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Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf]

154 点作者 agnosticmantis将近 2 年前

35 条评论

ncallaway将近 2 年前
Maybe the facts will bear out that there’s a case here, but my default position is one of skepticism.<p>I guess one takeaway for me is if you don’t want your competitor to hire a bunch of your former employees, don’t make a bunch of your employees former employees.
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denotational将近 2 年前
&gt; Twitter knows that these employees previously worked at Twitter; that these employees had and continue to have access to Twitter’s trade secrets [...]<p>This sentence is clearly trying to establish liability by accusing Meta of <i>wilful</i> infringement of Twitter’s rights (i.e. it acted in full knowledge of these fact, even though they may lead to violation of the employees’ restrictive covenants, etc.), as evidenced by the context and indeed the rest of the letter.<p>As such, the first instance of “Twitter” is surely a mistake; shouldn’t it say “Meta”? This would make sense given the next sentence (“With that knowledge, Meta [...]”).<p>As this is supposedly from such a large law firm, I’m amazed a mistake like this could slip through; it completely changes the meaning of the entire sentence, even if the intent is recoverable from context.<p>Does no one proofread Letters before Action? Am I misreading it? Is this fake?
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chasing将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m curious what exactly X is claiming Meta stole? The interface and interaction model is basically just social media best practices that have been evolved by numerous people and companies over the past 20-30 years. Seemingly nothing so complex that it needs to be stolen from another company. Barely any art assets. Dirt-simple interfaces.<p>Under-the-hood, I assume Meta was able to launch this quickly because it&#x27;s largely built on existing tech.<p>Anyway, sounds petty and short-sighted. So. Totally on-brand!
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blitzar将近 2 年前
&gt; accused Meta of hiring dozens of former Twitter employees<p>I loathe Meta as much, if not more, than the next person.<p>However, if upon the events at twitter a little over 6 months ago, they decided then to build a competitor and the result of that decision is Threads ... I have to congratulate them on a job well done.<p>If they did what Twitter is claiming, then I applaud them even more.
odyssey7将近 2 年前
Great news for tech workers imo.<p>Part of the tech labor market downturn has been driven by skepticism over the costs: if Twitter can slash its workforce and keep running just fine, why can’t other companies?<p>Well, Threads swooping in to rapidly drain Twitter’s market share might change that reasoning.
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TechBro8615将近 2 年前
This is not a move that a company makes from a position of strength. I like Musk and frequently defend his decisions, and there&#x27;s no love lost between me and Meta. But Musks&#x27;s trigger happy litigiousness is pathetic. His obsession with scrapers scraping public content is extremely cringe and betrays his fundamental misalignment with the open web. The fact that Zuck is planning to make Threads compatible with ActivityPub (presumably) is hilarious, especially considering that Musk originally promised to &quot;turn the platform into “something new that’s decentralized.”&quot; [0]).<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;twitter-had-a-plan-to-fix-social-media-bluesky-will-elon-musk-follow-it&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;twitter-had-a-plan-to-fix-social...</a>
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justapassenger将近 2 年前
It&#x27;s decades old tactic from Musk. One of the things he&#x27;s really great at is SEO. He is trying to shift narrative from Threads hyper growth to whatever random lawsuit he&#x27;s threatening them with.
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whateverman23将近 2 年前
It&#x27;s clearly a text-forward port of Instagram. Using any Twitter &quot;trade secrets&quot; would probably be counterproductive. So unless Twitter is claiming that Instagram stole trade secrets (ha), this seems like desperate litigating.
quitit将近 2 年前
While this works through the courts - it is kind of amusing to think that Elon is suggesting that Meta somehow needed Twitter&#x27;s IP to build Threads.<p>Here are some monthly active user stats for social media&#x2F;chat networks(1):<p>1. Facebook ~3B<p>...<p>3. WhatsApp ~2B<p>4. Instagram ~2B<p>...<p>7. Facebook Messenger ~0.93B<p>...<p>14. Twitter ~0.56B<p>I&#x27;m no fan of Meta, but it&#x27;s plain to see that Meta have no problem or lack of talent with regards to scale.<p>(1) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.statista.com&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;272014&#x2F;global-social-networks-ranked-by-number-of-users&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.statista.com&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;272014&#x2F;global-social-net...</a>
dmode将近 2 年前
I thought Musk had said that there is nothing worth stealing from Twitter because it’s codebase was so bad<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;tech&#x2F;twitter-down-elon-musk-explained-rewrite-b2296116.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;tech&#x2F;twitter-down-elon-musk-ex...</a>
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agnosticmantis将近 2 年前
See also: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.semafor.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;07&#x2F;06&#x2F;2023&#x2F;twitter-is-threatening-to-sue-meta-over-threads" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.semafor.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;07&#x2F;06&#x2F;2023&#x2F;twitter-is-threat...</a>
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SamoyedFurFluff将近 2 年前
If you didn’t want your laid off engineers to work for other tech companies, pay them the garden leave or something.
dingosity将近 2 年前
So... if you work for Twitter and then go work somewhere else, Twitter will sue your new employer? That&#x27;s a stellar recruiting strategy.
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theptip将近 2 年前
If you can’t innovate, litigate.
jug将近 2 年前
I doubt this hold water, part because commentary that Mera doesn’t even have any ex-Twitter employees on this project, but especially because it’s a reactive lawsuit following the launch and the news it has been a big success.<p>If Twitter knew what Meta was doing, surely they could have shut this down right away?
yalogin将近 2 年前
