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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

855 点作者 king_phil将近 2 年前

26 条评论

nntwozz将近 2 年前
Just want to share these relevant videos from Asianometry:<p>How Semiconductors Ruined East Germany<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;cxrkC-pMH_s" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;cxrkC-pMH_s</a><p>Why Europe Lost Semiconductors<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;5ZdmS-EAbHo" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;5ZdmS-EAbHo</a><p>Europe’s Lost Decades in Semiconductors<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;PpSdytrNEBg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;PpSdytrNEBg</a><p>It&#x27;s great to get chip manufacturing back to Germany after all the struggles, even if it&#x27;s not cutting edge.
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ryukoposting将近 2 年前
I think folks here are missing the point of a fab like this. 16nm FinFET is space age technology by embedded systems standards. Nobody&#x27;s expecting CPUs as advanced as Sandy Bridge to come out of this fab, let alone some bazillion-core 8GHz monster. The smallest transistor used in an STM32xx chip today is 40nm, and AFAIK that&#x27;s reserved for the really fancy DSP chips.
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zoobab将近 2 年前
As I predicted, public money of the European Chips Act will flow to the big guys:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pr.tsmc.com&#x2F;english&#x2F;news&#x2F;3049" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pr.tsmc.com&#x2F;english&#x2F;news&#x2F;3049</a><p>&quot;with the final investment decision pending confirmation of the level of public funding for this project. The project is planned under the framework of the European Chips Act.&quot;
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dontupvoteme将近 2 年前
Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS.<p>Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA.<p>Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after Italy rightfully brought up issues with data privacy. Microsoft made him walk that one back <i>real</i> quick - he probably wasn&#x27;t really aware that he is now one of their employees - but it hopefully got through to Brussels about how these guys want to operate.<p>We&#x27;ll also probably get a lot better support for languges which aren&#x27;t english (especially French, I really love their stubborn nature to stick with their langauge over the anglo one), an entire other scary effect of LLMs is the potential to accelerate language death<p>Very nice to see.
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qiqitori将近 2 年前
Why are there so many somewhat toxic comments on this article?
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dav_Oz将近 2 年前
For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden):<p>A registered association (<i>e.V.</i> in German) bluntly named &quot;Silicon Saxony e.V.&quot; (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1]<p>As pointed out the process <i>TSMC’s 28&#x2F;22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16&#x2F;12 nanometer FinFET process technology</i> (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not &quot;cutting edge&quot; but set to satisfy the (local) demand [2] mostly for the automotive industry. I guess a good conservative foothold given the current economic&#x2F;geopolitical environment, but it&#x27;s not like an innovation&#x2F;investing boom or something.<p>However from a perspective of a young student, Saxony&#x2F;Dresden - as for now - is pretty inexpensive as compared to Berlin, Hamburg or Munich and has ample opportunities (TU Dresden, Fraunhofer, MPI, Helmholtz Zentrum ...).<p>[From personal experience I find the people in Saxony (Leipzig, Dresden) have a more deep-rooted skepticism towards the federal government (or any centralized entity ruling over them) which can lead to a good thing - interesting perspectives&#x2F;lively discussions or depending on your position less good - leaning more to the political (far) right.]<p>[0]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Silicon_Saxony" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Silicon_Saxony</a><p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;silicon-saxony.de&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;silicon-saxony.de&#x2F;</a><p>[2]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2020%E2%80%932023_global_chip_shortage" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2020%E2%80%932023_global_chi...</a>
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sirius87将近 2 年前
Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security.<p>If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing&#x27;s one China principle.
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hbarka将近 2 年前
Genuinely curious how these events fall in place. I&#x27;d like to know how long a selection process like this takes, were there other cities in the running, and how did Dresden become the choice. Is the best similarity with how car companies like VW and Honda choose cities in the US?
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dragonelite将近 2 年前
Like with the Arizona fab question where will they find the skilled workers? Putting up four walls and a roof, with some chip fabbing equipment doesn&#x27;t make an efficient fabrication location. When you have American TSMC worker complain about long shift hours i imaging it wouldn&#x27;t be any better in Europe for TSMC.<p>This feels more like TSMC grabbing from subsidies pots where it can hoping this will please the NATO nations and that TSMC hopefully survive long enough te reenter the mainland again on time before the mainland goes completely domestic with chips fabrication.
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sharts将近 2 年前
Why does it always seem major projects like this start about 10 years after people realize we need major projects like this?
KingOfCoders将近 2 年前
Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in &#x27;43).
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sergiotapia将近 2 年前
If enough of these pop up Taiwan is cooked right? Is there anything Taiwan is doing to try to stop these efforts? Also in terms of the world security which is preferable:<p>1. Have many fabs and derisk by diversification?<p>2. Keep Taiwan safe and chest-bump china?
AdamN将近 2 年前
Sort of incredible that Germany is getting decade old technology for this much investment.
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spdy将近 2 年前
Just out of curiosity how hard would it be to re-fit such a foundary to modern &lt;5nm cpu fabs with ASML&#x2F;Zeiss directly around the corner.
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NKosmatos将近 2 年前
