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American universities have an incentive to seem extortionate

75 点作者 martincmartin将近 2 年前

20 条评论

rahimnathwani将近 2 年前
The article says that the net price (price after discounts) has gone down over time. This surprised me.<p>They cite a College Board report, but don&#x27;t specify which one. I suspect it&#x27;s this one: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;research.collegeboard.org&#x2F;trends&#x2F;college-pricing" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;research.collegeboard.org&#x2F;trends&#x2F;college-pricing</a><p>Tables CP-9 and CP-10 do indeed show net price going down for the last few years. But the figures aren&#x27;t expressed in dollars, but in &#x27;2022 dollars&#x27;, i.e. the charts don&#x27;t show the actual net price, but the net price adjusted by CPI inflation.<p>This is an important distinction because, when people pay for college, they&#x27;re not comparing it with the cost of other goods and services (which is what CPI measures), but whether they can afford it, based on their parents&#x27; current&#x2F;past income, or their own future expected income.<p>If you agree with this perspective, using CPI to make the curves look flatter does everyone a disservice. Wages for many people haven&#x27;t kept up with CPI, so a higher nominal net cost still makes college less affordable.
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nimbius将近 2 年前
Eventually this becomes an issue of national security. If your brightest minds are categorically excluded from education in the service of maintaining the American class structure and quarterly profit margins, if debt cripples to such a degree that it disenfranchises anyone from considering education in the first place, then it becomes increasingly difficult to engage in the type of research and development that keeps and maintains your nations elite status.<p>A parasitic idiocracy ensues from which the prospect of recovery at all is grim at best.
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hn_throwaway_99将近 2 年前
It&#x27;s hard for me to tell if this article is being intentionally disingenuous, or if it&#x27;s just missing the forest for the trees.<p>Take a look at this graph of college costs vs salaries for young people over time: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image.cnbcfm.com&#x2F;api&#x2F;v1&#x2F;image&#x2F;106968880-1635799559954-College_costs_vs_Earnings.jpg?v=1635799656&amp;ffmt=webp&amp;vtcrop=y" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image.cnbcfm.com&#x2F;api&#x2F;v1&#x2F;image&#x2F;106968880-163579955995...</a> . It&#x27;s really hard to look at that graph and make the argument &quot;No, no, expensive college costs are basically all in your head.&quot; The other thing I think is insane, which I see often, is to compare salaries of college grads vs. HS grads to make the argument that college is &quot;worth it&quot;. But why is it a moral argument that colleges should have a right to &quot;capture&quot; as much of this increase in earnings as they can? After all, a huge reason for the discrepancy is that people who are inclined to go to college are more likely to get higher paying jobs in the first place. It&#x27;s kinda like how I see some marketing departments that try to ascribe every single purchase to their efforts (and winning a larger budget in the process), when their &quot;science of marketing attribution&quot; is often a lot of hand wavy BS.<p>This article does make some fair points: public colleges tend to much cheaper than private ones, and most colleges give substantial grants. But even then it&#x27;s leaving out some vital details (e.g. I didn&#x27;t hear it mention room and board or obscene textbook prices). I think the thing that is most frustrating to me about the general college cost debate is that the thing that is most out of whack is giving giant, non-dischargeable student loans to students in non-lucrative majors. The reason lenders are willing to give hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans to someone who studies poetry is they know either the government has their back, or the student will be paying off their loan until they die - and colleges know this, too, which is why they feel so little downward pressure on pricing.
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monero-xmr将近 2 年前
It’s like buying used cars. As a parent you have to shop around and pit different colleges against each other for the best deal. No one knows what the real price is. And you may get a good deal, but the terms require a GPA that 85% of students fall under so mathematically the college knows they only pay the merit scholarships mostly for the first year.<p>Undergraduate is a racket. If my kids choose to get into tech I will use my connections to get them a job, either working for one of my companies or for a friend of mine, or start a company with children of friends. Now <i>that</i> is how the real world works - not handing 6 figures every year to a government sponsored scam.
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drewg123将近 2 年前
The system is seems designed to screw the middle &#x2F; upper middle class. My son is going to college next year. I make enough that my son will not qualify for aid, but I&#x27;m not a billionaire, so the sticker price that I&#x27;ll have to pay will be enough to be painful for me.<p>Using the calculator at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.savingforcollege.com&#x2F;calculators&#x2F;financial-aid-calculator" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.savingforcollege.com&#x2F;calculators&#x2F;financial-aid-c...</a>, and setting no savings and no 529, it appears you&#x27;re expected to pay about 1&#x2F;4 to 1&#x2F;3 of your AGI (checked at $50k and $500k and several points in between). Which basically means no relief from the sticker price at private schools if your AGI is over ~$250k, and no relief from the sticker price at even the least expensive public schools if your AGI is over ~$80K.<p>Or am I missing something?
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jschveibinz将近 2 年前
In the US, here is the sensible “magic” formula:<p>Go to community college for 2-3 years, then matriculate from the university. Way cheaper, better teacher&#x2F;instructors, more time to mature, start early in 12th grade, and the diploma is from the university.<p>What do you lose? 2-3 years of goofing off at a country club.<p>What do you gain? time and money.
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linguae将近 2 年前
