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Man Supposedly Flies With Custom-Built Bird Wings

360 点作者 dym大约 13 年前

61 条评论

JoeCortopassi大约 13 年前
Things that make this video implausible:<p>1) You have the engineering fortitude to come up with something that has never been done before, and you choose to attach it to your body with a consumer grade backback? And not even a full hiking one with multiple points of attachment? No rock-climbing harness?<p>2) Fabric is waaay too loose on the wings to be effective in any kind of aerodynamic sense. At best this is a kite<p>3) He would "only be able to come up with 5% of the power needed", so he used a bunch of Turnigy motors and some magical super-compact power supply to provide the necessary lift? Not to mention, motors aren't exactly built for rapid oscillation back and forth, and I see no complex mechanisms to turn rotations into a very strong/rapid oscillating force<p>4) There are ZERO control surfaces on those wings to be able to pull up for a landing like he does. No, that pillow case between his legs doesn't count.<p>5) An Android operated system, that dynamically reads two separate wii remotes, and converts that accelerometer input into wing movements would not be that responsive.<p>6) No continuous shot from take-off to landing<p>7) No shot of the gear used to accomplish this, whether it be the motors/batteries/wiring/pulleys
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Lazare大约 13 年前
Watch a bird take off. Start with some pigeons, then some sea gulls. If you can, watch an albatross - on YouTube if nothing else. As you get larger, you get heavier; as you get heavier you need more lifting force (ie, bigger wings, moving faster). Recall that weight is a function of volume and increases with the cube of your dimensions, while lifting force is a function of surface area and only increases with the square of your dimensions. Very <i>very</i> roughly if you're twice as big, you get four times the surface area but eight times the weight, meaning that as you get larger flying goes from being "difficult" to impossible. And a man is large, and the batteries and motors he was allegedly using just add weight.<p>All of which is a long way of saying that he runs very slowly, his wings are very small, and they flap very slowly. The first couple seconds of him after take off our patently absurd; you need to be applying - somehow - hundreds of pounds of force to the air to push you off the ground. Yes, fine, he has a wonderful wing design and some amazing motors and (apparently) zero weight batteries. Fantastic! But none of the components in that video are producing hundreds of pounds of force. (A commenter at Wired estimates that the servo motors are theoretically applying enough force to pick up a two ton load, in fraction of a second. If we had this tech, we could fly, although <i>that</i> wing design probably couldn't. We could also make Iron Man-style powered armour. Unfortunately, we don't have this tech.) The whole thing is multiple orders of magnitude off from the realm of "remotely possible".<p>There are just so <i>many</i> red flags. The bizarre edits, the poor filming, the ridiculous design of the wing, the secrecy, the way nobody in the video acts right, the way the wing magically changes designs in different shots, the fact that the wing is clearly not fully loaded, the weird clothing and gear choices, etc., etc., etc. Wired has been hoaxed <i>hard</i>.
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avree大约 13 年前
Incredibly skeptical. Red flags:<p>1. He's received criticism about his videos before, but still insists on filming in random parks, only releasing to press after the event, and using blurry/shaky footage.<p>2. When he takes off, the camera shakes heavily. When he lands, someone steps in front to block the view.<p>3. At 0:35, his legs lift up so that his body is parallel to the ground (necessary for flight.) If he had been placing his legs on some sort of device for flight, why would the liftup be that smooth?<p>This would be awesome if it were real, but... just seems fishy.
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joeld42大约 13 年前
I've worked in the visual effects industry and I don't think this is CGI, at least not in the sense that most commenters mean, a digital rendering of the dude and the wings. If it is, there's a lot of small details that they got right. It could be, and the poor quality of the video makes it hard to tell for sure, but I think that's misdirection.<p>My guess is that the wings are not mechanical at all beyond being flexible, and he's just pulling on them to flap, and they pulled the guy from an ATV or something. His motion looks like a kite, when he's flapping wildly the front of his chest stays pretty stable and looks like it's anchored. The wings look like they could be modified versions of those kite-surfing things people use.<p>It's a hell of a lot easier to paint out a wire and a vehicle than it is to put in a synthetic flying dude. and that would get you the helmet-cam footage without having to do extra work.<p>Also there's tire tracks on the ground from previous takes.<p>edit: for example:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvD_0qZzhdo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvD_0qZzhdo</a><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKlaRtCwIqk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKlaRtCwIqk</a><p>It might not even be the wings providing the lift, he could have a whole chute behind it like in these videos.
