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I Hope Yahoo Crushes Facebook

275 点作者 azazo大约 13 年前

27 条评论

mindstab大约 13 年前
Why are people so upset with Yahoo? Apple is still incredibly popular with the tech crowd, I bet many of these blogs and comments were written with their hardware and software, and they are currently suing just about every phone manufacturer over patents?<p>Aside from the fact it's not a web thing, how is this different? Or is that difference somehow enough for people to choke down their bile and keep using apple products?<p>I originally was going to post something about banding together and boycotting Yahoo but then remember the HUGE apple fan group that lives here.<p>Apple is worse than Yahoo IMHO (considering this is like Yahoos first suit) and yet no one cares. So why do people care about this?
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doktrin大约 13 年前
While I can't claim to speak with authority on this matter, a far more likely outcome would seem to be :<p><pre><code> 1. Yahoo sues Facebook 2. Facebook settles for some large-though-not-crippling amount of cash 3. The public forgets and moves on, since no-one's actual day-to-day user experience is affected (and we collectively do lack a bit of an attention span) 4 [epilogue]. Companies are further incentivized to leverage patents in the pursuit of financial gain </code></pre> Of course, MC knows this, which is what I'm sure prompted this post to begin with.
redsymbol大约 13 年前
Here's how I explain the problem to my tech-impaired friends and loved ones:<p>In 2012, software patents don't cover solutions. Rather, they cover problems. Anyone creating a solution to that problem must pay licensing fees. This takes large amounts of money from the people actually solving problems and improving the world, and gives it to people who don't do anything to advance human progress. If the law isn't repaired, my fear is that other countries will far surpass the USA in our lifetime.
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diogenescynic大约 13 年前
The quickest surefire way to patent reform is by threatening Facebook users that they may have to go back to using Yahoo services. People will be revolting in the streets.
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Jach大约 13 年前
&#62; Change is needed. However, its not going to come from our government.<p>Nor will it come from putting yet another sacrificial lamb on the pyre.<p>&#62; If Yahoo were to be awarded 50 Billion Dollars from Facebook, I think consumers may take notice. And don’t think that 50B should be an impossibility.<p>I don't think consumers would bat an eye. So long as facebook.com remains online, they won't care. If it goes offline, they'll migrate to Twitter, or back to MySpace, or Google. There is enough competition to Facebook right now that if they vanished overnight people wouldn't clamor for their return for very long.<p>&#62; This is what patents are for, right ? To protect companies with original IP from smarter, faster, aggressive companies who catch the imagination of consumers and advertisers. What else could patents be for ?<p>At this point I suspect the author is just trolling. Nice job. It doesn't take much research to learn that patents were meant to encourage inventors to share the details of their inventions to Society, so that Society could benefit in X years instead of waiting X+delta years for the chance something gets reinvented and shared freely.
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nh大约 13 年前
The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. - Abe Lincoln
moocow01大约 13 年前
In software these days I feel like patents are analogous to chefs patenting cooking techniques and then running into the middle of another chef's dinner service and saying he can't use cream in his mashed potatoes because of the 'creamy mashed potatoes' patent #78.1 Maybe a decade or 2 ago there was more science involved in software but these days, it seems to fall more under the realm of craft - patents need not apply.
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yuvadam大约 13 年前
<i>It’s the law of big numbers. When there are enough of anything issued, some good will be done.</i><p>Can we stop using the law of big numbers as an excuse for everything in the world? &#60;/pedantic&#62;
mcherm大约 13 年前
It's a win-win situation! The public hears lots of news stories about how stupid Yahoo's patents are, Facebook gets seriously motivated to use their warchest of money to help lobby for patent reform, and at worst, Facebook loses some cash (I'm NOT feeling sorry for them).<p>If I thought that Yahoo might come out of this with a new source of cash I'd be worried about the perverse incentives to misuse patents... but I don't see ANY way this works out for Yahoo.
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csallen大约 13 年前
As Abraham Lincoln said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."
kd5bjo大约 13 年前
The current patent system is broken. That does not imply that the right thing is to have no patent system; are we sure that the problem is with the idea instead of the implementation?<p>Can we talk about what an ideal system would look like instead of saying that what we have now is broken and therefore nothing can work? Isn't debugging broken systems what we're supposed to be good at here?<p>I've tried to come up with a reasonable patch for the current system:<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698637" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698637</a><p>I'm sure that there are problems with it, but at least it's a starting point.
dr_大约 13 年前
I'm no fan of patent lawsuits, but Apple had lawsuits ongoing with Microsoft when Jobs arrived and agreed to settle them in exchange for Microsoft making a sizeable investment in Apple. The rest is history, and no one seems to look back upon that in distaste.<p>The difference? Tech news cycles, including blogs and online papers, now report news 24/7 just like CNN/Fox, etc, and are pretty relentless.<p>Personally I don't understand why any of those patents were issued in the first place, and perhaps a start for reform would be to get people who have some experience working in the industry into the patent office.
tspiteri大约 13 年前
I can't make sense of the post; with the same reasoning, we should hope for the murder of a well-known celebrity so that we get better murder legislation.
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carlesfe大约 13 年前
I've read this line of reasoning many times, and it's like saying "Hitler needed to kill 6 million jews to that people would realize he's a bad guy".<p>No, the correct action would be to fix the system, not to cause a catastrophe so that "regular people" realize anything. Those who need to know already know.<p>I guess the author already knows that and uses this reasoning to prove a valid point, but I'm firmly against it, it's a fallacy.<p>Sorry for the Godwin.