As a way of reducing the costs of higher education in America, I’m wondering how well a “no-thrills” model of a university will be received by students, faculty, employers, and other stakeholders? Today’s universities in America arguably have far more amenities than they did generations ago. My undergraduate institution, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, had in the mid-2000s (and still has) a police department, a large student union building complete with a bowling alley, a career center, many sports and recreation facilities, a health center offering many services, dormitories ranging from classic dorms to relatively fancy shared apartments, and many non-faculty employees offering a wide range of services to their students, from academic counselors to those that watched over the university’s many fraternities and sororities. I’m grateful for these services, and I used many of them. But I wonder how much this costs the university to run, and I also wonder if the addition of such services at universities throughout America, as beneficial as they are, helped contribute to the escalating cost of college?<p>A good teaching-oriented university needs dedicated faculty, dedicated students, and facilities that help the faculty teach and help the students learn. Some costs are unavoidable, such as hiring good faculty, running a library, maintaining facilities, etc. However, if we eliminate the “frills” and pare a university down to its essentials, will it be affordable? I’m very curious if this is one of the major factors, or are there more significant factors leading to exploding costs?
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NotYourLawyer将近 2 年前
Kids with no credit history can borrow limitless money that’s backed by the government and not discharged in bankruptcy. Is anyone surprised to see the prices rising to slurp up as much of that cash as possible?
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jay-anderson将近 2 年前
I have a child starting college next year. One thing that surprised me is the number of extra fees. It very much reminded me of ticketmaster, comcast, or airbnb hidden fees. Adding them all up for starting next semester the fees are over $1000. This article does say &#x27;tuition and fees&#x27; so it&#x27;s probably taking this into account. Still it surprised me and feels like a pretty scummy practice.
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jmspring将近 2 年前
Administrative positions have grown faster than student bodies, from grade school to public universities. Teacher&#x2F;lecturer wages have not gone up with enrollment increases or administrative overhead. That is where one needs to first look for cost savings.
metaphor将近 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;ruREB" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;ruREB</a>
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presentation将近 2 年前
I agree that costs are overstated but it’s a significant downside to confuse the populace (and your customers) by being so misleading about the cost of education (their service).<p>I guess it’s kind of like enterprise pricing, in reverse. Rather than the rich outliers getting the extortionate pricing, it’s the average consumer who has to request the real price. That lack of transparency makes making a rational choice harder for the average person.
vehemenz将近 2 年前
It&#x27;s surprising, but tuition is only half the story. The cost of everything else for students is going up quickly, including room and board, food, and textbooks. Textbooks particularly have risen much faster than the rate of inflation over the last thirty years. Meanwhile, the wages paid by assistantships and work study programs have barely budged.
BenGuz将近 2 年前
I strongly recommend <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tuitiontracker.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tuitiontracker.org&#x2F;</a> for anyone in the college process interested in real costs.
lo_zamoyski将近 2 年前
If universities stuck to their core mission and shed their dead weight, bloat, and misappropriation of tuition dollars, I guarantee you that you would see a huge decrease in cost. It&#x27;s become a circus and a racket that doesn&#x27;t even deliver on the core mission, and even actively harms students. Unfortunately, the market has played a role in creating incentives to measure college quality according to the wrong factors.<p>In any case, the thicket of incentives is so dense, and the interests so mutually intertwined, that any reform would be met with kicking and screaming (and lots of rationalization, of course). This university lobby would work overtime against successful attempts to educate the public about what it means for a university to be good, and what sorts of gimmicks make them more expensive. But it is still important to try. It is important to counter the misinformation that&#x27;s taught in primary school about what universities are about, but that would also entail a reform of primary education by implication, another milieu that would resist reform. It is important that we try. We need a clear and correct notion of what education is for, and then what primary, secondary, etc. education is for. Once there is clarity, it becomes easier to make decisions about how to structure education, what to keep in, and what to keep out. It is easy to see why some may not want to resolve the ambiguity.<p>One avenue that&#x27;s being pursued is the founding of new colleges that demonstrate what is possible. This is the long haul, but in an environment as entrenched as this one, it may be the only realistic solution.
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AlexCornila将近 2 年前
Amazed that the author can even make this claim without affecting his&#x2F;her reputation&#x2F;credibility more broadly. Simply if that were the case we could’ve afford to pay for college from fixed income without the need to access loans. Second you wouldn’t have the loan crisis where the debt accelerates way above income. This is just plain dumb.
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curiousllama将近 2 年前
Anecdotally, I was able to negotiate a merit scholarship to a top college - not based on merit, totally, but based on alternative offers from other schools.<p>The price discrimination approach is a really effective method for pricing, and I&#x27;d be all for it (progressive taxation, basically) if not for the shoddy implementation leading to a student loan crisis.
nemo44x将近 2 年前
College is expensive because there’s so much demand for their services (education is important in developed economies) coupled with the moral hazard of guaranteed loans and voila - we have the situation we have today.<p>It’s this simple. I don’t know why we need think pieces on this topic. Either make college a true market product (loans would change based on expected return), make it free for all (bad idea mainly), or create an economy where education isn’t needed (regressive and not practical without “make work” which is cruel).
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shove将近 2 年前
The Economist has an incentive to push this POV
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cushpush将近 2 年前
Most fruit at the store is also pretty cheap, does that mean all food is equally good and all fruits are equally ripe?