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People are happier in a walkable neighborhood: the US community that banned cars

168 点作者 tomduncalf超过 1 年前

33 条评论

nologic01超过 1 年前
&gt; car-free neighborhood built from scratch<p>I am not sure the &quot;building from scratch&quot; approach can really move the needle in terms of livable and sustainable urban environments. Like, how many centuries before natural replacement rates would achieve a transition?<p>The key challenge much of the world is facing (certainly the most polluting part of the world) is to rehabilitate the vast numbers of existing housing stock, and reinvent better uses of the existing urban layouts as people are <i>stuck</i> with them.<p>An exception where such green-field ideas could have impact would be in the context of developing world urbanization (i.e., how not to do the same mistakes others did) but there other considerations (cost) enter the discussion.
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anonyfox超过 1 年前
from a european perspective: thats so blatantly obvious, I am kinda baffled that this is even news :-(<p>isn&#x27;t the &quot;third place&quot; concept not widely known&#x2F;accepted? (1st place: work, 2nd place: home, 3rd place: communal spaces) The availability&#x2F;quality of these 3rd places _directly_ correlates with QoL&#x2F;happiness of people. I would get severe depression when I only swap between home&#x2F;work&#x2F;car, thats not a life, thats surviving, in isolation.
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AmpsterMan超过 1 年前
As we discuss this topic, can we keep a few things in mind?<p>Density does not mean Manhattan levels of density. Manhattan has 28,000&#x2F;km^2, Atlanta has 3,500&#x2F;km^2. That&#x27;s an order of magnitude difference.<p>I mean this with all of the respect I can muster. If your first thought is &quot;I prefer to live in a rural space where my nearest neighbor is half a kilometer away&quot; Congratulations. You live in a RURAL place, this does not apply to you. In fact, you should be cheering for denser living spaces. It is not the five-over-ones that are taking over the precious rural landscapes, but the endless sea of concrete and asphalt that is suburban living.<p>To non-North Americans. The standard U.S. and Canada experience of &quot;living&quot; in a city, is you live in a quarter acre of land in a winding suburb where it&#x27;s at least half a kilometer to get out of your neighborhood onto the local collector. It&#x27;s going to take you at least another half kilometer to make it to the arterial that takes you to the giant box store that has a bunch of stuff you need.<p>It is impossible for a plurality of people in North America to get the basic necessities without a car, let alone any other niceties.
angarg12超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m from a Spanish city that for the last few years has invested heavily in infrastructure. One of the most controversial decisions was to pedestrianize big chunks of the old town. Despite concerns about traffic, I have yet to meet a single person who doesn&#x27;t love the idea. What used to be mazes of roads and cars are now public spaces, filled with parks, art installations or events. People can walk or cycle safely, and bars and cafes have large terraces for people to sit. More cities should give this a try.
nunez超过 1 年前
The mission is cool, and I definitely agree with the assertion in the title.<p>We lived in the suburbs of Houston for two years, and it was terrible. Nothing was walkable. The community had a walking path around a drainage reservoir, but walking to a business? lol, I hope you have two hours to spare.<p>Roads were HUGE and empty but had low speed limits, so most folks sped and drove dangerously. By dangerously, I mean &quot;driving 20+ above limit with one hand on the 12 and scrolling TikTok on the other&quot;.<p>Nothing but chain restaurants for miles, with some exceptions here and there.<p>Basically zero sense of community unless you had kids or went to church. Meetup events? social sports leagues? Events around town? lol.<p>We moved into Houston proper this year and it&#x27;s been unbelievably refreshing. I&#x27;m typing this from a bar that&#x27;s five mins away walking distance. I can run and ride my bike to places that are interesting. Shit, I can run and ride my bike without worrying about a distracted driver mowing me over. There&#x27;s stuff to do here. There are events for everybody. It&#x27;s great.<p>I do take issue with one statement:<p>&gt; “We look back nostalgically at college, because it’s the only time most people have lived in a walkable neighborhood.&quot;<p>Come on, dudes. The reason why people opine for their college years is because they were younger, didn&#x27;t have to work, didn&#x27;t have families and could spend most of their time having fun.
