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Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

46 点作者 itzehoe将近 2 年前

20 条评论

jfkimmes将近 2 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230817111254&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;leaders&#x2F;2023&#x2F;08&#x2F;17&#x2F;is-germany-once-again-the-sick-man-of-europe" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230817111254&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econo...</a>
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probably_wrong将近 2 年前
As a foreigner living in Germany for the best part of a decade, I tend to agree with the article that the situation is not dire but, at the same time, it does need work.<p>The train situation is a good starting point: an industry that used to be great and has been in slow decline for years without anyone doing anything other than shrugging and saying &quot;well, that&#x27;s how it is&quot; or &quot;yeah, but we are still better than X&quot;. I cannot speak for major macroeconomic trends but, as an individual, I can say that getting a doctor&#x27;s appointment, an apartment, internet (not just the speed, but also getting the actual connection), a <i>mandatory</i> appointment at the &quot;Bürgeramt&quot; (and don&#x27;t get me started on my citizenship application!) and (of course) traveling by train have been getting <i>slightly</i> more frustrating every year.<p>I know some of it is part of wider, world-wide tendencies (thanks, AirBnB), but it&#x27;s also fair to recognize that the German government is getting asleep at the wheel. I actually appreciate that the government tends to err on the side of caution, but I also have to recognize that there&#x27;s a line between &quot;caution&quot; and &quot;paralyzed&quot;. I don&#x27;t need to pay my taxes with Venmo, but I do need an apartment that I can actually afford to rent.
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littlecranky67将近 2 年前
I&#x27;m currently in the process of moving my business (one-man show, incorporated LLC doing IT&#x2F;SW Eng.) out of Germany. The amount of bureaucracy running even the smallest of companies with no office at all (work out of home) is hilarious.<p>So much you need to get an accountant&#x2F;tax advisor, but even then they will pass-through a lot of the bureaucracy. I need to put down excel sheets for every day of a business trip I do, mark whether its been longer or shorter than 8 hours, arrival&#x2F;leave day etc. And double pay attention that the hotel you stayed didn&#x27;t include breakfast, or at least had it separate on the invoice. If getting a company car, you are in for some real tax hell.<p>On top of that, the accountant charges ~5.000€&#x2F;year for this single-person business (personal income tax declaration included). And no, it is not just an expensive accountant, as in Germany accountant prices are regulated just as lawyer fees are (they can max. give you 20% discount). Meanwhile, when I talk to my friends in Spain they pay less than 1.000€&#x2F;year for accounting for an LLC (S.L.) with not even close the bureaucracy. And bear in mind, I&#x27;m german and speak the language, but even I struggle to keep up with all tax- and business regulations. On top of that, we have the highest tax load and social insurance is also amongst the top price ranges, while waiting months for a doctors appointment.
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hliyan将近 2 年前
The anecdotal evidence the author supplies: economic growth is slow, trains are late, IT investment as a % of GDP is half that of US and France, business license takes 120 days to acquire. Nowhere does it seem to talk about living standards of the population. As if the economy is its own end and the population is just an epiphenomenon.
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nicbou将近 2 年前
This article is not saying anything at all. It&#x27;s just a bunch of vague, loosely related complaints thrown together, as if the author built their thesis from reading reddit comments about Germany, but never stepped foot there. It&#x27;s a real Gish gallop.
mitjam将近 2 年前
For context: This refers to an Economist special published in 1999 (&quot;The sick man of the euro&quot;) which fuelled a public discourse in Germany on what needs to be improved leading up to the labor market reforms under chancellor Schröder (&quot;Hartz IV&quot; etc.). This fixed the most imminent problem of the time (high unemployment rate, inflexible labor market) and led to a stronger economic period in Germany.<p>This time, the underlying problems are probably much harder to tackle:<p>1. Germany&#x27;s economic model depends on high worker productivity, strong education, cheap energy (still large industry base). All of these have structural weaknesses.<p>2. The public discourse is very much focussed on climate change, allowing little room for other discourses. Don&#x27;t get me wrong: I believe the climate change discourse is globally the most important discourse of our time; it is just that there is little room left for other broad social discourses in Germany, at the moment.<p>3. No immediate pressure comparable to the high unemployment rate at the time. The German economy is getting comparably weaker, slowly but steadily. (Boiling frog problem)<p>That the economy is getting weaker, is eg. visible in GDP constant prices growth rate stats. It is yet not as severe as last time (between 2003 and 2006, Germany was last in G7, even behind Japan, and Italy with base year 1999), but the gap between the best performing G7 countries (US, Canada), number 3 (UK) and Germany is widening. Since 2017 Germany has fallen behind France, too (except in 2020). (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imf.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;Publications&#x2F;WEO&#x2F;weo-database&#x2F;2023&#x2F;April&#x2F;weo-report?c=156,132,134,136,158,112,111,&amp;s=NGDP_R,&amp;sy=1999&amp;ey=2028&amp;ssm=0&amp;scsm=1&amp;scc=0&amp;ssd=1&amp;ssc=0&amp;sic=0&amp;sort=country&amp;ds=.&amp;br=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imf.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;Publications&#x2F;WEO&#x2F;weo-database&#x2F;2023&#x2F;Ap...</a>)
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mantas将近 2 年前
