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Group accused in $225K 'dice sliding' cheating scheme at Las Vegas casino

120 点作者 Jerry2将近 2 年前

30 条评论

gumby将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m curious what kind of law might prohibit this. I&#x27;m not doubting that such a law might exist in a state like Nevada, just not sure how it might be written.<p>On the casino side I can imagine a a slot machine might be required to have some kind of certified RNG and some requirement of statistical behavior, or that a roulette wheel must have some certification of symmetry etc.<p>On the player side I can imagine ordinary false currency laws to prohibit putting slugs in slot machines etc, or marking or switching out cards, using fake chips etc.<p>But in a game with an affordance that permits moving the dice in this way, how would you write such a law? In a craps table the dice must travel far from the hand and must bounce off the back end so the technique in the article is mechanically impossible. I&#x27;d think that this is the casino&#x27;s mistake, not the players&#x27;, but apparently some law says otherwise.
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jwr将近 2 年前
&quot;This content is not available in your country&#x2F;region.&quot;<p>This should be removed from HN: the content is not on the Internet.
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fleshdaddy将近 2 年前
I see some folks in this thread underestimating casinos and exactly how far the odds are tilted against the players.<p>I grew up in Vegas and have a lot of family and friends who work in the casino industry. A particular family member is an executive at one of them and told me that he has control over the odds on machines (within the legal limit) down to a particular machine being used by somebody. Apparently this means if they need a particular high roller to stick around for awhile and spend some money they can go ahead and grease the odds on the machine they’re using to give them some winnings to spend. Then they can just make it back the next day or whatever by cranking it back and making the odds worse. Honestly at first I thought he might be exaggerating but some time later I had a friend who worked corporate finance at one of the big casinos independently tell me the exact some thing.<p>These casinos though are really no joke. It’s one thing to skew the odds, and most people understand that, but being able to skew them in real time feels a lot more rigged. I assume some machines don’t operate this way because for many years the smaller casinos had machines that you could break even or win a bit consistently in poker, and some casinos even advertise odds. Still though its pretty shocking if my understanding is correct.
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QIYGT将近 2 年前
Looks like autocorrect got to them:<p>&gt; the cheating involved multiple suspects and occurred on the Azure Roll to Win Electronic Craps table<p>It&#x27;s actually Aruze: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aruzegaming.com&#x2F;table-games&#x2F;roll-to-win-craps&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aruzegaming.com&#x2F;table-games&#x2F;roll-to-win-craps&#x2F;</a>
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Cockbrand将近 2 年前
Non-geoblocked: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;2023.05.26-084312&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.8newsnow.com&#x2F;investigators&#x2F;group-accused-in-225k-dice-sliding-cheating-scheme-at-las-vegas-casino&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;2023.05.26-084312&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.8newsnow.co...</a>
DigiDigiorno将近 2 年前
If this is just vanilla sliding&#x2F;fraud (distract the dealer and then slide the dice without any air time), then this is just a normal case of cheating&#x2F;fraud...<p>However, this isn&#x27;t a normal felt craps table, instead of felt it&#x27;s an electronic screen.* I wonder if the they were able to get the dice to slide after landing due to the physics (coefficient of friction&#x2F;restitution?) of the screen being very different from felt. If so, this may** be a little more interesting.<p>*I think the type of table looks like this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0w9gZAjwqZs">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0w9gZAjwqZs</a><p>**I imagine it is still quite a small chance this gets more interesting. But FWIW a possible interesting scenario would be the Nevada Gaming Commission finding that they made a legal throw or something
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nlh将近 2 年前
I’m super ambivalent about stories like this. Ignoring what the actual laws are for a moment - this is a game designed by the casinos to their advantage. If a player can figure out a way to get his or her own advantage, more power to them!<p>I think the casinos can and should of course be allowed to ban people from playing if they don’t want them to play (their house their rules, literally).<p>But criminal charges? That feels just wrong. Falls in the same bucket as companies who pursue criminal charges against white hat hackers &#x2F; security researchers.
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LanceH将近 2 年前
I&#x27;ve wondered about this asymmetry between company and individual.<p>Player throws the dice wrong -- crime. Hotel overbooks and doesn&#x27;t provide what was already paid for -- oops.<p>Don&#x27;t scan something at Walmart? Arrest and prosecution. Get double scanned -- who gets arrested? Who will pick up that prosecution?
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wuliwong将近 2 年前
