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IRS moves forward with a new free-file tax return system

462 点作者 DocFeind将近 2 年前

28 条评论

mydriasis将近 2 年前
&gt; Intuit spent at least $25.6 million since 2006 on lobbying, H&amp;R Block about $9.6 million and the conservative Americans for Tax Reform roughly $3 million.<p>&gt; In contrast, the NAACP has spent $140,000 lobbying on “free-file” since 2006 and Public Citizen has spent $110,000 in the same time frame.<p>With two orders of magnitude of lobbying dollars difference on either side, I&#x27;m surprised this is going anywhere.<p>&gt; “An IRS direct-to-e-file system is redundant and will not be free – not free to build, not free to operate, and not free for taxpayers,” Plummer (a spokesman for Intuit) said, adding that it “will unnecessarily cost taxpayers billions of dollars.”<p>Oh, like the system your company built and lobbies for? How do you say stuff like this out loud without your pants bursting into flames on the spot?
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tombert将近 2 年前
About a year ago, I got audited by the IRS. It was 100% my fault; I had sold a good chunk of stock in 2020 and but forgot to report the capital gains on my tax form (a tax form that was, evidently, automatically approved by the fed in about ten minutes!).<p>So last year I got a bill in the mail for $8,000; $7,000 for the actual taxes I owed, and a $1,000 fine. I was able to call and get the fine lowered (thanks to advice I received in HN actually!) and I wasn&#x27;t &quot;angry&quot; with anyone but myself. I <i>did</i> owe the money, I didn&#x27;t blame the IRS for wanting it.<p>But it did kind of make me wonder something: if the government was able to find out that I screwed up on my taxes, then why am <i>I</i> doing anything? Clearly they have all the data and information necessary to determine how much I actually owed, and clearly they were able to spot my mistake, so why make me pay $60 for TurboTax at all? Why not just send me a bill or refund every year?<p>This is a step in the right direction.
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enterthematrix将近 2 年前
Intuit is a bunch of vampires stealing money from Americans. Every developed country in the world has a relatively easy tax system for citizens, but only the US operates in this insane way where they willingly tax citizens by not providing them with an easy way to do taxes, and instead sends them to the wolves of Intuit and others.
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bozhark将近 2 年前
&gt; Republicans on the House Appropriations Committee in June proposed a budget rider that would prohibit funds to be used for the IRS to create a government-run tax preparation software, unless approved by a group of House and Senate committees.<p>The move “safeguards the IRS from an obvious conflict of interest where the tax collector becomes the tax preparer,” the bill’s summary states.<p>That’s a hard R in Republican
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nonethewiser将近 2 年前
Controversial take for all of you:<p>US taxes arent complicated because of tax software lobbiests. In fact they are already very simple if you actually value simplicity. But people dont - they value paying the least in taxes as possible (as they should).<p>You can dumbly supply a small amount of information and be in complete compliance with the law. Virtually all complexity comes from proving ways in which you don&#x27;t owe taxes and calculating how much. Thus, reducing complexity necessarily increases taxes for most cases. That means reducing complexity will always have lots of normal people rationally opposing it.<p>Tax complexity reductions need to be accompanied by tax cuts across the board.
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BurningFrog将近 2 年前
I don&#x27;t want a free tax filing system.<p>I want the IRS to give me form - paper or digital - with the data they already know from my employer, bank, etc already in.<p>I&#x27;d be happy to enter the other things myself.
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harshreality将近 2 年前
&gt; “An IRS direct-to-e-file system is redundant and will not be free – not free to build, not free to operate, and not free for taxpayers,” Plummer said, adding that it “will unnecessarily cost taxpayers billions of dollars.”<p>There&#x27;s no reason why this has to be true. It might be true, but only due to inefficiencies.<p>The IRS already has code to calculate and validate everything. That&#x27;s how they know if you make an error on your taxes or failed to report something. All they need to do is refactor it and turn it into an application. That&#x27;s not a trivial effort, but all the functional code has already been written by the IRS.<p>My impression is that most of the cost of development for Intuit and H&amp;R is keeping up to date with changes in the tax code (and possibly updating data import methods, since those are controlled by 3rd parties and may change). The IRS already has to do the same data checking and cross-checking and import. Therefore, keeping tax prep privatized is a massive duplication of effort.
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bigbillheck将近 2 年前
I&#x27;ve been using Free File Fillable Forms (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.freefilefillableforms.com" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.freefilefillableforms.com</a>) for several years now and look forward to whatever the IRS comes up with.
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toomuchtodo将近 2 年前
Between this and FedNow, US public goods are firing on all cylinders. You love to see it.
