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DOE: Pathways to Commercial Liftoff: Virtual Power Plants

77 点作者 vikrum超过 1 年前

13 条评论

leetrout超过 1 年前
Never heard of a &quot;virtual power plant&quot;. So they are aggregate power generation instead of a fixed plant... interesting naming choice.<p>&gt; Virtual power plants, generally considered a connected aggregation of distributed energy resource (DER) technologies, offer deeper integration of renewables and demand flexibility, which in turn offers more Americans cleaner and more affordable power.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.energy.gov&#x2F;lpo&#x2F;virtual-power-plants" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.energy.gov&#x2F;lpo&#x2F;virtual-power-plants</a>
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ghouse超过 1 年前
The electrical grid is designed to cover the highest load (typically the hottest hour of the year; A&#x2F;C drives peak load).<p>Most of the grid is a fixed cost. The transmission lines, distribution lines and the power plants recover enormous investments whether they are used or not.<p>The marginal costs are surprisingly low. Marginal costs of fueled (fossil or nuclear) power plants are <i>typically</i> &lt; $0.05&#x2F;kWh.<p>Peak load is what drives capacity expansion -- both in wires (transmission and distribution) but also generation. Building all of this capacity to only run for &lt; 1% of the year incurs tremendous cost.<p>By flattening the (demand) curve (through either generation or load reduction) there are tremendous savings for society.<p>However, electric utilities are natural monopolies, so investor owned utilities (contrasted with munis or coops) must substantiate investment to their regulators who in turn allow them to make a rate of return on their investments. So, these utilities only increase profit by increasing investment.
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vvpan超过 1 年前
I work for a tech startup that is focused on cooperatives and so have been learning about the cooperatives a lot lately. Cooperative have and still are playing a great role in things like energy and farming. Much of the grid in the US has been built by cooperative. But the legislation around them is outdated and also inter-cooperative support structures are lacking, for example the massive farming lending cooperatives will not lend to energy-related co-ops. Our founders moved to Colorado to start the company (which specialized in delivery cooperatives) because Colorado offers the Limited Cooperative Association entity [0]. (As an aside I have interviewed with a startup, that we are also in communications with, called React Network [1] that is specifically focused on co-cops that coordinate energy production and storage). I am honestly not sure what point I am trying to make except that I wish co-ops played a great part in the energy future.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sos.state.co.us&#x2F;pubs&#x2F;business&#x2F;news&#x2F;2012&#x2F;20120402_LCA.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sos.state.co.us&#x2F;pubs&#x2F;business&#x2F;news&#x2F;2012&#x2F;20120402...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reactnetwork.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reactnetwork.io&#x2F;</a>
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datadrivenangel超过 1 年前
I wrote a book on the topic of Virtual Power Plants! [0]<p>It&#x27;s good to see the DOE taking this seriously.<p>[0] Virtual Power : The Future of Energy Flexibility
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walr000s超过 1 年前
The best explanation of Virtual Power Plants that I&#x27;ve encountered, from Patrick McKenzie: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bitsaboutmoney.com&#x2F;archive&#x2F;markets-in-power&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bitsaboutmoney.com&#x2F;archive&#x2F;markets-in-power&#x2F;</a>
syntaxing超过 1 年前
My knowledge might be old but I’ve been told one of the biggest expense for a utility are actually Peakers (more formally known as Peaking power plants). Besides the fact they’re costly to operate compared to normal power plants (about 3X of generating cost), it takes a lot to warm up these power plants at a moment notice. VPP (as shitty as the name is) would help our infrastructure a lot, and would be a net positive for society IMO.
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photochemsyn超过 1 年前
From the report:<p>&gt; &quot;DOE uses a broad definition of VPPs (virtual power plants) that includes a variety of mechanisms for aggregating and orchestrating DERs (distributed energy resources)&quot;<p>&gt; &quot;Just as different types of traditional power plants contribute to the grid in different ways (e.g., nuclear plants provide baseload generation, and wind farms provide variable generation), so too do different configurations of VPPs.&quot;<p>Historically grid structure in the USA was broken down into baseload, load-following and peaker plants, a choice made based on the technological limitations of the power sources (coal and nuclear power could not be rapidly ramped up and down. so they were assigned baseload status, while hydro and natural gas could).<p>That all fails when you put large amounts of solar and wind on the grid, e.g. a large solar PV system might generate 200% of demand at noon, (so you divert half or more to storage for use at night). Fundamentally this means scrapping the whole concept of baseload generation, and instead focusing on storage and distribution of energy from highly variable renewable sources - which is why nuclear is difficult to integrate smoothly with renewables, it&#x27;s not very flexible. However, DOE is a very pro-nuclear agency, hence their reluctance to abandon the baseload concept.<p>I suppose VPPs are a useful abstraction for managing a wide variety of resources in one geographical area, but the reality is that replacing fossil fuels with electricity across the board will require truly massive grid infrastructure investments. This will require either steep increases in energy bills for consumers, or large tax-financed government subsidies of grid infrastructure, and possibly even nationalization of the grid.
jakewins超过 1 年前
I work on building VPPs. Two interesting problems that come up:<p>- Counter-factuals; you&#x27;re often paying someone to <i>not</i> do something, and it is really, really confusing and hard sometimes to measure whether something didn&#x27;t happen. The car didn&#x27;t charge at 4pm.. would it have charged if we hadn&#x27;t told the charger to not charge at 4pm? What if the owner planned to leave at 4.10pm anyway?<p>- Double counting &amp; profit sharing: There is a surprising amount of money on the table here and kind of a sudden frenzy - what happens when Ford auto-enrolls your new car into their VPP for their own purposes, and you sell it yourself to an aggregator like us, and your utility sells it too? And how do the proceeds get split?
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whiddershins超过 1 年前
I listened to a whole Joe Rogan podcast where a guest kept advocating for using nuclear to balance out the intermittent nature of solar and wind.<p>I could never wrap my mind around how this makes sense. Nuclear has a fixed output, it doesn’t scale up and down the way fossil fuel plants do.<p>If your nuclear capacity can cover the worst case where solar and wind aren’t producing, it can cover all cases, and the solar and wind become irrelevant.<p>Seems like the linked concept is similarly making something more complicated in the hopes that somehow makes it better.<p>Like bundling subprime mortgages.
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chongli超过 1 年前
Sounds like this opens up the possibility of a “virtual” power generation company to operate entirely by, say, leasing rooftop space (for solar cells) all over a grid and trading on the open market as a single producer rather than needing all of the individual property owners to do their own trading. Seems reasonable to me!
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mrbonner超过 1 年前
What a horrible naming convention. Is it plantless power plant?
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leymed超过 1 年前
I’m not saying it will not have any impact, but will it be at the levels mentioned in the report?<p>My consideration depends heavily on engineering of it. For example, applying this in NYC is almost impossible, and dangerous for the system. Again you can have DER aggregation at smaller levels, but hitting 20% of pick load levels seems extremely challenging.
klysm超过 1 年前
Putting the name aside, this seems like an important step forward.
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