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Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]

283 点作者 Trouble_007将近 2 年前

26 条评论

wunderland将近 2 年前
A perfect example with the recent changes at Twitter:<p>&gt; Most Twitter users barely tweet and don&#x27;t care about followers - a &quot;heavy user&quot; tweets on average less than three times a week. So if someone is posting regularly enough to be willing to pay $8 a month for a blue tick, but has not built up a sizeable following organically, this is a very strong signal that the posts they are producing are no good.<p>&gt; It is exactly that content that Twitter&#x27;s new model relies on promoting - and those newly-minted blue ticks are quickly learning that there is no magic behind the checkmarks. New followers are not magically heading their way. The problem wasn&#x27;t a biased liberal algorithm, it was that their tweets are no good.<p>&gt; That means lots of blue ticks stop paying - but everyone else is forced to read the low-quality content that the remaining blue ticks produce. This is what is powering the enshittification of Twitter.<p>(From: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theneweuropean.co.uk&#x2F;the-slow-sad-death-of-twitter&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theneweuropean.co.uk&#x2F;the-slow-sad-death-of-twitt...</a>)
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DrScientist将近 2 年前
Isn&#x27;t this just a function of a lot of these business models don&#x27;t actually work?<p>Ie a lot of these are the equivalent of giving away free ( investor funded ) banana fritters, getting decent uptake and using it to declare that the market in banana fritters is huge, but when you start to charge for them it turns our the market is quite small.<p>Another way the business models don&#x27;t work is the companies start off assuming no costs around policing - like a shop with no security whatsoever. Works fine for a while, but as it grows and people realise it&#x27;s got no security they start to get targeted, and costs go up.
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_eypq将近 2 年前
I&#x27;ve been thinking about how enshittification, venture capital, shareholders and the life cycle of a company are in some ways related. Any company that has external investors is bound to go through this cycle of - building a great product - taking in external funding money - growing and then either being acquired or going public (or more commonly shutting down) - then all the head scratching decision making starts<p>It&#x27;s head scratching to users and outside observers, but the incentives are such that there is pressure to grow on a quarterly basis, get those charts looking good and individuals in the management chain are doing what they can to optimize their career growth leading to short term decision making at the cost of users and customers.<p>The big picture thinking and long term decision making are incredibly hard. Very few companies are able to do this over the long term. Micosoft and apple are doing great currently and it will be interesting to see how stripe and openai navigate this process.<p>My current opinion is that only small founder owned companies or foss organizations can avoid this trap over the long term and it involves not trying to squeeze out every last bit of value. Both of these require a certain level of financial security + there&#x27;s the opportunity cost vs just going the vc route.<p>VC funding is incredibly valuable and it opens up a lot of possibilities that small orgs can never hope for. I guess what I&#x27;m saying is: expect enshittification and enjoy the ride while it lasts and then jump ship when trouble starts. Jumping ship becomes incredibly hard with network effects, so that&#x27;s the challenge we are seeing with social media companies now. Also once companies become too big to fail, it&#x27;s a drag on society.<p>Personally I would still go the VC route since I don&#x27;t have a few million lying around and tell myself this is just the cycle of life (for corporates) to avoid existential questions and going down the rabbit hole of questioning everything around me. Sorry about the disconnected thoughts.
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Trouble_007将近 2 年前
Users, Advertisers – We are all trapped in the ‘Enshittification’ of the Internet (2023-03-11): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;commentisfree&#x2F;2023&#x2F;mar&#x2F;11&#x2F;users-advertisers-we-are-all-trapped-in-the-enshittification-of-the-internet" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;commentisfree&#x2F;2023&#x2F;mar&#x2F;11&#x2F;users-...</a><p>&quot;Enshittification&quot; - Wiktionary : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wiktionary.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;enshittification" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wiktionary.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;enshittification</a><p>Cory Doctorow - Enshittification : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cory_Doctorow#Enshittification" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cory_Doctorow#Enshittification</a><p><i>I downloaded the podcast from here</i> (mp3) : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mediacore-live-production.akamaized.net&#x2F;audio&#x2F;01&#x2F;jo&#x2F;Z&#x2F;8a.mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mediacore-live-production.akamaized.net&#x2F;audio&#x2F;01&#x2F;jo&#x2F;...</a>
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javajosh将近 2 年前
Enshittification is a (very good) name for when you start off with naturally non-scarce information resource, and later impose artificial scarcity on it in order to make the moneys. It&#x27;s like building a theme park, and only later adding walls and a turnstyle that checks for tickets. <i>Of course</i> people are going to hate you for doing that.
