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San Francisco Homeowners Lose $260B in Value

65 点作者 thomasjudge将近 2 年前

21 条评论

woodruffw将近 2 年前
As with previous articles from this source[1], this article contains misleading editorializations: the &quot;pooper scooper&quot; compensation number includes the government&#x27;s retirement and insurance obligations, and doesn&#x27;t reflect anywhere close to actual take-home pay[2].<p>I&#x27;m not a SF resident, and have no particular loyalty to it (or any particular interest in defending its municipal policies). But the author (and publication at large) seem to be interested primarily in gleeful portrayals of SF&#x27;s collapse, with factuality as a distant concern.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35857223" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35857223</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;san-francisco-poop-patrol-em...</a>
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ianstormtaylor将近 2 年前
This article and lots of the commenters are falling into the same trap that happens in every article about San Francisco. It states:<p>&gt; In 2018, the city created a pooper scooper team, each member of which received annual compensation of about $211,000 that year.<p>The implication of a $211K salary sounds too ridiculous to be true. And instead of assuming that it is therefore false, people freak out. If you look up an actual article from the time [1], you&#x27;ll see that the claim is already not true purely by the numbers:<p>&gt; workers make more than $184,000 a year in salary and benefits<p>And if you dig in further you&#x27;ll see that &quot;and benefits&quot; is a huge caveat:<p>&gt; Employees of San Francisco&#x27;s &quot;Poop Patrol&quot; are set to earn $71,760 a year, plus an additional $112,918 in benefits, such as healthcare and retirement savings, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.<p>That $112K in benefits includes health care benefits (which are mandated for city workers, which is a good thing). And health care—if you&#x27;ve been paying attention—is completely fucked in the US, so any attempt at pricing it is going to sound ridiculous. The workers don&#x27;t actually see any of that money.<p>If you take the $72K in salary, you&#x27;ll see that it is below average for San Francisco:<p>&gt; On average, a San Francisco resident earns about $96,677 a year, nearly double the median household income in the US.<p>And &quot;below average&quot; is what you&#x27;d probably assume a sanitation worker makes. So a huge amount of outrage over nothing.<p>Which would personally lead me to flag this story, rather than trust any of the other numbers its quoting.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;san-francisco-poop-patrol-em...</a>
dilippkumar将近 2 年前
&gt; In 2018, the city created a pooper scooper team, each member of which received annual compensation of about $211,000 that year. Given the inflation that has occurred since that time, scooper compensation may be close to $250,000 per year today.<p>I needed to read this to convince myself that I’m not asking for or expecting outrageous compensation at work.
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tomashertus将近 2 年前
The article nitpicks on some of the most pressing issues that were so many times discussed. But I find this bit to be absolutely hilarious:<p>&gt; In 2018, the city created a pooper scooper team, each member of which received annual compensation of about $211,000 that year. Given the inflation that has occurred since that time, scooper compensation may be close to $250,000 per year today.
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cornfutes将近 2 年前
If houses in hot markets truly had economic &#x2F; inherent value, for example the quality of life improvement &#x2F; job opportunities, then that can’t really be lost.
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gleenn将近 2 年前
If you own a home, and it goes up in &quot;value&quot; 50%, and then back down without you ever selling, does that mean you &quot;lost&quot; that 50%?
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tsunamifury将近 2 年前
As pointed out in the article the lions share of losses are in Pac Heights and Nob Hill due to the outsized prices already there.<p>I rent a home there that fluctuates between 7 million and 5 million over the course of the pandemic and I watched a neighbor poor over 100! Million into a house when he thought things were only going up.<p>That being said most people here don’t ever sell really. You just hold and buy another home someplace else. It’s a funny place.<p>So the loses are not real until they are realized. That being said I don’t think the city is headed in a positive direction anytime in the next 5 years.
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varenc将近 2 年前
This is great news for the housing affordability crisis. Sure we should build more housing and that helps an incremental amount, but reducing home value across the board is a much bigger lever. Of course there’s many interests that understandably want to keep home values up so we only focus on the supply side of the problem.
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foota将近 2 年前
I&#x27;ve thought often about the economic power of a large number of well compensated people, but this is staggering &quot;Between 2019 and 2021, San Francisco lost nearly $15 billion of household income, even after accounting for those who moved into the city.&quot;
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teaearlgraycold将近 2 年前
Good news for home buyers!
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jmspring将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m pretty sure in the last year plus with interest rate increases, the value of &quot;for sale&quot; real estate across the &quot;bay area&quot; from napa&#x2F;sonoma down to monterey county, maybe lost value in the billions, but $260bil? no.<p>Look at sales, yes, they have slowed, but demand is still incredibly high. My primary residence is in a rural county north of Truckee&#x2F;Tahoe - housing prices in the last 7 years have doubled or more (wide area, wide variation), truckee&#x2F;tahoe way worse.<p>I don&#x27;t see the argument even if you extend it beyond the city. Santa Cruz - houses picked up for $1m or more turned into student ghettos pulling in $5-7k&#x2F;mo in rent. (my other neighborhood).<p>260b is a load of bs.
snotrockets将近 2 年前
The expectation that homes won&#x27;t deprecate like most assets do is an anomaly.
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jmspring将近 2 年前
there is an obsession with the &quot;pooper scooper team&quot; which is a small part of the article. There is also a general issue on HN which comes from certain demographics crawling all over themselves to show they are superior to SF&#x27;s civic and cultural issues because their own slumdog country they shit all over in private posts.<p>San Francisco has issues, the main one being it has become too popular with a certain set of TC chasers and chasing out any cultural doversity (sorry desi&#x2F;indian culture isn&#x27;t one of those). We&#x27;ve lost blues venues, drag venues many others because of the BS TC uber alles from a certain segment of the tech crowd prior to covid. That same group is panties in a bunch to return to office because of whatever. You have one or the other, not both.<p>And, this will get me down voted, but fuck the indian community TC chasers (biggest part of the comnunity, but there are others) for ruining the bay area. I hear it from friend from SF to Morgan Hill.<p>The guys I worked with 20 years ago were different. It was about building things and helping others, not stomping on people to make your next move.
anthlax将近 2 年前
I’ll be moving to SF in the next month. Anecdotally rents are still hovering at ~3.3k in the mission to ~4k in e.g polk gulch.<p>1b1b, 750sqft
browningstreet将近 2 年前
“Washoe County, Nevada, site of Lake Tahoe, another ski resort, brought in 333 San Franciscans, with an average AGI of well over $300,000.”<p>Lake Tahoe, the ski resort. Ahem.
camel_gopher将近 2 年前
So that’s why they are still going for over asking
dmingod666将近 2 年前
housing as an asset&#x2F;investment who&#x27;s value needs to keeps rising is a big contributer to homelessness. If Dense affordable housing isn&#x27;t created because of the vested interests of the home owners worried about their properties losing value then they are partly to blame..
fnord77将近 2 年前
bought my condo in 2018. in the wrong part of town<p>redfin says I&#x27;m down 30% at least<p>debating whether to cut my losses - with tech companies gone, mass transit on the brink, and the city in a tailspin, I have this nightmare scenario in my head where prices end up 1&#x2F;10th of what I paid
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n_eutrino将近 2 年前
compared with Seoul and Hangzhou, this 16.7% seems such a mild decline.
karmasimida将近 2 年前
They collected so much tax, where did they use it for?
bottlepalm将近 2 年前
The government can only keep interest rates artificially high for so long. Once they go down again, housing prices are going to explode.<p>There&#x27;s no way to reverse printing 13 trillion dollars in corona stimulus.. the damage has been done.
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