It&#x27;s funny that everybody is focusing on how Germans won&#x27;t change language to something else to attract muh migrants. But there&#x27;s no talk about local culture. How do we raise next generation to go do real jobs? Instead of dreaming to become tiktokers or whatever is fancy at the moment.<p>Few migrants won&#x27;t fix anything if locals sit on their asses. Especially if local culture pushes 2nd&#x2F;3rd gen migrants the same way.<p>We need to use state propaganda machine (which is already very well greased in EU) to make it fancy to be engineer, doctor and so on. And then make sure those professions let people build a nice life. Universities have to be geared towards that as well.
the_common_man将近 2 年前
&gt; Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country.<p>A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.
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DocTomoe将近 2 年前
As a German ... I find it <i>interesting</i> that the Economist starts using &#x27;sick man of Europe&#x27; the very same day a high-ranking conservative politician begins using that language [1], which has been absent since the early 2000s.<p>Coincidence, or a coordinated effort to bring in a new narrative?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tagesspiegel.de&#x2F;politik&#x2F;wir-sind-der-kranke-mann-der-welt-cdu-generalsekretar-linnemann-will-eine-agenda-2030-fur-deutschland-10327171.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tagesspiegel.de&#x2F;politik&#x2F;wir-sind-der-kranke-mann...</a>
mrcartmeneses将近 2 年前
When a newspaper article is headlined with a question the answer is always no
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bgdam将近 2 年前
As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I&#x27;ve recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you&#x27;re in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996.<p>Every single thing is so obsolete. Nothing is digitized. Everything requires a giant stack of actual paperwork to be taken to an office where the whims of the clerk dictate everything. A million rules exist in the hopes that they cover all possible scenarios, but inevitable they don&#x27;t and if you happen to have a scenario which is not covered, you&#x27;re shit out of luck because the clerk is sure as shit not going to put their ass on the line and make a decision not explicitly present in the rule book.<p>You pay through the nose for health insurance, but when you need to find a doctor, none can take you because their quota of public insurance patients is done for the quarter. If I paid the same amount in insurance in India, I&#x27;d have a helicopter flown out every time I stubbed my toe.<p>And then there&#x27;s the wait time for everything. Appointment for visa extension: 8 months. Driving license conversion: 1 year. German exam: 5 months. What, you want the results for your exam also? Better wait another year then. Honestly Germany is a shit show, and if I hadn&#x27;t already invested so much time, money and energy into this god forsaken country, I&#x27;d be out of here in a heartbeat.<p>But the worst part of all this is - the vast majority of Germans think this is all acceptable and okay. If you go to the &#x2F;r&#x2F;germany or &#x2F;r&#x2F;de subreddits, any thread with genuine complaints will be drowned in responses from native Germans who naively believe that Germany is a great country to live in because they either don&#x27;t have these problems, or they know how to work the system and get their results. So there is no voting pressure to get things to change. So long as the omas and opas get their pension, Germany will stay as it is for ever - there is no need to change in their view.
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Closi将近 2 年前
Anecdotally my experience dealing with German companies being in the UK is that they can be highly detail-oriented and process driven, to the point where they can be hard to work with if you are outside Germany.<p>It seems that progressing fast with high levels of uncertainty and ambiguity isn&#x27;t common, while other western companies seem happier to proceed faster with a looser brief and to solve problems flexibly as they come along.<p>Of course this won&#x27;t be a universal truth and it might just be my personal experience, and it might also be a benefit in many situations, but I&#x27;ve always felt Germany has a different work culture compared to other European and Western countries.
smcl将近 2 年前
How can Germany be the &quot;sick man&quot; of Europe when the UK continues to UK?
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mildmotive将近 2 年前
&gt; Added to this are worsening geopolitics, the difficulty of eliminating carbon emissions and the travails of an ageing population.<p>Worsening geopolitics and an ageing population are more immideate problem compared to the inability to eliminate (not reduce) carbon emissions.<p>Or am I missing something? Can someone explain to me why ”eliminating carbon emissions” was sandwiched between the other two issues?
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houl将近 2 年前
&gt; a series of reforms in the early 2000s ushered in a golden age<p>Who did the reforms? -- Cabinet Schröder.<p>Who did nothing since then? -- Cabinet Merkel.
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gsky将近 2 年前
How many outside professionals know German language. No wonder many won&#x27;t prefer Germany.
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simonblack将近 2 年前
If you end up paying multiple times more for energy than you were a couple of years back, it&#x27;s natural that exports are lower and imports are higher.<p>That means de-industrialisation of the country in a major way, because there&#x27;s no way you can remain competitive on the world stage.<p>Germany was the major bread-winner and subsidiser for the whole of the EU, so it&#x27;s not really that &#x27;Germany is the sick man of Europe&#x27;, it&#x27;s more that &#x27;Europe is the sick man of the West&#x27;.
neovialogistics将近 2 年前
We should be thankful that Betteridge&#x27;s law of headlines applies here because Germans have a historical trend of coming up with internationally unpopular policies when they feel like they&#x27;re in an economic downturn.
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LatteLazy将近 2 年前
No, the UK is.
lproven将近 2 年前
Betteridge&#x27;s Law of Headlines applies.