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Barred from Grocery Stores by Facial Recognition

56 点作者 ddlatham将近 2 年前

11 条评论

AbrahamParangi将近 2 年前
Something that I think many people really underestimate is how much crime is done by how few people. It’s <i>incredibly</i> concentrated. We may have this image of a normal person perhaps down on their luck and tempted by circumstances and while this is true of most <i>criminals</i>, it is not true of <i>the perpetrators of most crimes</i>.<p>For example, according to this article in the NYT (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;04&#x2F;15&#x2F;nyregion&#x2F;shoplifting-arrests-nyc.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;04&#x2F;15&#x2F;nyregion&#x2F;shoplifting-arre...</a>) the top 327 shoplifters in NYC last year were arrested more than 6000 times.<p>The same is true of violent crimes. Most people who commit a violent crime are not actually that likely to do it again. Those who do are extremely likely to do it a third time.<p>Arguably, enforcement should be substantially more lenient for most people and substantially more aggressive for very few.
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AdamJacobMuller将近 2 年前
This is conflicting, on one hand it&#x27;s certainty within the right of a store to bar people who shoplift, it&#x27;s really an imperative to do so. The petty crime issue the retailers here are trying to counter is a real one.<p>But this application it feels like falling down an increasingly slippery slope.<p>Sure, today, it&#x27;s just &quot;send an alert and the store can do what it wants&quot; but how long until that transforms into a de facto ban from the premise? Scan the person on the way in and flash their picture and name up on a TV and tell them they are trespassed from the store and if they don&#x27;t leave within 60 seconds the police will be called. You can even automate that!<p>Sure, today, it&#x27;s just &quot;share with nearby stores&quot; but how long until the database starts to be centralized and extends across whole states, countries or even worldwide? An argument could be made that people who are farther away from home are more likely to commit petty crimes since they have less worry about repetitional damage or harming their own community, so, obviously we need to share this data nationwide or even globally!<p>This facewatch company is going to have an imperative to add people to it&#x27;s database and obviously sell subscriptions to access their data centrally, they aren&#x27;t going to have any imperative to fairly adjudicate removals or false positives.<p>I can easily see a system like this ending up like credit rating bureaus with a few large companies aggregating data into a score which stores can use to deny entry.<p>Even if you ignore data errors of any kind and ignore false positives entirely, the concept of a relatively minor indiscretion resulting in a permanent, global, ban from any store using this technology is positively dystopian. It deeply reminds me of two of the better episodes of Black Mirror, White Christmas (the end -- you know what part I mean) and Nosedive.<p>The fact is though, there is a legitimate need for some kind of change to solve the retail theft problem and I don&#x27;t think this type of technology is going away.<p>I&#x27;m generally not to argue in favor of regulation, but, this seems like this technology is going to require regulation around disputes as well some kind of regulated civil penalty list (shoplift less than $100 of merchandise on your fist offence and you&#x27;re banned for at most 1 month). The real problem is that we (the US) have done a terribly poor job with regular credit scores and I can not imagine us doing a better job with this.
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toolz将近 2 年前
Society is going to have a hard learned lesson on how badly false positives with punishment systems destroys community trust. It doesn&#x27;t take but a few unjustly punished folks exacting revenge on the systems that hurt them to quickly polarize and disrupt communities.
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chomp将近 2 年前
Mixed feelings here. First, the false positive issue. Second, the network effect, being locked out of buying anything to eat if you shoplift. Third, the potential to track my movement to local stores that use the service, even if I am a non-criminal.<p>On the other side, shoplifting is becoming lawless and stores are at their wits&#x27; end. What are they supposed to do to combat shoplifting? The law certainly isn&#x27;t deterring shoplifting.
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aurizon将近 2 年前
If a shop catches a thief with a box he took outside the store after they chase him down, they offer him a choice, we will either prosecute you and get you jailed&#x2F;fined - or you can promise never to come here again and to be sure, we will take your photo and use our scanner to detect you, and will tell all the local shops as well. Offered that choice, few would take the police route - this may be their tenth arrest = pick the scanner and walk away
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josephcsible将近 2 年前
I wish we could get rid of this system by getting rid of the demand for it. Stores wouldn&#x27;t need things like this if career shoplifters got sent to prison.
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AdamJacobMuller将近 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;pYB3G" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;pYB3G</a>
Simulacra将近 2 年前
This is needed, urgently, but I worry about its long term implications. From the article, I think this sums up the general opinion: &quot;economic hardship made him sympathetic, but that the number of thefts had gotten so out of hand that facial recognition was needed.&quot;<p>When politicians refuse to act, or worse reduce safety and penalties, communities lose out and stores close.
smk16将近 2 年前
Read here. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forumx.azurewebsites.net&#x2F;f&#x2F;the-new-york-times&#x2F;20&#x2F;barred-from-grocery-stores-by-facial-recognition" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forumx.azurewebsites.net&#x2F;f&#x2F;the-new-york-times&#x2F;20&#x2F;bar...</a><p>No account needed.
freitzkriesler2将近 2 年前
Can someone link to a non paywall version? Edit <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;pYB3G" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;pYB3G</a><p>Funny, I&#x27;ve been to Gordon&#x27;s in central London and am familiar with the team who made the security system there. Curious that it morphed into a facial recognition software tool.<p>Couldn&#x27;t someone just put on a mask a la COVID and have a field day to defeat facial recognition?
yieldcrv将近 2 年前
hmm<p>on one hand: shoplifters aren’t shoplifting all the time<p>on the other hand: there are many alternative ways for people to get food now, and I’m fine if a prior infraction raises their costs - such as needing to go to a farmers market, or needing to use a grocery delivery app so a surrogate purchases for them<p>I would be against this if it meant <i>no</i> way to get groceries<p>there does need to be an appeals process or way to be removed from the list
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