nonameiguess超过 1 年前
I really don&#x27;t see how this is necessary. I&#x27;m in what I would consider a walkable neighborhood right now. In fact, I walk all the time. The biggest reason I still have a car, that I almost never use, is going to medical appointments. Nothing can ever make that walkable when they&#x27;re 20 miles away and I have to get there during business hours. Before working from home, it was needing to drive to the office, which you can do away with by having metroplex-wide public transit that spans an entire city and its major suburbs. There isn&#x27;t shit you can do at the neighborhood level.<p>Getting rid of cars is not necessary. New York City is probably the most walkable city in the United States and it&#x27;s full of cars. But the sidewalks are enormous, consistently open, construction projects are required to provide routes for pedestrians. I grew up in a place in Southern California that was pretty walkable, but most of Southern California is definitely not. The biggest difference wasn&#x27;t whether or not cars existed. Aside from the sidewalks, it&#x27;s more that you need to limit the number of arterial roads, their size, and the blocks a vehicle can expect to traverse before hitting a stop. Aside from everything being so far away, the biggest factors preventing people from just going for leisurely strolls without a specific destination is the danger posed by roads that take a long time to get across and cars doing highway speeds on those roads. It worked out where I grew up, even though it was a suburb, because the roads were small, we weren&#x27;t near any highways, plus I lived on an actual cul de sac, but the end of the road only blocked cars from going further, not pedestrians.
purpleblue超过 1 年前
I spent a month in downtown major city this summer and I loved it. I could walk to work, walk my kids to summer camp, we all took the subway and walked sometimes back home. They loved it, and I loved it, despite being on a crowded subway or street car. Just the sheer human interaction and people watching made it so much more enjoyable than spending our time in a car isolated from the rest of the world. Yes, I wasn&#x27;t accustomed to the noise and the ambulance and police sirens, but overall it was amazing and will try to do it next summer as well.
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ipython超过 1 年前
I was curious to see what this looks like, so I clicked the link.<p>All of the pictures in the article totally tell me a different story: it looks like a generic concrete wasteland. The hero picture has an ugly chain link fence and what looks like a parking lot in the foreground. The picture of the interior of the model apartment is nothing more than an arty shot of a door (?)<p>I&#x27;ll be honest, it looks like a post-apocalyptic brutalist concrete jungle to me. I wanted to like it, but there&#x27;s no way I would live in this place.
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newsclues超过 1 年前
I don’t drive but I don’t want to live in a city that just bans cars.<p>I want to live in a city built that people choose not to drive because the other options are better, faster and more convenient.<p>Walkable cities need to outcompete the status quo!
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JSavageOne超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m a huge fan of walkable cities (generally the norm outside the U.S) but the article doesn&#x27;t actually any good pictures of the neighborhood, and the few pictures look terrible.
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ProcNetDev超过 1 年前
The framing of this story is so weird (and I think meant to trigger conspiracy nuts.)<p>The story of culdesac is about parking not about banning mobility!<p>Parking is insanely expensive to build. The only way the city would let them not build parking was for residents to agree to not own cars. (I think this is a clear 14th amendment violation but thats just me.)<p>Read Henry Garbar&#x27;s new book for the full story on parking: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2023&#x2F;05&#x2F;09&#x2F;1174962751&#x2F;paved-paradise-examines-how-parking-has-changed-the-american-landscape" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2023&#x2F;05&#x2F;09&#x2F;1174962751&#x2F;paved-paradise-exa...</a>
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didgeoridoo超过 1 年前
At 170M development cost for 1,000 residents, a break-even point of $170k per resident seems quite high for Phoenix. This unfortunately looks like a luxury product. Hopefully future costs come way down as they figure out the formula and can make this accessible to more people, as it’s definitely a much more human-scale, healthy, and pleasant way to live.
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slily超过 1 年前
Living in New York City, the most walkable city in the US I believe, was the unhappiest I&#x27;ve been in my life, and I know plenty of others who feel the same way. So, there&#x27;s that.
