How Three Germans Are Cloning the Web

Yes, they're copycats.<p>But those of us who live in Europe sometimes get absolutely <i>infuriated</i> by US-based startups who go for years ignoring potential non-US customers. I'm sure Fab.com would have eventually rolled out to Europe, but in the meantime I'm happy that someone else built a product that solves the same problem.<p>Sometimes this is a real regulatory problem, like anything to do with banking/payments/etc. But oftentimes it's just because businesses don't seem to like taking on the extra work/complexity of thinking internationally.<p>So while I don't like their pure copycat methods (down to page layouts), I think they're serving a valuable purpose in the marketplace.

I think there is a lot to learn from companies that operate in multiple languages- I used to work for one myself (until they, too, got a little copy-happy). Internationalisation is a huge market, and almost all US startups ignore it entirely. We had our original sites running in French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Hungarian, Russian... you name it. We weren't number one in any country- we were usually number 2 or 3. But none of our competitors operated outside their home country, so we managed to be very successful by occupying a lesser spot in multiple countries. Don't get me wrong, there is a large overhead in doing this- but there's plenty of opportunity, too.

<i>“There are pioneering entrepreneurs and execution entrepreneurs, and maybe we belong more to the execution entrepreneurs,” says Oliver, who speaks at a rapid clip, frequently punctuating thoughts with a rhetorical “ja?”<p>“I think the most admirable entrepreneurs are those with original ideas, ja? It’s a unique gift that you either have or you don’t. Just as we might have a very good gift of execution, others have a unique gift for the purest form of innovation.”</i><p>The constant mantra of HN is "ideas are useless, execution is everything". So why the hate against these guys?

I have a few German friends, I understand them to be quite risk averse. However, what Samwers have accomplished in Germany is something far far more important and bigger than a clone industry - it is the spirit of taking risks, a willingness to aspire to be something other than traditional careers and a strong stance/philosophy on a type of entrepreneurship (clones) - stances such as these almost always lead to an ideological opposition and make way for others to engage in similar realms with differing philosophies. You can see that in Project A ventures, which is a reaction to Samwer's philosophy, and that reaction is good for Germany's start-up culture.

It's funny how Fab complains so much about having their business model cloned when Fab itself is just one in a long line of flash sales businesses with a landing page style that is so common you can get it as a SaaS.

I think this says a lot about the English-language focus of a lot of startups. Failure to cater, through language options, to individual countries will result in a demand for services that do and the Samwer brothers are meeting this demand.<p>Is the price that companies such as GroupOn pay equivalent to the cost of localising their own offering? Maybe so and it may be a good deal.

"There are pioneering entrepreneurs and execution entrepreneurs, and maybe we belong more to the execution entrepreneurs."<p>What doublespeak. Startups are 99% execution. All successful startup founders are "execution entrepreneurs." All that really distinguishes the Samwers is that they copy existing ideas, and there are already names for people who do that.

I had completely missed that the Samwer brothers were in the web copying business. Last time I heard of them, they were busy selling teenagers ringtone subscriptions ("Jamba").

Being German myself I think the Samwers are an embarrassment. Unscrupulous copycats like them should be outlawed by the German startup scene.

Ripping off the design is not cool. But otherwise, well it is like being the guy who opens the second restaurant, the first one might get annoyed but in a few years there will be thousands. Sounds like great execution too.

Copying ideas and execution just happens. Look at other industries - there's a Chipotle clone, frozen yogurt clones, etc. And many luxury sedans seem to be about 90% the same design, at least on the outside.<p>The reason the Samwer story is so weird is a) there's so much damn money in their game (Groupon, Facebook, etc.) and b) they're generally regarded to be ruthless, cut-throat, slave-drivers.<p>I know I'd feel differently about the phenomenon if they seemed less like idea-pirates and more like contributors to innovation.

single page link: <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/10778-how-three-germans-are-cloning-the-web" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/10778-how-three...</a>

Most of the discussion seems to be about whether or not it's "bad" that the Samwers are "copycats." I was more struck by the culture at Rocket, which sounds quite nasty judging by the article. (“team meetings are full of insults, non-performers openly bashed in meetings as well as via e-mail.”) At least one top Rocket employee is cited as leaving due to the "climate of aggression" (the bad, inwardly directed, self-destructive kind).<p>Don't we at HN usually say that it's the people that are most important? If culture is destiny, then the Samwers' copying of website layouts is the least of what's wrong here.

This reminds me of what you so see many small Chinese and Asian firms do with hardware and other physical goods in their local markets.

The communist regimes of 50 years ago were more than happy to protect our (American) ideas from foreigners. I suppose that in fighting so hard to undue this, we thought they would buy our products but not clone them.

If you are not willing to meet demand, someone else will be.

In some of the earlier episodes of Stack Exchange Podcast Jeff and Joel were debating whether to localize.<p>Just to put some of this into perspective.

The same thing happens in Japan too .. <a href="http://camp-fire.jp/" rel="nofollow">http://camp-fire.jp/</a>

Perhaps if you don't have the capability to deal with a territory, try and find locals who do and franchise to them before you get copied there.