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amatecha将近 2 年前
Funny timing, as I just described Duolingo&#x27;s recent trajectory as being an example of &quot;enshittification&quot; to someone who was angry that they have to do even more &quot;quests&quot; this month than any previous one, to earn the monthly badge (merely a fun thing on your profile to look back on). Gotta drive that engagement and keep users in-app as long as possible...
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yarg将近 2 年前
The need to have a for profit platform leads to perverse incentives.<p>This seems to be universally true, and when it becomes apparent that advertising doesn&#x27;t work and isn&#x27;t profitable, dark patterns are the best that you can hope for.<p>Short of a company having the internal need for a generally useful distributed communications platform, as well as a willingness to release it relatively freely, I struggle to see how this gets resolved.
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ggm将近 2 年前
I compare this mentally to:<p>* autotesting music for &#x27;hit worthy&#x27; == music blandifies to the bangers and you never get interesting voices any more. but .. it works (for profit)<p>* kindle genres like &#x27;in the style of&#x27; and the tendency to more and more but worse and worse in fiction because.. it works (for profit)<p>* politics descending to the lowest grab, not the highest goal.
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ftxbro将近 2 年前
There is a possibly more general phenomenon where a brand gets good reputation and then begins cutting cost and people will still buy at the high price. I don&#x27;t know if that one has a name or if it&#x27;s the same concept as enshittification.
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andyjohnson0将近 2 年前
I wonder what the people at the top of large corps (Pichai, Zuckerberg, Musk et al) think of this perspective and how its increasingly dominating the narrative about what they do. Are they mystified or perplexed by it? Worried? Or do they just think: <i>hey, you figured it out in the end</i>?
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resuresu将近 2 年前
The internet is so lame and boring now days, its become so predictable and routine. I remember the internet back in the 90s and 00s, it was a completely different place, it felt massive and mysterious like each door you opened led to a another universe with all kinds of stuff going on, discussions on any topic you could fathom were taking place 24&#x2F;7 all the time. Now we have discord servers with hundreds of users but no one speaks.. the cool myspace culture that promoted individualism and self expression has been replaced by the souless uniformed facebook experience. Rather than being able to speak your mind you have to walk on egg shells everywhere you go now as to not upset the corporations or status quo mentality.<p>The internet was the mysterious wild west, Now its just a boring corporate meeting room.
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brezelgoring将近 2 年前
I espouse a belief that apps have two cycles, one of growth, another of exploitation.<p>In the first, cash is burnt&#x2F;used to give free goodies and provide good quality services. Rents are a byproduct and not a goal during this phase of the operation, the goal here is to build goodwill and market share through measures that the competition can&#x27;t match. All in all, it is a good experience to use the service during this stage.<p>The second stage of the operation is all about rent-seeking. Portions get smaller, ads are deployed in full force, all of the bridges in and out are lifted so value can stay inside the ecosystem. Prices in general go up and it is time to cash out all of that goodwill and market share for money. Owners and founders generally sell during or before this stage, as the business will lose consumer confidence and competitors will gnaw at its heels until it becomes just another bad app&#x2F;store in a very saturated market.<p>I remember reading a multiwork series on The Office (US) and it used terms like &#x27;psychopaths&#x27; and &#x27;sucker&#x27; to describe how organizations grow and die when the &#x27;psychopaths&#x27; at the top decide to cash out, I&#x27;d point to their exit as the turning point in my text.<p>I can&#x27;t back up what I feel with books or research, just what I&#x27;ve seen by looking at the progression of big businesses in my country. Apps, burger boutiques, consulting firms, even the furniture builder guy that lives around the block, all of them went through this cycle.
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cschmidt将近 2 年前
Cory&#x27;s article about enshittification of TikTok, for those that don&#x27;t like audio<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pluralistic.net&#x2F;2023&#x2F;01&#x2F;21&#x2F;potemkin-ai&#x2F;#hey-guys" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pluralistic.net&#x2F;2023&#x2F;01&#x2F;21&#x2F;potemkin-ai&#x2F;#hey-guys</a>
OscarTheGrinch将近 2 年前
How much of enshitification can be explained by rampant managerialism?<p>Managers need to feel powerful, hire more managers.<p>Managers need to meet their performance targets or just want to carve their own little Mt Rushmore face in the product, wacky user hostile decisions ensue.
