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Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

131 点作者 magnetic将近 2 年前

24 条评论

wredue将近 2 年前
I reclaim 1.5 hours a day from work from home, so a mandated back to work would actually represent a 6 point pay cut on the day assuming I thought that through properly.<p>I don’t even have an egregious commute compared to others.<p>Never mind that all of a sudden I no longer need before and after daycare. I have a home gym and can acceptably exercise at lunch. I don’t have peer pressures to go out for lunch all the time to eat. Etc.<p>The amount of money changes just from working from home is huge.<p>Never mind that I get more done, and have way fewer interruptions. This whole “get back to the office” is transparently a middle management “I’m still relevant!” Move.
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kindatrue将近 2 年前
&quot;Unispace found that nearly half (42%) of companies with return-to-office mandates witnessed a higher level of employee attrition than they had anticipated&quot;<p>No severance payouts. No bumps to your unemployment insurance payments. Everything is working to plan.
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xyzzy_plugh将近 2 年前
Anecdotally my org is on a hiring <i>tear</i> lately and we&#x27;re completely remote, and the quality of candidates has steeply risen as of late. I mean <i>really good</i> candidates I&#x27;d rarely see before are pouring into my inbox. I&#x27;ve never talked to so many folks currently at Google, Meta, Amazon, but also big banks and other F500s.<p>Many candidates are coy about their reasons for leaving, especially given all the layoffs, but, still anecdotally, the trend I&#x27;ve seen is for folks to be sending out a lot of feelers during RTO and many folks have even told me straight up that&#x27;s why they&#x27;re looking. They want flexible hours and work locations.<p>I talked to a director last week who spends 1&#x2F;3 the year in ski country, 1&#x2F;3 the year in the Midwest and 1&#x2F;3 the year on the coast. He&#x27;s not going back, and practically anyone would be lucky to have him.<p>It&#x27;s going to be a bloodbath.
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elvis10ten将近 2 年前
Every time this topic comes up on HN, I see many anecdotes on why WFO is bad.<p>My anecdote: I work from the office everyday (unforced). 20-30 minutes commute. I come in at 6am&#x2F;7am and leave at 2pm&#x2F;3pm. I do a 30 minutes calisthenics session and then head home and usually leave my laptop in the office (as a forcing function to disconnect).<p>The result: I have built strong bonds with colleagues outside my team. A few of them have become close friends.<p>I&#x27;m also generally as productive and sometimes even more than my colleagues that WFH.<p>I feel the ideal environment is *contextual* and it’s probably a hybrid work environment where people who want to work remote can but have to touch base in-person a few times every month. I wish both sides on the debate can see this.<p>Edit: The point of my comment is neither option is bad or good. Certain people benefit from each option and it’s unfair to paint either one as bad.<p>E.g: As an immigrant, the office has been useful in seeding my social circle and learning useful things about Berlin that I probably wouldn’t have know. Just the other day a colleague outside my team informed me how I can get an extra 10 days off .<p>Someone in a different situation probably have different priorities.
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underseacables将近 2 年前
I understand why businesses want us to return to office, and cannot disagree that I would likely react the same way. However returning to the office has numerous additional costs that are very much avoidable. I have to go to the office once a week. That’s a week do gas, time, money, pollution, and using resources and space that is duplicative.
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cwkoss将近 2 年前
Commercial real estate value is a bubble that&#x27;s gonna pop soon.<p>There&#x27;s just way more office space than anyone needs.
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derealized将近 2 年前
Copy and paste of a previous article discussed here a month ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36500448">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36500448</a><p>EDIT: And copied and pasted here too: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36956799">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36956799</a>
blahyawnblah将近 2 年前
I kind of prefer going in to the office. I like talking to people around the water cooler and whatnot. BUT, remote work has definitely allowed me more opportunity than I would have otherwise based on where I live.<p>I can see how the choice thing would sway people. Maybe if going into the office, you still had the flexibility to go run errands or whatever.
Raidion将近 2 年前
My take on remote work as a manager for a company with significant name recognition:<p>I think it&#x27;s clear some people prefer working remotely (and the online hacker news crowd leans heavily that way). It&#x27;s also clear that some people feel real benefits from being in the office.<p>I think it&#x27;s inevitable that the culture of a company mirrors the values of it&#x27;s leaders.<p>Companies with leaders that value in person communication, place a high premium on random collaboration will prefer their teams to be in office, and hire people based on this. This could involve companies with large amounts of more junior people that need training or experience (and whose leaders feel that training is easier done in person).<p>Companies with leaders that feel like collaboration is less important, are more willing to set metrics and not be as directly as involved, and hire experienced employees with less oversight, lean towards remote work.<p>This means you&#x27;ll see a decline in hybrid teams. Teams want to be made up of people who share values, and this is something that will polarize teams. Companies that prioritize growing talent will prefer to be in person, companies that prefer to hire for specific roles with clear expectations will be OK being remote.<p>This polarization will be painful and shouldn&#x27;t happen quickly. I see many companies putting their finger on the scale when hiring, preferring in office roles (and selecting people that want or can&#x27;t get remote roles). Over time, natural attrition will mean less and less remote workers, and that eventual makes it easier to push others out.<p>I don&#x27;t think this is a good or bad thing, but it does mean that if you want to be fully remote, you need to remain very competitive in terms of skills. You&#x27;re competing against a wider talent pool. I do expect 3 days a week (Tues&#x2F;Wed&#x2F;Thurs) to become standard for many companies, and that broadens the &quot;recruiting&quot; radius for in office companies. 1 hour commute 5 days a week is the same time commitment as 1.5 hours commute 3 days a week.