“…begin construction of the fab in the second half of 2024 with production targeted to begin by the end of 2027”.<p>It’s good to see new fabs in Europe, but I think it’s a bit late and with “old” technology. On the other hand there are many other areas in need of chips that will benefit from this in the coming years.
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KingOfCoders将近 2 年前
What irony if chips bring wealth to saxony, when chip production in the GDR was one of the reason it collapsed.
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steeve将近 2 年前
I wonder why they chose the country with the second worst electricity CO2 wise?<p>Unless it’s for cars?
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puchatek将近 2 年前
So &quot;fab&quot; is short for microchip factory? TIL
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szundi将近 2 年前
Are these 2000 jobs really high-tech?
rllearneratwork将近 2 年前
Why there? Germany has some crazy labor laws, they will be in for a surprise long term.
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zsz将近 2 年前
This is quite a surprise. Germany is currently reeling from poor economic conditions including high inflation rates, skyrocketing energy costs, a measure of pessimistic disillusionment vis-a-vis their elected leadership, etc. This is also related to a general sense that businesses are exiting the German market due to burdensome regulations and rising cost of doing business (in large part due to spiraling energy costs). I am no expert, but this announcement stands in stark contrast to said premises--and I can&#x27;t help but wonder if this move might not be at least in part politically motivated. The facts as they currently stand: Germany considers itself a trading partner with China, but is aware of the rising imbalance in competitiveness (significantly due to phasing out of ICE vehicle manufacturing, where they held a significant lead, and simultaneous phasing in of BEV manufacturing, where China holds significant advantages, both in accrued institutional knowledge and access to requisite raw materials). At the same time, the German leadership coalition has been frustrated by the rising pushback against the Green transformation of the German economy, which they view as non negotiable, but is objectively a non-trivial factor of the economic malaise.<p>Let&#x27;s say TSMC does manage to build a fab before 2027 (the year China is expected to complete the modernization of their military and launch their campaign against the island of Formosa&#x27;s governing body, aka the Taiwanese government). How might such an extravagant outlay of investment funds (which could significantly improve the economic outlook in Germany and take a lot of pressure off the existing government) impact Germany&#x27;s relationship with China in the crucial near term (the next few years)?<p>Let&#x27;s not forget, for decades the CCP worked strategically on bringing about the reverse: isolating the ROC government by engaging in lending practices that sometimes resulted in situations where they could use this leverage to promote a gradual deprivation of the ROC&#x27;s status as an officially recognized governing body (which has shrunk over the years to a mere 11 or even fewer nations).<p>Of course it isn&#x27;t as if Germany&#x27;s support would significantly affect the CCP&#x27;s (meaning, Xi Jinping&#x27;s) plans of Chinese Rejuvenation (wherein bringing Taiwan under heel is a non negotiable component), considering that even the US&#x27; increasingly overt support has had no effect on what the CCP has always viewed as an inevitability. Conversely, as the Ukraine debacle has indisputably demonstrated, even indirect support (especially from a Western ally) has a profoundly disruptive effect on the expected development and eventual outcome of any military engagement.<p>Also, as some may still remember, one of the principal factors that led to China&#x27;s significant manufacturing modernization was a somewhat similar deal, wherein China &quot;bailed out&quot; a prominent US manufacturer (Boeing?) that was close to bankruptcy, by agreeing to purchase several billion dollars&#x27; worth of civilian airplanes, and in return being handed the high precision tooling infrastructure that&#x27;s indispensable in the manufacture of high tech machinery (because of the military&#x2F;national security implications, this required political support at the highest levels of government, meaning presidential and bipartisan support). I am suggesting this could be analogous, differing chiefly in the type of benefit that is gained by the other party, as a result. For China, it was high precision tools, while for the 23 million inhabitants of the island of Formosa (who as a group, if not a sovereign nation already dominate the semiconductor industry) it may well be a tactically swift reversal in international standing (something that barely registered at all until very recently, but then rapidly expanded into an all encompassing existential crisis rivaling their defeat at the hands of the Chinese communists, 70 years prior).
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baybal2将近 2 年前
That&#x27;s an interesting development. I can&#x27;t fathom how TSMC would&#x27;ve let Infineon+NXP into the deal without some level of positive, or negative coercion.<p>For Germany, it&#x27;s an insurance against TSMC possibly bailing out in the future.<p>The 22nm node is also a very strange choice. It&#x27;s absolutely not a thing which most of German industry needs, which are microcontroller, high voltage, mixed signal, niche memory, and ASIC friendly nodes.
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thiago_fm将近 2 年前
Great to see they coming to Germany. If Tesla could build a car factory here from scratch, I&#x27;m sure that they can build chips too.<p>Curious why they&#x27;ve chosen Dresden though.<p>Anybody knows how much the government is willing to invest? Missing some tangible figures.
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qlkjwenf将近 2 年前
HUGE mistake for TSMC! Don&#x27;t forget that german authorities hate entrepreneurs and they will do whatever possible to make their life as excruciating as possible. Communism ideology founders (Marx, Engels etc.) were all born in Germany and this is not a coincidence.
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DeathArrow将近 2 年前
28nm is &#x27;advanced semiconductor manufacturing&#x27;? Did they use ChatGPT for the press release, or what?
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alecco将近 2 年前
This smells of government-subsidized terrible ideas. German energy costs, land costs, lack of water, crazy high taxes, and anti-business governments.<p>OTOH Netherlands would make a much better option in almost every angle. And add having ASML engineers around the corner.
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