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bfeynman超过 1 年前
truly dystopian to live in a VC backed neighborhood where you don&#x27;t own anything... Maybe if you were recent graduate for a few years. The whole idea of not needing a car is also not even that exciting. You don&#x27;t exist in a vacuum in your tiny neighborhood in a larger city, you still probably need to get to work, US does not build good enough public transportation especially in these less dense cities. If you want to get out anywhere else in city or leave you&#x27;d probably want or need a car. Most people who live in NYC live close to people and surprise also do not need cars.
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robertlagrant超过 1 年前
&gt; his enthusiasm for car-free living was born, he said, from living and traveling in countries such as Hungary, Japan and South Africa<p>I don&#x27;t know about Hungary or Japan, but South Africa has extremely high car usage. Unless he lived in a very expensive area where you can also work (e.g. Melrose Arch or Parkhurst).
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numbers_guy超过 1 年前
Culture and attitude are a billion times more important than city planning when it comes to happy communities. Anyone who has traveled can tell you this. According to all these stupid blog articles from Americans, I have lived in 7 different heavens, but the reality I experienced was markedly different.<p>Just because people live densely packed together does not mean that they will decide to strike up a conversation and get to know each other. It does not mean that there will be five people lending a hand when you need help. Quite the opposite. Americans take for granted their culture, which in these aspects is better than what you will find in many European cities.<p>Actually thinking about it, packing people densely together might even foster a culture that is more insular, cold and hostile than what the typical American is accustomed to.
convolvatron超过 1 年前
I live off a street that put up barriers during covid to radically slow down car traffic, and its stayed that way. People still can get cars in and out to park, and delivery vans, contractors and trash pickup all still work fine. But no one uses that street as a throughway because it just takes too long.<p>Because that street is filled with people jogging, taking sunset walks, and children playing. People sitting on chairs in the shade talking.<p>We&#x27;re supposed to reject this because we need to support the freedom for people to barrel down residential roads.
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amitkgupta84超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m not sure how this article would be any different if Culdesac had written their own &quot;journalistic&quot; article about itself and paid The Guardian to publish it.
bobsmith432超过 1 年前
Walkable cities and public transportation based cities sound good but require you to trust the others on those streets and vehicles and you usually can&#x27;t at all if a city is super bad and the city itself has no intentions of fixing this. This is the perspective of an Alabamian who was blown away when an Australian I knew could just walk to a store to get stuff.
ThinkBeat超过 1 年前
This seems extremely premature.<p>According to the article so far 36 people live there. out of the expected 1.000 people who will reside there when the development is finished in 2025<p>I think you should wait till everyone has moved in, and then give it a year or two, and then write an article about how people are much happier there.<p>I have confidence that results probably would not change that much since the development is custom built and hyped as a car-free place to live.<p>It will attract people who are looking for that and you would think they would be happy.<p>However, you cannot use this as an argument that people in general would be happier with such changes, since you start out with a highly biased sample.<p>I have nothing against walkable neighborhoods. It is nice Personally, I have zero desire to live Phoenix Arizona without a car. I have lived there, and it gets insanely hot during the summer.<p>(a side note: Arizona already has major trouble getting enough water for everyone who lives there already. I dont think expanding the population is sustainable idea)
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jononomo超过 1 年前
This is why I prefer the East Coast of the US to the West Coast -- many cities on the East Coast matured before the dominance of the automobile, which makes them slightly more walkable. The West Coast is just car culture down to it&#x27;s bones.<p>Even on the East Coast, however, people will drive 50 MPH down tree-lined residential streets, such as the one I currently live on in Lancaster, PA, and there are plenty of people here who drive massive pickup trucks that never seem to be picking up anything.
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irrational超过 1 年前
Are the people that live in walkable neighborhoods wealthier than the average US citizen? Maybe it’s not the neighborhood but the freedom from financial stress.
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EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK超过 1 年前
Phoenix? out of places, Phoenix? Walkable in 110 degrees? As I remember Phoenix, you could drive 10 miles and not meet a single walker on the street.
cbeach超过 1 年前
Seems to be plenty of support for this kind of technocratic authoritarianism on Hacker News, based on the comment voting.<p>Is there an alternative venue similar to HN where people who value freedom and individual liberty can discuss topics like this without getting demoted and silenced?