Whose responsibility is it to prove these claims? Do our courts put the burden on the accuser or the accused to prove these? I hope Twitter has to spend the money upfront and come up with proof rather than just filing a frivolous lawsuit and making the other party spend.
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yakshaving_jgt将近 2 年前
Allowing users to publish some words on a website is one hell of a trade secret.
lsllc将近 2 年前
Sounds like this is just the 2020&#x27;s version of SCO vs Novell [0] or Apple vs Microsoft [1] (ad infinitum).<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;SCO_Group,_Inc._v._Novell,_Inc" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;SCO_Group,_Inc._v._Novell,_Inc</a>.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros...</a>.
globalise83将近 2 年前
Just put the two in a cage and let&#x27;s see who the worthiest contender really is...
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echelon将近 2 年前
Oh good grief. This is fair game, Mr. Musk.<p>Scaling aside, Twitter is as simple an application as you could imagine.
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chupchap将近 2 年前
Instagram has a much higher MAU so meta can argue they know how to make and retain audience. Twitter will have to prove actual secrets were stolen and that&#x27;s going to be a tough sell I feel
paul7986将近 2 年前
Musk is such an idiot ... i was excited for him to buy Twitter and hopefully provide more of a balance of opinions but its all about him. He&#x27;s like Trump .. a narcissitic ego maniac and suing FB for launching a Twitter competitor is more proof that he&#x27;s just like Trump ... a whiney ego maniac sue happy multi-billionaire.
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toomuchtodo将近 2 年前
Dupe: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36620536">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36620536</a>
thefz将近 2 年前
Great, now let&#x27;s drive Twitter&#x27;s value to zero so the world&#x27;s biggest impostor will be defaced. Or not, considering his ego.
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moomin将近 2 年前
Whether or not Threads is a success, the fact remains that it wouldn’t exist if Musk hadn’t strongly signalled he was ceding Twitter’s market position.<p>That’s the kind of unforced error you can’t sue your way out of.
seizethecheese将近 2 年前
Off-topic, but is it just me or is “very truly yours” a strange signature prefix for this kind of email? I’d expect that only in cases of intimacy.
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ChrisArchitect将近 2 年前
[dupe]<p>Discussion over here from earlier:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36620536">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36620536</a>
perlgeek将近 2 年前
Big accusations, little evidence presented so far.
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dopa42365将近 2 年前
Isn&#x27;t Threads just Instagram with optional text posts? Same old proprietary obfuscated mess, locked garden, meh, no thanks.
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johnea将近 2 年前
Do HN readers really care about this drivel?<p>Maybe Elon and The Zuck can settle it in a cage match?<p>That&#x27;ll make HN top 10 for sure...
dingosity将近 2 年前
I think Mr. Musk should lay off the cannabis for a day or two.
ChatGTP将近 2 年前
There is only one way to settle this:Cage match.
guluarte将近 2 年前
what exactly they stole? threads is basically a stripped-down version of fb&#x2F;ig feeds
padraic7a将近 2 年前
Perhaps they could settle it in a cage match, in a submarine?
shagie将近 2 年前
The following is a copy and paste of OCR of the pdf. There may be some transcription&#x2F;OCR errors in the following text.<p>---<p>Dear Mr. Zuckerberg:<p>I write on behalf of X Corp., as successor in interest to Twitter, Inc. (&quot;Twitter&quot;). Based on recent reports regarding your recently launched &quot;Threads&quot; app, Twitter has serious concerns that Meta Platforms (&quot;Meta&quot;) has engaged in systematic, willful, and unlawful misappropriation of Twitter&#x27;s trade secrets and other intellectual property.<p>Over the past year, Meta has hired dozens of former Twitter employees. Twitter knows that these employees previously worked at Twitter; that these employees had and continue to have access to Twitter&#x27;s trade secrets and other highly confidential information; that these employees owe ongoing obligations to Twitter; and that many of these employees have improperly retained Twitter documents and electronic devices. With that knowledge, Meta deliberately assigned these employees to develop, in a matter of months, Meta&#x27;s copycat &quot;Threads&quot; app with the specific intent that they use Twitter&#x27;s trade secrets and other intellectual property in order to accelerate the development of Meta&#x27;s competing app, in violation of both state and federal law as well as those employees&#x27; ongoing obligations to Twitter.<p>Twitter intends to strictly enforce its intellectual property rights, and demands that Meta take immediate steps to stop using any Twitter trade secrets or other highly confidential information. Twitter reserves all rights, including, but not limited to, the right to seek both civil remedies and injunctive relief without further notice to prevent any further retention, disclosure, or use of its intellectual property by Meta.<p>Further, Meta is expressly prohibited from engaging in any crawling or scraping of Twitter&#x27;s followers or following data. As set forth in Twitter&#x27;s Terms of Service, crawling any Twitter services - including, but not limited to, any Twitter websites, SMS, APIs, email notifications, applications, buttons, widgets, ads, and commerce services - is permissible only &quot;if done in accordance with the provisions of the robots.txt file&quot; available at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;robots.txt" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;robots.txt</a>. The robots.txt file specifically disallows crawling of Twitter&#x27;s followers or following data. Scraping any Twitter services is expressly prohibited for any reason without Twitter&#x27;s prior consent. Twitter reserves all rights, including, but not limited to, the right to seck both civil remedies or injunctive relief without further notice.<p>Please consider this letter a formal notice that Meta must preserve any documents that could be relevant to a dispute between Twitter. Meta, and&#x2F;or former Twitter employees who now work for Meta. That includes, but is not limited to, all documents related to the recruitment, hiring, and onboarding of these former Twitter employees, the development of Meta&#x27;s competing Threads app, and any communications between these former Twitter employees and any agent, representative, or employee or Meta.<p>Very truly yours,<p>(s)<p>Alex Spiro