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2023throwawayy将近 2 年前
&gt; The survey equates the displeasure of shifting from a flexible work model to a traditional one to that of experiencing a 2-3% pay cut.<p>I think they forgot a 0.
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obnauticus将近 2 年前
It is unclear who wants RTO, at least within tech and other leaders whom I know within tech.
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AgentK20将近 2 年前
...Is this article plagiarized from this article posted June 26: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.entrepreneur.com&#x2F;growing-a-business&#x2F;the-damaging-results-of-the-mandated-return-to-office-is&#x2F;454043" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.entrepreneur.com&#x2F;growing-a-business&#x2F;the-damaging...</a> ? It was even submitted to HN and had a few hundred comments: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36500448">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36500448</a>
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DiggyJohnson将近 2 年前
Seems more nuanced than this discussion is making it out. We have had attrition and recruiting challenges with RTO, but also noticeable improvements in morale and productivity - especially when it comes to onboarding new folks.
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1letterunixname将近 2 年前
I will not relocate and I will not commute to some subpar, noisy office where no one around is on my team.<p>If everything can&#x27;t be done remotely, then there&#x27;s a collaborative tech problem.<p>The other insanity is shared desks. Why even bother having an office if you&#x27;re going to take away things from your employees? It and pointless penny pinch sends the message that you&#x27;re no longer a cool place to work and nudging people to quit by stacking up the misery factor as high as possible to alleviate your guilt of doing more layoffs to keep profits high and salaries low.
anilakar将近 2 年前
Business practices evolved but the office space did not. Our open floor plan was still somewhat reasonable pre-2020 with a few quiet software developers around. Now it has been turned into a shared video conference space and thanks to the company growing there are no longer dedicated desks.<p>As if business practices changing the requirements was not bad enough, half of the floor has been taken over by the provisioning, shipping &amp; tech support team, but that&#x27;s more of an issue with the building management refusing to rent us more space in this specific case.
ericzawo将近 2 年前
The manager class is going to go kicking and screaming into the new world where they can no longer call their otherwise totally capable, productive employees into the office for morning snack like schoolchildren. The faster they accept it, the better off their organizations will be.
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arielweisberg将近 2 年前
Sure, but what is it doing to productivity for those who remain?<p>What is the opportunity cost of maintaining the extra office space vs using that money for other things such as travel so people can actually meet the people they work with?
mistrial9将近 2 年前
the author of this article is a PhD who is advertising their services at the end -- it is partially a self-promotion piece. However it has quantitative survey data, and speaks to the regulatory and also practical concerns that real corporate management faces in managing a mid-size work force. Unlike other recent articles, there is little reference to the real-estate value of office property. Instead this article talks about protected minority employees, the role of job security in the minds of both management and job-seekers, and common carrot-and-stick negotiation parts from both sides.<p>The Internet combined with recent lockdown public policy has definitely changed the constant back-and-forth of corporate hiring and job roles. One thing not mentioned at all is the change in productivity of IT overall.. For example, in farm work is was easy to measure the effects of gasoline-powered machines to replace hand labor. The effects of modern computer systems against clerks and secretaries, not so straightforward. There is no question that the returns for certain individuals has rocketed compared to &quot;ordinary workers&quot; .. Will job negotiations ever be the same? insider tip - the answer is &quot;no&quot;
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powera将近 2 年前
Bad use of statistics.<p>42% of companies seeing more attrition than expected doesn&#x27;t really mean &quot;worse than we thought&quot;. But the author is in the business of selling pro-WFH consulting, so the facts don&#x27;t really matter.
ojbyrne将近 2 年前
There&#x27;s an editorial in the Washington Post today from Michael Bloomberg pushing for RTO in the federal government, and generally, everywhere else. I wonder who is more influential?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;opinions&#x2F;2023&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;michael-bloomberg-federal-employees-offices-washington&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;opinions&#x2F;2023&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;michael-b...</a>
JackFr将近 2 年前
Are we pretending that this is a news or analysis, and not a sales pitch for &quot;the office whisperer&quot;? Article is a joke.
warning26将近 2 年前
&gt; “staggering 76% of employees stand ready to jump ship if their companies decide to pull the plug on flexible work schedules”<p>People always say this, but I’d bet that the vast majority of those 76% would begrudgingly go in if it was demanded. Talk is cheap, as they say.
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seydor将近 2 年前
Hybrid work is an unstable point. An office where half people are missing &#x2F; zooming is useless. remote vs fully present are the only two stable attractors
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gottorf将近 2 年前
Of course it&#x27;s too early to tell with lots of confounding variables, but labor productivity has been taking a steep dive[0]. So perhaps in the aggregate, WFH is resulting in less work being done.<p>I say this as someone who&#x27;s been full-time WFH for over a decade; I&#x27;m not taking a position one way or another.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fred.stlouisfed.org&#x2F;series&#x2F;MPU4910063" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fred.stlouisfed.org&#x2F;series&#x2F;MPU4910063</a>
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