Racing0461超过 1 年前
Culdesac seems like just an apartment complex. Of course i&#x27;m happy too being able to walk from my bedroom to the kitchen instead of taking the car.<p>What happens when someone needs to go get groceries at a walmart? Or go to a la fitness? (i&#x27;m using brand names on purpose instead of grocery or gym since a &quot;local bodega&quot; that could be able to fit in the complex would unlikely have what i need). Merely having a checkbox saying that thing exists within the 15 min radius isn&#x27;t enough.<p>tbh i just don&#x27;t see high quality of life coupled with car-free happening in the USA due to how big it is.
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mym1990超过 1 年前
This seems plausible to me, but the principle holds here that correlation is not causation.<p>&quot;People are happier and healthier, and even wealthier when they’re living in a walkable neighborhood.&quot;<p>From my experience(so sample size 1), walkable neighborhoods in the US are usually not the affordable ones.<p>Banning cars seems like a bad design...just design cities where cars are de-incentivized(small lanes, less parking, high fees, special permits, whatever) and provide <i>some</i> infrastructure for those that really need them.
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platz超过 1 年前
How do Emergency Services operate in such a city?<p>How do you make it to the hospital if you can&#x27;t ride a bike in your current condition?
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hprotagonist超过 1 年前
this is hardly the first.<p>i know of a cohousing nonprofit that did this in central MA in 2007: big parking lot down at the end of the drive, then it’s about 35 houses with footpaths and green space and common areas and whatnot all built together; motor vehicles are not permitted.<p>it’s a nice place! the biggest thing i notice is that there are a few packs of kids running around all the time, and nobody has to worry about anyone getting hit by a car.
lasermike026超过 1 年前
I agree 1000%. The sooner we ditch cars the better. We can do it. Most Americans don&#x27;t want to do but they don&#x27;t know what is good for them.
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Eumenes超过 1 年前
Keep an eye on Culdesac&#x27;s career page - I expect positions to be posted in the near future with terms such as: spark, data warehouse, redshift, AI&#x2F;ML, etc. This experiment will come with mass data mining and analysis to &quot;better serve&quot; its residents. HARD PASS on living in tech corporate controlled &quot;neighborhoods&quot;.
asdajksah2123超过 1 年前
The car free idea is great, but this looks like it&#x27;s inevitably gonna turn into a dystopian nightmare since it&#x27;s actually cut off from the rest of the city.<p>The great thing about good cities is that they make it easy to meet people, but they&#x27;re also decently large so there are enough sub communities that you aren&#x27;t forced to conform entirely because you might otherwise get kicked out of the only community available to you. This is a village problem (although villages being far less dense make it easier to hide the non conformist stuff you might be up to).<p>This development combines the worst of both worlds. It&#x27;s too small and cut off from the rest of Phoenix to give residents access to a large set of sub communities, and it&#x27;s too dense to keep your stuff to yourself.
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xnx超过 1 年前
Ironically, self-driving cars are probably the most realistic route to walkable neighborhoods. Self-driving cars are much better road citizens (obeying traffic laws and driving courteously) and don&#x27;t require any of the parking that human-driving cars do. If the self-driving cars become widespread for human transportation and deliveries, we will be shocked at the amount of free space have that can be put to better use.
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cbeach超过 1 年前
I wish all anti-motorist activists could go live in this utopian city and be happy, as opposed to lobbying for measures that make my family life more difficult.<p>* My parents live 50 miles away, impossible to reach to on public transport with kids and related paraphernalia<p>* My young kids are in different school&#x2F;childcare settings requiring us to drive<p>* We do regular large supermarket&#x2F;DIY shops that cannot be taken on public transport<p>* We explore different rural and coastal areas with our kids that aren&#x27;t practically reachable by public transport.<p>In the UK, anti-motorist lobbyists have been successful in pushing for punitive measures (e.g. roadblocks AKA &quot;LTN&quot;, road narrowing, modal filters, road closures, mass-surveillance-based road charging AKA &quot;ULEZ&quot;, absurd blanket 20mph speed limits on inappropriate roads) and we need to push back.<p>Reject propaganda pushed by The Guardian and similar metro-leftie publications. It&#x27;s deeply unrepresentative and manipulative.