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khalidmbajwa大约 13 年前
Interesting that Jamie Hyneman of the MythBusters fame Doesn't think it was faked. According him to the science checks out ! <a href="http://www.tested.com/articles/43440-thoughts-on-the-mechanics-of-assisted-human-flight/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tested.com/articles/43440-thoughts-on-the-mechani...</a>
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6ren大约 13 年前
Conceptually plausible: the cyclic motion of articulated wings (flapping) seems understood in models e.g. <a href="http://www.ornithopter.de/english/clips.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ornithopter.de/english/clips.htm</a> Jarno's idea of a powered exoskeleton wing to provide x20 power is right in principle, but needs light batteries: Prof Otten <a href="http://www.humanbirdwings.net/about/interview-with-bert-otten/" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanbirdwings.net/about/interview-with-bert-otte...</a><p>As comparison, a human-powered articulated wing: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ</a> A non-articulated wing <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1638710914506519616" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1638710914506519616</a> (18km) And the famous Gossamer Albatross flew from England to France <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Albatross" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Albatross</a> Also <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithopter#Manned_flight" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithopter#Manned_flight</a><p>To the downvoters: haters gonna hate, hackers gonna hack
grannyg00se大约 13 年前
There is simply not enough air being moved by those airfoils to lift a 150+ lb object off the ground. He'd need much more speed than that. Or much more wing area. Or much faster articulation. And in any of those cases, the pathetic "wings" would deform horribly and ruin any aerodynamic properties they might possibly possess.<p>*edit Now that I've actually watched the video, there's something I'd like to add to the list of red flags others have already pointed out: His landing trajectory. It's way too steep and forward. He'd have to enjoy a near 1:1 thrust ratio to land at that angle, and he'd have to have been pitched up and back to apply all of that thrust against gravity and his forward motion.
InclinedPlane大约 13 年前
I made this for a nested comment, I'll bring it up a level. Think this looks real? <a href="http://i.imgur.com/YtPMI.png" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/YtPMI.png</a><p>The grass in the second one (suspected CGI) isn't even the same color or saturation level.
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MartinodF大约 13 年前
I believe this could be real, but the wings are powered by 4 electric motors. He uses an HTC Android phone and a WiiMote to read the movements of his arms, and that readings are used to control the wings.<p>There are many more details on his blog <a href="http://www.humanbirdwings.net/project-timeline/" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanbirdwings.net/project-timeline/</a><p>Edit: JoeCortopassi raised some good points in his comment. I'm not so sure this is plausible, even with the 4 motors.
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tzm大约 13 年前
Other confirmed man powered flight tests:<p>Snowbird ornithopter <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ</a><p>MIT Daedalus <a href="http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/Daedalus/HTML/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/Daedalus/HTML/</a>
iandanforth大约 13 年前
Disclosure: I fell for this. That said here is another red flag:<p>The guys reaction at the end of the video is not one of triumph and excitement. Here are some videos of what real reactions look like:<p>First time skydiving:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v=nSuGJB7ZykI#t=228s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v...</a><p>Breaking a world record:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v=vWde8sMxe1w#t=42s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v...</a><p>Winning:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOcf6oEiRT0&#38;feature=player_detailpage#t=50s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOcf6oEiRT0&#38;feature=playe...</a><p>*Edit - Fixed last link
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binarysolo大约 13 年前
Maybe the Internet has ruined me too, but this reminds me of that other viral ad campaign of guys running on water.<p><a href="http://gawker.com/5539222/how-not-to-fall-for-a-viral-marketing-scheme" rel="nofollow">http://gawker.com/5539222/how-not-to-fall-for-a-viral-market...</a> (Yes it's Gawker but they did have one of the better write-ups :/ ).<p>A few minutes browsing the project homepage (<a href="http://www.humanbirdwings.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanbirdwings.net</a>) and WHOIS (<a href="http://whois.net/whois/humanbirdwings.net" rel="nofollow">http://whois.net/whois/humanbirdwings.net</a>) makes it look more legit though...
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Steko大约 13 年前
I've thought about whether we'll start to see things like this soon with composites and nanofibers. I'd love to see the math taken apart, I assume we're still a ways away from it.<p>The first person to really fly like this may well be a double amputee or other person generally thought of as "disabled". Someone like Bob Wieland would have an enormous advantage on paper over someone like the guy in the video.
marshray大约 13 年前
In the part 14 video, at 0:34 it cuts to another camera on the right much closer to the point of liftoff. It's not a long range shot because the angle seems to sweep up to 45 degrees quickly. A camera at this position should be visible in the shot before, but there's not one.<p>Edit: OK at 0:23 you catch a glimpse of someone by the lake that might be in position for that shot.
andrewfelix大约 13 年前
This is the beginning of an ad campaign. My old agency used to do these things all the time. Here's one we created to make Japan look more intimidating leading up to an A-League match, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G89gGJayA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G89gGJayA</a><p>Hint: It's fake.
jcampbell1大约 13 年前
Just to be clear, the power is coming from electric motors, and he is flapping his arms just because that is how the control system was designed, right?
uptown大约 13 年前
If this actually worked, wouldn't he have done it dozens of times, and have videos of each flight?