darksaga大约 13 年前
I really feel like this is a ploy to get a chunk of Facebook, just like they did to Google (<a href="http://cnet.co/w7IaUn" rel="nofollow">http://cnet.co/w7IaUn</a>). $50B? That equates to "X" amount of shares, which Y! would snap up in an instant.<p>For a company flailing in the water right now, this seems like a perfect play to get a good financial shot in the arm.
andrewhillman大约 13 年前
I do not think Yahoo winning billions will make the public realize what is at stake. Those not in tech, don't really think deeply about our dated patent system. This will just result in more lawsuits just before companies IPO. Yahoo "crushing" FB won't change much, but we can hope it will.
duairc大约 13 年前
First of all, fuck patents. I'm in complete agreement about that (except for the bit where the author says that maybe they might be okay sometimes). I've long felt this way.<p>However, in the last year or two, I've become much more interested in more thorough change to the system in its entirety, for its own sake, not just because intellectual property law is stupid.<p>(Although you can use essentially capitalist economic logic to defeat the concept of intellectual property (meaning that capitalism and "free culture" (or whatever you want to call it) are not necessarily incompatible with each other), I don't think it will be possible (or desirable) to reform intellectual property law without also dismantling the state and (actually existing) capitalism. Or at the very least, the institution of wage labour, whereby nobody (at least by default) has access to food and shelter (the necessities of survival), because those things cost money, and people don't automatically have money, so just to be allowed to survive, they have to sell their labour. A living wage for everyone would make redundant the (invalid, anyway) argument that intellectual property rights are necessary so that creative people can earn a living, because "a living" won't mean "money" anymore.<p>(As an aside: I think intellectual property is a (failed) attempt by capitalism to deal with externalities, which it is unable to do in its unrestrained form. However, there are so many externalities, and if you were to try to fully take them all into account, you would probably end up with a fully managed economy, which seems to be the antithesis of what most capitalists want.))<p>So basically I'm coming at this from an anarchist perspective, and when I look at this stuff now I'm seeing things that I didn't see before I became an anarchist.<p>&#62; Change is needed. However, its not going to come from our government. The lobbyists have taken over. One of the symptoms of the illness patents have caused the technology industry is the explosion of lobbyists pushing the agenda of big patent portfolio holders. They are not going to let our lawmakers give an inch.<p>It's not at all uncommon to read things like this, in fact it seems entirely uncontroversial. Governments seem to have lost all legitimacy a long time ago (did they ever have it?). People don't even seem particularly upset or angry about this, it seems just to be a fact of life.<p>&#62; Rather than originating in Congress, its going to take a consumer uprising to cause change. What better way to create a consumer uprising than to financially cripple and possibly put out of business the largest social network on the planet ?<p>So then this is what really baffles me. "Consumer" and "uprising" in the same sentence. Why is the most imaginative form of resistance that anybody who opposes intellectual property rights can come up with always just a boycott of the relevant corporations? Ask anybody in the radical environmental movement how much personal consumer choices have helped slow climate change or transition our culture to a sustainable way of living. They've done fuck all. Why does nobody ever say that we need to organise a strike, or riot in the streets, or ever do anything more radical and direct than alter our personal consumer choices? I'm not necessarily saying that a riot is the best way to change patent law, I'm just pointing out how there seems to be this underlying idea that "internet" activism/politics is completely separate from "real" activism/politics and that the idea of connecting the two doesn't seem to occur to most people (in either world).
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signalsignal大约 13 年前
Is it possible to create a business which can profit off of patent trolls? Like a patent troll bait company? I've read somewhere there is a lawyer who profits off spam using the small claim courts system, so maybe something along those lines is possible...
drucken大约 13 年前
I do hope he is speaking entirely about software patents rather than all patents in general.<p>There may be issues with non-software patents but under any system their problems are trivial in scope and solution space compared to software patents.
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junto大约 13 年前
It is interesting to note that a large number of us on HN who make a livelyhood from building software, are fully adverse to software patents. Patent lawyers on the other hand are quite happy with the status quo.
jonmc12大约 13 年前
Is he serious about consumers impacting government because they get mad about their favorite brand getting sued?<p>Consumers vote with their dollars - a massive change in spending habit would be required to impact congress. Voting consumers get a say in which congressman get to be bought off by lobbyists - not sure that helps. I'm not sure I get how anything would change unless executive branch saw risk of re-election (like what happened with PIPA/SOPA).<p>I've also wondered, since corporations are people with 1st amendment rights, how does a patent not infringe upon freedom of speech? Would love if there was some basis of judicial review that could effectively influence IP laws.
rdl大约 13 年前
I suspect this raises the value of the shell of Kodak, too (they have some imaging patents, although Apple is suing them for other imaging patents, perhaps defensively).
davemel37大约 13 年前
"If Ifs and Buts Were Candy And Nuts, We'd All Have a Merry Christmas!" - Sheldon Cooper
zerostar07大约 13 年前
Someone should patent the patent creation process.
shareme大约 13 年前
Lets see if we can get some use out of this thread:<p>What countries DO NOT SUPPORT SOFTWARE PATENTS?<p>My probably guess if China..any others?
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reader5000大约 13 年前
*He is being rhetorical
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rjurney大约 13 年前
This is the dumbest 100+ upvote link ever.