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ourmandave将近 2 年前
If you qualify, IRS will already figure your taxes for you.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irs.gov&#x2F;taxtopics&#x2F;tc552" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irs.gov&#x2F;taxtopics&#x2F;tc552</a><p>I wonder what happens if <i>they</i> make a mistake?
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lxe将近 2 年前
As much as I love not having to use paid filing software, I don&#x27;t expect the federal government to create something that isn&#x27;t incredibly frustrating to use that costs way too much to build
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kevinventullo将近 2 年前
Nowadays I outsource my tax prep to a professional, but I’d still be happy if this system can serve the folks with the easiest-to-file taxes. I don’t even care about the economic ROI, it just seems like a nice thing to have in a relatively wealthy country, like parks or libraries.
WaitWaitWha将近 2 年前
I have a solution that both sides will hate.<p>Reduce the complexity and size of the tax code to the point where an average taxpayer can complete it.
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em3rgent0rdr将近 2 年前
&quot;Free&quot; should mean free of complexity. The big cost of doing taxes is not in submitting the taxes, but rather is the enormous byzantine complexity of calculating how much you owe.
miki123211将近 2 年前
Why hasn&#x27;t a non-profit build this before?<p>If Intuit can build a system and charge for it, it should be entirely possible to build it as open source, software, and it&#x27;s the kind of think that some non-profits would probably go for.<p>THe IRS will have a slightly easier time building a system like this, as they can pre-fill some of the data that they already have, but it should still be possible to at least match Intuit here.<p>It feels like this is an area where competition would be a good thing. The IRS&#x27;s system might be good or it might be bad. If the job was done by NGOs, you could have multiple systems, all learning from each other&#x27;s successes and failures, and users would choose the one that is the most intuitive. Maybe a better idea would be to give taxpayer data to non-profits (after user authentication and consent, of course.)
londgine将近 2 年前
I hope this will work for expats. America doesn&#x27;t allow changing residency, and annulling citizenship costs upward of $1,000. Yet we have to pay taxes, and to avoid being double taxed in everything (but still double taxes in some) you have to use expensive tax software to file your taxes.
miki123211将近 2 年前
Don&#x27;t tax authorities have an incentive to minimize tax returns and maximize taxes paid? Just like in for-profit companies, there&#x27;s a temptation to employ dark patterns here.<p>These systems have been developed in other countries and I don&#x27;t think this problem exists, even though it intuitively should.
at_a_remove将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m interested, but cautious. I&#x27;d probably let some other folks find the bugs in the system. Yes, it costs me a little money. I&#x27;m just really avoidant of something like an audit and would rather do the tried-and-true until the new thing is up to snuff.
benguild将近 2 年前
Now that we have technology can’t taxes just be automatic when transactions happen?
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dang将近 2 年前
Related:<p><i>IRS tests free e-filing system that could compete with tax prep giants</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35950836">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35950836</a> - May 2023 (567 comments)<p><i>Call on the IRS to provide libre tax-filing software</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35705469">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35705469</a> - April 2023 (129 comments)<p><i>60M Americans have taxes so simple the IRS could do them automatically</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35476709">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35476709</a> - April 2023 (277 comments)<p><i>Lobbyists begin chipping away at Biden’s $80B IRS overhaul</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35381701">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35381701</a> - March 2023 (214 comments)<p><i>Intuit pouring money into lobbying amid push for free government-run tax filing</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34840039">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34840039</a> - Feb 2023 (178 comments)<p><i>IRS builds task force to explore running its own free e-file system</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34764952">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34764952</a> - Feb 2023 (199 comments)<p><i>IRS Free File: Do Your Taxes for Free</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34462122">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34462122</a> - Jan 2023 (247 comments)<p><i>IRS will look into setting up a free e-filing system</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32753099">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32753099</a> - Sept 2022 (408 comments)<p><i>The IRS could be on the verge of changing the way Americans file their taxes</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32550841">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32550841</a> - Aug 2022 (17 comments)<p><i>IRS will study free tax filing options</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32502321">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32502321</a> - Aug 2022 (25 comments)<p><i>TurboTax’s fight against free tax filing</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31072202">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31072202</a> - April 2022 (394 comments)<p><i>Filing taxes could be free &amp; simple. H&amp;R Block &amp; Intuit lobby against it (2017)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30856968">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30856968</a> - March 2022 (114 comments)<p><i>FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30846071">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30846071</a> - March 2022 (587 comments)<p><i>Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30409523">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30409523</a> - Feb 2022 (122 comments)<p><i>Why do Americans have to pay much to file their tax returns when the IRS knows?