KVFinn大约 13 年前
They could verify this easily. Just get a couple of news crews down there to film another trial.<p>The fact that they haven't makes me think it's fake.<p>I wish it were real though.
simeonf大约 13 年前
I'm just a beginning hang glider pilot - but everybody at the largest national hang gliding site (<a href="http://hanggliding.org" rel="nofollow">http://hanggliding.org</a>) calls fake. The main clue from a hang glider's perspective is that the wings absolutely don't look loaded. Assuming power source, batteries, etc all were available there's no way those flapping trailing edges are actually bearing weight by pushing against the air.<p>Yes the dream of human flight is alive - but it looks like this - <a href="http://vimeo.com/20775072" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/20775072</a>
ad80大约 13 年前
my bets...<p>1. GoPro-camera viral ad... 20% 2. funny joke... 10% 3. this is real ... 70%<p>damn... the track record of incredible, but fake videos in the recent past makes me feel skeptical, but I wish it was real<p>btw 0:57 the tracks on the grass.. look suspicious ;)
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ck2大约 13 年前
This is obviously a spoof of art.<p>I am sure since we are only 10 days away from April 1st, that will be the reveal.<p>There is simply not enough surface area, not enough motor power and not enough battery power for it to be real.
ilaksh大约 13 年前
I really wish this were real.<p>The only part that really ruins it for me is, where is the battery powering the electric motors?<p>I mean, since I am ignorant about aerodynamics and a bunch of stuff, I can suspend my disbelief about the wing actually providing enough lift, and suppose that there exist incredibly powerful motors that could operate in that way.<p>I would even like to believe that there is an ultrapowerful battery that would be able to provide enough juice for these incredible motors. But where is it?<p>Man I hope Mythbusters does this one!
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marshray大约 13 年前
So I did a little poking around:<p>I can't find any reliable mention of Jarno Smeets on the web before May 2011.<p>His blog, his domain, his Twitter and YouTube accounts all seem to have started about June of last year.<p>His Linkedin lists some plausible employment for a mechanical engineer, but comparing his userid to mine, that account hasn't been around too long either.<p>The Biomechanics professor he interviews in the video seems legit: <a href="http://www.kalons.nl/otten/" rel="nofollow">http://www.kalons.nl/otten/</a> <a href="http://www.rug.nl/corporate/nieuws/opinie/2011/opinie29_2011?lang=en" rel="nofollow">http://www.rug.nl/corporate/nieuws/opinie/2011/opinie29_2011...</a> But the professor only speaks in general terms about the requirements for flight and is never seen again in the building or the testing videos.<p>Perhaps someone could check his Facebook. Does FB say when he signed up for that?<p>None of this is completely incriminating of course but sadly it does fit the pattern of an ad agency project.
sj4nz大约 13 年前
So, no one noticed the crushed grass in the shape of tire tracks along the path of flight? Looks fake.
spoiledtechie大约 13 年前
Skeptical. Camera angles coming from the helmet are different in two shots and his head isn't moving at all. Stationary. You would think when flying, your head would be moving slightly, but his is not.<p>I also see a bit of CGI in his legs when he is shown to be flapping in the air.<p>Very Skeptical.
kenrikm大约 13 年前
I call fake, if you watch his previous test video you can see it's CG/Composited, they point the camera at the ground to swap clips with/without the real man/wings.<p>This one seems to be much better however when he lifts his legs you can see it's too smooth.
gregable大约 13 年前
Agreed with others that it's probably fake, but there I disagree that it's impossible. One of the slightly counter-intuitive things you learn when becoming a pilot is that you take off into the wind rather than with a tailwind. The wings don't care what your ground speed is when creating lift, they care about your airspeed. Given a big enough "kite" and a nice headwind and of course you can do this. Kitesurfers, kiteboarders, and hangliders do this all the time. The flapping may or may not assist, but it's certainly not doing the brunt of the work.
lemonman大约 13 年前
I initially thought it was real but after all the negative posts I have looked at the video closely. The GoPro camera take of the landing is what gives it away. Note how low the camera goes next to the ground, while we see the pilot always standing as he lands it. The flight was probably filmed with an RC and that is why see the camera go so low as it lands. But whether this is fake or not, it's irrelevant. This is a great idea and with the proper brains behind it, one should be able to make it work.
obilgic大约 13 年前
I am sorry if someone already pointed that out but i just realized how fake this is. Watch that video. <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI</a> while guy is about to take off(1:49), everyone including cameraman runs for some reason and we can not see the guy with the wings for a second. Then when we see the guy again and there is a black squaure box next to big s logo this time. You can see that video is edited at 1:52
angersock大约 13 年前
Hey, for all you people that are pulling things out from their collective asses, at least criticize from the damned website and press release:<p><a href="http://www.humanbirdwings.net/press/" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanbirdwings.net/press/</a><p>Closeup of backpack here:<p><a href="http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/IMG_3954.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/IMG...</a>
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steve-howard大约 13 年前
Hope he doesn't fly too high, lest they melt.
