no longer unreasonably effective.
at_a_remove大约 2 年前
We should probably do &quot;Falsehoods Programmers Believe ...&quot; one, called &quot;Falsehoods People Believe About Falsehoods Programmers Believe.&quot;<p>Ted in Marketing insists on a last name. That field is how the cold callers sort.<p>Your boss&#x27; boss made promises, there&#x27;s no time to cover all of these edge cases you keep talking about.<p>Shipping says we don&#x27;t serve India, anyway, so why are you making us go through this?
freedude大约 2 年前
This a &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essay about how &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; essay&#x27;s are considered harmful.
carabiner大约 2 年前
Memes considered memeful.
motohagiography大约 2 年前
Considering &quot;Considered Harmful&quot; Essays Harmful Considered Harmful.<p>I actually think I could write a LISP out of this.
zelphirkalt大约 2 年前
If we get enough people writing about &quot;considered harmful&quot; using the very words &quot;considered harmful&quot; as a kind of counter, will we see the next level in form of those being &quot;considered harmful&quot;? (&quot;considered harmful&quot;^3, or perhaps ch-ch-ch?)
piwi大约 2 年前
This writeup is not backed by data and looks to be the author subjective opinion. I had a chance to read some &quot;considered harmful&quot; essay that where more convincing. In the end it boils down to the quality of the content, and the source is likely to be a better hint than the title.
eimrine大约 2 年前
Negative cliches:<p>(...) considered harmful<p>(...) is a fractal of bad design<p>Positive cliches:<p>And now for something completely different<p>New directions in (supersede) topic<p>I hate to see some low-quality articles which just repeat some extraordinary good documents. All these examples I have seen in a short period of time such as one week.
zoklet-enjoyer大约 2 年前
Assassination Politics by Jim Bell<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cryptome.org&#x2F;ap.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cryptome.org&#x2F;ap.htm</a>
andrewstuart大约 2 年前
“Considered Harmful” is like &quot;Open Letter&quot;.<p>For some reason it is meant to bestow gravitas to the topic.
akasakahakada大约 2 年前
OK let me ask, is &quot;take 60mins to understand but 1000x faster code&quot; harmful?
charlieyu1大约 2 年前
I don&#x27;t know, but Dijkstra&#x27;s comment about BASIC sounds right to me
pjio大约 2 年前
Generalizations are always wrong (at the least to some degree).
rocket_surgeron大约 2 年前
Considered harmful considered harmfuls considered harmful!
cromulent大约 2 年前
(2002)
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carabiner大约 2 年前
Harm considered harmful.
Havoc大约 2 年前
Always struck me as weird phrasing. Very prevalent in hn subculture specifically.
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