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fzeroracer将近 2 年前
The problem is, essentially, all of the wealth and power is concentrated inside of venture capitalists and rich stock holders. These are people who invest in a product without actually using or caring about the product, so it leads to perverse incentives to infinitely grow or corner a market at all costs.<p>Family owned businesses, employee owned businesses, privately owned businesses etc all manage to better avoid this problem because they don&#x27;t have to listen to outside voices telling them grow or die.<p>It&#x27;s not enough to be profitable and successful, but also you need to siphon as much value out of consumers as you can so you can pass along the money to these vultures. Then once the company has picked everything dry, they write it off as a failure and move on.
christophilus将近 2 年前
Aside: Someone recently complained about the use of the term &quot;enshittification&quot;. It first appeared on HN 6 months ago[0], coined by Cory Doctorow and has since shown up in over 400 comments.<p>No point to this comment, other than that I find it interesting how these things spread.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34449504">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34449504</a>
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ChrisArchitect将近 2 年前
When is this from? A few days ago (when it was already posted with a different url) or earlier in the year Februaryish when Doctorow wrote his stuff on enshittification of TikTok etc? Is this actually new?
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smoldesu将近 2 年前
I felt like I wasn&#x27;t going to write this comment again, but here we go:<p>I don&#x27;t like the word enshittification. People glom onto it because they like shaking sticks more than solving problems, and Corey Doctorow is excellent at exploiting that desire. It&#x27;s annoying how he enables that sense of defeatism when he&#x27;s obviously aware of resilient and game-changing alternative software (like FOSS) that has revolutionized the world in his lifetime. Putting pearls before swine makes for nice fiction, but it&#x27;s a bad tool for explaining real life phenomena like this.<p>&quot;Enshittification&quot; is a very fun and usable thesis. It also obfuscates the problem and fetishizes it&#x27;s own victimhood instead of enabling users to resist lock-in.
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nologic01将近 2 年前
The question is: can &#x2F; will something be done about anytime soon. The age of innocence is long gone. The textbook on surveillance capitalism has been written. The importance of sane digital interactions and its role in helping solve <i>other</i> more stuborn problems is also obvious.
sturadnidge将近 2 年前
Any chance we could get the link pointed to the source[1] rather than this podcast aggregator?<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.net.au&#x2F;radionational&#x2F;programs&#x2F;futuretense&#x2F;cory-doctorow-enshittification-platform-capitalism&#x2F;102492918" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.net.au&#x2F;radionational&#x2F;programs&#x2F;futuretense&#x2F;co...</a>
jononomo将近 2 年前
Airline travel has certainly become a lot shittier since I first began flying in the 1970s. In fact, it used to be comfortable, cool, fun, and glamorous, and the stewardesses used to be beautiful and polite.
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karmakaze将近 2 年前
I like the term as it&#x27;s very specific and relatable, especially when applied to two-sided markets facilitated on a centralized platform.<p>None of this should come as a surprise though and we can merely see it as one mode of capitalism working as intended. The problem wouldn&#x27;t be nearly as bad if the companies were family owned rather than by venture capitalists and investors.
RandomLensman将近 2 年前
Institutional isomorphisms (to use a more technical term) are far older than current platform capitalism and are often a reaction to uncertainty. I&#x27;d see the current phenomena as a natural extension of the original concept.<p>Classic literature: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jstor.org&#x2F;stable&#x2F;2095101" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jstor.org&#x2F;stable&#x2F;2095101</a>
FrustratedMonky将近 2 年前
Really, isn&#x27;t this just all corporations? Walmart has long &quot;Enshittification&quot; of small towns.<p>It is Moloch again, driving to lowest common denominator, what is the worst thing we can do (cheapest), that people will still buy.<p>Twitter was never a bastion of democratic free speech, and was never going to be, they were always a corporation selling advertising.<p>For a brief time when Trump was on twitter, a lot of people got riled up and though it was supposed to be a free &#x27;town square&#x27; of discourse. But, it&#x27;s just advertising and eye-balls. I think Musk got caught up in this &#x27;free speech and democracy&#x27; hype and thought Twitter was more than it was.
sharas-将近 2 年前
Platform capitalism: this was uploaded on &quot;podtail.com&quot; platform Enshittification: Can you scroll this shit through to skip ads?
fsckboy将近 2 年前
the YCombinator powers-that-be preach that a positive outlook is a key asset to propel you and your projects forward.<p>The word &quot;enshittification&quot; seems to be a Maxwell&#x27;s Daemon designed to concentrate all the stray negative thoughts into (this) one huge snipe session.
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