heeton大约 13 年前
Well, no, it's quite obviously fake... Does no-one else see that?<p>(Not for any logical reasons, but the video just <i>looks</i> fake!)
obilgic大约 13 年前
What is that trace we see on the grass?(1:00) Looks like they us some type of vehicle to pull the helmet-camera up
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savrajsingh大约 13 年前
Isn't it a little early for April fools?
andrewfelix大约 13 年前
Here is a less polished version of the thing 'flying': <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI&#38;feature=relmfu" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI&#38;feature=relmf...</a> Skip to 1.45 and tell me that is not CGI.
damian2000大约 13 年前
Has anyone pointed out that wind direction makes a hell of a lot of difference to this - if he was running into a strong headwind I'd say this is almost possible. Ever try holding onto a big kite like that in a strong wind?
damian2000大约 13 年前
Its real guys: Jamie Hyneman (Mythbusters) says so ... <a href="http://www.tested.com/articles/43440-thoughts-on-the-mechanics-of-assisted-human-flight/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tested.com/articles/43440-thoughts-on-the-mechani...</a><p>;-)
cmfoster大约 13 年前
And when will this be on kickstarter so i can donate for a promised set in return?
morrow大约 13 年前
It's quite obviously fake -- given that we are 11 days from April Fools, it's probably either an April Fools joke discovered prematurely, or set-up for a bigger one. Maybe something similar to the tale of icarus.
chj大约 13 年前
Incredible! They should try another flight to address people's doubts.
joss82大约 13 年前
For me, the biggest red flag was "done in 8 months time". Nice CG though, and additional points for flying a RC plane with a camera on it on the path of the bird.
fjabre大约 13 年前
If it's fake then you have to admit this guy can act. That was quite the performance especially when he's describing how it felt to fly for the first time.
mahmud大约 13 年前
Earlier attempt with same tech (ca 800s AD)<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbas_Ibn_Firnas" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbas_Ibn_Firnas</a>
bennyfreshness大约 13 年前
This is absurd (and I can't believe its at the top of hacker news).<p>The article insinuates this is human powered flight.<p>Any realistic attempt at a solely human powered flying machine would utilize leg power, not arms which pale in comparison in terms of power output.<p>Also seems a bit fishy a buzzing sound, much like that of an engine, starts the same time as the wing flapping.<p>Interesting engineering feat but definitely not the holy grail of man powered flight. This is Turnigy powered flight, big deal.<p>"The design is based on mechanics used in robotic prosthetics."
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lopatin大约 13 年前
I would pay so much for one of these
XLcommerce大约 13 年前
painfully fake. i'm surprised that there is even any discussion as the whether it is fake. putting aside the breaking of the laws of physics the actual cgi shots are c-grade at best. Look a the linked wired video between 0:35 - 0:40 the cgi is laughable.
joelackner大约 13 年前
incredible. i never really thought how jarring and jerky flapping wings would be...
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karussell大约 13 年前
Come on guys. Just believe it ;) it would be so superb ... I believe I can fly ...
robertwithtea大约 13 年前
obviously faked ... but i hope i'm wrong!! at least thanks for the short moment before i started doubting :-)!
pitchups大约 13 年前
Since all the videos are numbered n of 14 - how did he know <i>in advance</i> that he would need exactly 14 videos for documenting his flight?
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e03179大约 13 年前
Where was the camera operator at 0:35?
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poppin3k大约 13 年前
this has got to be a thinkmodo campaign for the sail brand used for the wings in the ad.
ookblah大约 13 年前
a lot of people in the wired comments are posting about how it's fake... huh?
epaik大约 13 年前
Wow.<p>This makes me wonder what Leonardo da Vinci could've accomplished given some base robotics technology to work off of.
ericb大约 13 年前
An April 1st reveal, anyone?
shaun_gulling大约 13 年前
Hey did you guys see the video of the guy flying on YouTube?
saturn大约 13 年前
This video is fake, that has been established beyond doubt. But CGI, even "prosumer" CGI like this, is really getting better. Even at this level, people are relying on "hints" that a CGI transition has taken place - camera looks away, is obscured, or the picture is blurry.<p>Give it a couple of years and those distracting-from-transition tricks probably won't be necessary any more. Then what?
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jsprinkles大约 13 年前
I'm skeptical. Am I the only one that noticed what appeared to be the plethora of CGI in the video?
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kromped大约 13 年前
Believe it or not.
morton_hu大约 13 年前
awesome!!
jeremyrwelch大约 13 年前
to infinity and beyond