I was a little disappointed to learn that &quot;dice sliding&quot; is literally just dice sliding. :)
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austinjp将近 2 年前
For anyone else who gets a message about the content not being available in your region, it looks like this is the same story:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thehill.com&#x2F;homenews&#x2F;4021669-group-accused-in-225k-dice-sliding-cheating-scheme-at-las-vegas-casino&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thehill.com&#x2F;homenews&#x2F;4021669-group-accused-in-225k-d...</a>
fortran77将近 2 年前
Here&#x27;s an explanation of &quot;dice sliding&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=E1qmoDJIunY">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=E1qmoDJIunY</a>
abduhl将近 2 年前
The article is unclear about this but what is the illegal part here?<p>“The cheating method involved dice sliding and sliding occurs when the shooter slides one or both dice across the table in order to prevent the cubes from rolling,” the documents said. “The dice will be in the same position as they started, allowing the shooter to control the outcome of the game.”<p>What portion of this is illegal? The casino should be running these games so that this isn’t possible.
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Kaibeezy将近 2 年前
Good short video explanation of sliding. Roll one, spin the other on 6. It’s very specific.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;W2Jz9UenEPg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;W2Jz9UenEPg</a>
paulpauper将近 2 年前
A 9-5 would pay more if they all pooled their money. Casinos invest considerable $ in fraud detection, and are very close with law enforcement and DAs despite the matter being more civil than criminal. Casinos hate to lose even if it&#x27;s not that much money. They will review the same tapes hundreds of times to catch even a small cheat.
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vallismortis将近 2 年前
Nevada, seriously. This is an &#x27;electronic craps table&#x27; where the House controls _literally_ all aspects of the game, and the players are being prosecuted for &#x27;playing wrong.&#x27;
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duxup将近 2 年前
I’m confused, is nobody monitoring the people throwing the dice and noticing that they aren’t rolling at all?
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ranting-moth将近 2 年前
I&#x27;ve never heard of Craps or Electronic Craps so I googled.<p>The last time I searched for a game that was gambling related, the ads I got for the next 2 months were nearly all gambling ads. It was craaaaazy.<p>I don&#x27;t gamble and never have, but the thought crossed my mind that if this happened to someone recovering from a gambling addiction, he wouldn&#x27;t have had a chance.
pests将近 2 年前
Can anyone find what they were actually charged with?<p>Like others here I don&#x27;t see was illegal about this. Did they have to circumvent access controls or something? The article did mention it was an electronic craps table. How does that even work? Is there someone running the game? Is it totally self-serve? How exactly were they &#x27;sliding&#x27; dice? Is there even any rules that the dice must &quot;roll&quot;? What if you threw the dice and it landed perfectly with no sliding and no rolling, is that still a legal throw or did they just accidently cheat?
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ChuckMcM将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m dead: <i>Gaming board investigators identified the suspects through surveillance video and </i>their players’ club cards,* documents said.*<p>Didn&#x27;t want to miss out on their bonus points.
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elhudy将近 2 年前
I’m awestruck that anybody would take the time to devise such a scheme and not recognize the insanely high&#x2F;low:risk&#x2F;reward for swiping their players cards.
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xpressvideoz将近 2 年前
How could the incident happened in 2021 be revealed in 2023? Do they retain the videos from the surveillance camera for that long?
m3kw9将近 2 年前
So just slide the dice across the table, that’s it? It the tables fault for not preventing that by adding bumps
spoonjim将近 2 年前
They forgot the #1 rule: the house always wins, even if they have to take you to the courthouse they own.
bigbacaloa将近 2 年前
If you win consistently in a casino, then you are cheating, and the casino will not pay out.<p>First claim is self evident to anyone who understands the odds on these games. Second is self evident to anyone who understands the gambling business minimally.
pbj1968将近 2 年前
And the casinos get millions in free advertising and people now think there’s a secret way to gain an edge. The house always wins.
jsheard将近 2 年前
Mirror: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;Sjzdz" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;Sjzdz</a><p>(site is &quot;not available in my region&quot;, presumably they&#x27;re blocking GDPR countries)
martyvis将近 2 年前
I am shocked, I say again, shocked, that it is possible to cheat in casinos.
Miner49er将近 2 年前
If I had found a flaw in a game like this I wouldn&#x27;t assume exploiting it is cheating and definitely wouldn&#x27;t think it would be illegal. If the game allows something that can happen accidentally (and especially if it is electronic) I would assume it is allowed.
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omginternets将近 2 年前
Isn’t this just being good at the game?
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wly_cdgr将近 2 年前
Free my kings