</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30267361">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30267361</a> - Feb 2022 (22 comments)<p><i>Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&amp;R Block and Intuit Lobby Against It (2017)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30185484">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30185484</a> - Feb 2022 (18 comments)<p><i>California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28944200">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28944200</a> - Oct 2021 (283 comments)<p><i>The IRS has a big opportunity to fix the way Americans file taxes</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28177289">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28177289</a> - Aug 2021 (12 comments)<p>... plus dozens more: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35970518">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35970518</a>
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NamTaf将近 2 年前
From a non-US perspective, hearing&#x2F;reading about how tax returns work there is some kind of crazy Byzantine nightmare.<p>In Aus, I file it through a free, online government portal.<p><i>Most</i> of my stuff is pre-filled: personal income, social support payments, bank interest, dividends&#x2F;managed fund distributions, etc. Previous years&#x27; deductions are rolled over with relevant data pre-filled, which then prompts me to fill in the blanks through a series of steps. There&#x27;s relevant depreciation calculators for various work-related purchases (laptops, cars, etc.) that all align with the tax office&#x27;s advice around depreciation durations and rates.<p>All of this is known because most (i.e. bigger) companies are required to hold your tax file number and report on salaries paid, pension contributions and withheld tax. If you don&#x27;t give them your TFN, they tax you at the highest rate and then you will get the difference back upon filing a return. If it&#x27;s not pre-filled, you get your data on a payment summary at the end of financial year and just put it in manually - again, it guides you through this. For a standard white collar worker, because my employer knows how much they&#x27;re paying me, they can accurately estimate the total income I&#x27;ll get over a year and thus accurately withhold tax. This means my tax return is generally pretty much a wash until deductions or extra income starts moving it, but that&#x27;s only a couple of percent usually.<p>For stuff like bank interest, you can choose to give them your TFN, or you can just enter it manually and the return process will calculate it out in the process.<p>You can of course delete and re-enter any of the pre-filled information if it&#x27;s somehow wrong. You&#x27;re not under any obligation to use the pre-filled data.<p>The upshot of this is that for the overwhelming majority of people who don&#x27;t have complicated tax arrangements, it&#x27;s entirely possible to do it all by yourself, for free. You are of course always able to have an accountant do it for you (the system has processes for them to file a return on your behalf). The underlying principle is that everyone can <i>in theory</i> do their own tax return no matter how complex, though of course that means reading up on a lot of the tax code (the tax office tries to provide relevant examples of how the various rules work). But if you&#x27;re a standard white collar employee working a 9-5 with some basic investments (e.g. your pension and a small stock portfolio, maybe an investment property if you want to throw in some non-prefilled complexity, and you&#x27;ve got some basic deductions such as through donations and work expenses) it&#x27;s going to be pretty easy to do with a few hours&#x27; research, max.<p>Hell, I think I could still even use the paper forms for this all, but <i>why</i>?<p>I suspect that US readers will, on average, baulk at this level of government oversight and the idea that big brother sees all of your income, etc. but the reality is it&#x27;s still possible to do cash-in-hand jobs and lie on your return so if you&#x27;re in for a penny re: committing tax fraud, you may as well be in for a pound. Besides, the main way of doing the dodgy on your tax return in Australia is via declaring deductions that you&#x27;re not fully entitled to (e.g. 100% deduction of your mixed work&#x2F;personal phone, rather than just the pro-rata amount of use for work) and hoping that you don&#x27;t stand out too much on a statistical analysis to be audited.
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sys_64738将近 2 年前
I&#x27;d also like to add that I hope all tax prep companies crash and burn and everybody loses their jobs. They are parasites.
dataflow将近 2 年前
Kind of unrelated, but didn&#x27;t the IRS also &quot;move forward&quot; with login.gov integration? Wherever did that go?
i_like_pie1将近 2 年前
good. turbotax can&#x2F;should be checked
bigfryo将近 2 年前
Our government has definitely shows that they can implement complex websites
josephd79将近 2 年前
Great, finally working on getting rid of the scam companies.
seventytwo将近 2 年前
Good.
jmclnx将近 2 年前
Lets see, the US has a big election next year, early fund raising ? Since the Citizens United Ruling, political bribes are now legal in the US.<p>I believe this system will only support the easiest of tax forms, the type any idiot can fill out.<p>Have one of these: 401k, pretax medical&#x2F;college accounts, stock dividends, non-US interest, income other then wages from commercial for-profit companies, you will be SOL.<p>And I am sure many people can add to the list of these items. These are the items that make Tax Accountants the real money.
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