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My resignation letter as R7RS-large chair

154 点作者 nickmain超过 1 年前

17 条评论

tptacek超过 1 年前
It'd be neat if someone familiar with Scheme standardization laid out some of the big disagreements in R7RS-large, or else most of this thread will just be a Scheme vs. Every Other Language discussion.
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gumby超过 1 年前
Could someone fill in the background? R7RS seems like an unlikely venue for hot conflict, but then again I haven't been a scheme user in decaes.
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neilv超过 1 年前
Thanks to John Cowan for all his work on a very challenging PL standards efforts.<p>Someday, I&#x27;d be interested in what were the <i>process</i> difficulties overcome, and how, and what are the remaining problems or costs.<p>(Disclosure: I was involved in the working groups, briefly and in a much lesser capacity.)
ansible超过 1 年前
What&#x27;s the overall Scheme community look like these days? How much are new libraries targeting the specifications (like R6RS) vs. just targeting a specific implementation like Racket, Guile or Chicken Scheme?<p>What forces are keeping the various implementations aligned and moving in the same direction? What is driving them apart? What does the future look like?
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tedivm超过 1 年前
Does anyone actually use Scheme for real projects? The only places I&#x27;ve ever seen it used have been in classrooms.
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hinkley超过 1 年前
I hate that the world sometimes requires a human sacrifice in order for change to happen. I can empathize with people that say this is a stupid way to fix a problem, but unfortunately the world is full of stupid things that actually work.<p>On one project, we had a horrible integration test system that required a human to read and interpret the output. The guy who wrote it made his own DSL. As we struggled with it, he noped out and left the project. The next guy had partly the right idea. He figured out how to translate the whole thing into Python with a couple of macros. So at least you could step through it. Then he noped out. Since I do a lot of CI&#x2F;CD work and my primary goal on the project had already been fulfilled, I took over. What a mess. I made it better but I still couldn&#x27;t nail down pass&#x2F;fail statuses reliably. Pointless system.<p>I kept harping on how we needed to throw out the whole thing. It was a false sense of safety at best. When I left to work on something closer to my life goals, at the very last big meeting one of my people I&#x27;d been mentoring said, &quot;The last 3 people to leave this team worked on this one project. Maybe we should get rid of it.&quot; and everyone started nodding. Son of a bitch.<p>Now, I wouldn&#x27;t have stayed anyway, but someone else might have. I&#x27;ve seen other situations like this play out, and while there&#x27;s always gonna be someone who &#x27;takes their ball and goes home&#x27;, often enough it&#x27;s someone reasonably determining that they cannot or will not be responsible for the chaos represented by Option A over Option B. This will burn down, fall over, and sink into the swamp.
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tannhaeuser超过 1 年前
FYI John Cowan is also known as editor of the XML 1.1 spec, as well as other works related to markup languages and Unicode.
greggsy超过 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;johnwcowan&#x2F;r7rs-work&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;R7RSHomePage.md">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;johnwcowan&#x2F;r7rs-work&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;R7RSHome...</a><p>I still have no idea what exactly R7RS is
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jp57超过 1 年前
I got involved with scheme back in the days of R{5,6}RS (as a user, not in the standards process). Even then it was an argument for the BDFL model over design by committee.
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zelphirkalt超过 1 年前
While reading I had a thought:<p>What if they (whoever it is, who could or should do this) worked on a proposal, that specifies, how language features should be added to the language? I mean, there are things like continuations and macros. Those need to be really solid. But based on them, could one not make everything else an optional addition, implemented on top of them, instead of in a dialect&#x27;s core? So that Schemes could all go for R7RS small (except those that object to things in it) and then basically have a &quot;folder&quot; in their sources of things that are additionally necessary to have R7RS large things? Those things being implemented in the way that the standard proposes? Then we could get to a R7RS large step by step, feature by feature.<p>I guess this depends on whether things in R7RS large are at their core incompatible with how R7RS small works. Probably it also depends on those dialects implementing the standards correctly for the primitives, that the extension mechanism is supposed to be based on.<p>I also don&#x27;t know enough to tell what attempts have already been made to resolve things, so perhaps someone already had this idea and it does not work.
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eweise超过 1 年前
Disappointed. Thought I was going to see a resignation letter shaped like a large chair.
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bjoli超过 1 年前
Who will convince Kent to come back and make r6.1rs? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cisco&#x2F;ChezScheme&#x2F;issues&#x2F;574">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cisco&#x2F;ChezScheme&#x2F;issues&#x2F;574</a><p>If you want a large language, isn&#x27;t it a better idea to build it on top of something the makes better guarantees for the user? I prefer my program to not continue executing after reaching an erroneous state.
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BaculumMeumEst超过 1 年前
i never actually understood how r7rs is supposed to work in practice, because when i learn a scheme i’ve always just learned how to use implementation-specific functionality
fud101超过 1 年前
Jcowan always been a class act.
bachmeier超过 1 年前
Additional background would be nice. I clicked the link out of curiosity to see what it meant for a piece of furniture to resign from something. After clicking the link, I was no better informed.
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layer8超过 1 年前
Took me a few moments to realize this isn’t a satirical text about a large seating furniture.
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refulgentis超过 1 年前
I almost posted this an hour ago, and feel more comfy now that it’s an hour later:<p>I’m sad how quickly this rocketed to top 3 on front page and how little content there is, it’s just someone resigning from a project virtually none of us know about. The “My resignation letter” was titillating enough to skyrocket upvotes and engagement
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