Tell HN: Wise froze $40k+ in funds for 10 days and counting

156 点作者 ritzaco超过 1 年前

So I know there are a lot of stories like this and this is not the first or the last one, but Wise, my bank, froze all our main operational bank accounts last Monday. They want proof of 'the source of my funds'. I have been a client with them for over three years but apparently that does not count for anything.I've done everything they want but their verification team is "busy" and needs "5 working days" to check what I submitted. That was 10 days ago - I'm not sure how many days per week they regard as working days.Luckily, because I have heard of Wise, Stripe, etc doing this on a regular basis I very strictly transfer any excess funds to a real brick-and-mortar bank, but this could easily have caused huge cashflow problems if I hadn't. As it is, it's pretty hard to set up an alternative, pay contractors etc etc, but I figured it's a good reminder for others who might be going "Surely if I don't do anything wrong they won't do anything bad to me right?"Some of the other stories have been from people who turned out to be doing things - e.g. cryptocurrency trading - where I can kind of see why their finance providers would maybe get suspicious of illegal activity. We (Ritza) just offer technical writing services, which means we get paid by a few customers around the world every month and pay out contractors also around the world. We're headquartered in the Netherlands, not Cayman Islands or Mauritius or anything dodgy, and we pay out to people mainly in South Africa.Posting as a warning to others, but also if you know of any alternatives to Wise that serve EU businesses I am all ears. I tried Revolut Business and Airwallex and got a generic "We can't offer you services at this time and you can't appeal and we can't tell you why" rejection from both of them. I would love to know if I'm on some kind of list and how I got there if I am.https://x.com/sixhobbits/status/1714531389326979112?s=20https://x.com/sixhobbits/status/1713084385585504359

35 条评论

superzamp超过 1 年前

The current AML/CTF regulations frameworks can only lead to extremely opaque implementations and end-user experiences. For that reason alone, it makes sense to keep the bulk of your money in a place (meaning, a mainstreet financial institution) where you'll be able to get in touch with a real human and have proper ways of recourse should your account be the unfortunate target of overzealous fraud-screening algorithms. You don't want a FAANG-like random termination account procedures with anything related to your money, which is unfortunately the experience that many new-gen finance apps are delivering right now.

评论 #37926229 未加载

评论 #37959575 未加载

ritzaco超过 1 年前

And to add- They do not offer live chat at the moment because they are too busy.- The phone waiting times are up to 30 minutes. I've called them many times and they are completely unable to do anything as they are the 'support' team and it all depends on the 'verification' team.- They respond to emails with canned responses, usually 2-3 days- They respond on Twitter in public and by DM. In public, they make it sound like they really care and ask to DM. If you DM, you get an AI bot that might eventually put you through to an agent if you find the correct way through the decision tree. Then the agent will tell you that they are working as fast as they can and you should wait another 10 working days and see what happens.

评论 #37926328 未加载

评论 #37938983 未加载

jacquesm超过 1 年前

Someone suggested I get a Wise account a short while ago because it's cheaper than bank transfers. But I've never seen any kind of 'account freezing' from my bank that wasn't to protect me (for instance: by doing wire transfers from three different continents inside of 24 hours). But I've had trouble with just about any other PSP/money transmitter service in one form or another and I'm very wary of giving them access to my accounts and/or using them for significant transfers.I don't actually care all that much about the transaction fees, but I really care about my payments reaching their destination and the fact that my reputation is tied into my ability to pay people agreed upon amounts in time for work performed. On their end they rely on me and these middlemen are welcome to their cut but in return they should do what they promise. Wise looks particularly bad here because they overran their self imposed deadline, which is too long any way. Payments in flight should be dealt with inside of 24 hours, you either forward the money to the destination or you refund to the originator so that they can pursue other ways to pay. Because otherwise you are going to cause massive problems, both for the originator and the recipient.The only excuse would be a court order to seize the money. Other than that I can't see any reason why a money transmitter would seize payments unless it is inbound credit card payments where they are afraid of chargebacks. But that should be a contractually agreed upon hold-back, not something capricious.

评论 #37933900 未加载

fancythat超过 1 年前

I don't want to sound negative, but Wise is working for most people and even for myself almost all the time.The fact that you are being rejected by Revolut and Airwallex simply means that there is something fundamentally wrong on how you do your money transfers. I am not saying you are doing something criminal, but rather that your methods are raising alarms all over their systems.Regarding your funds, Wise is supervised by FCA, Financial Conduct Authority in the UK, and a lot of the times, writing email to them might get things started.Now, for those that are saying that Wise is not a bank and therefore the funds are not secured, hear me out:Money transfer services need to have 100% of your money covered in cash, unless you opt-in on interest earnings and similar additional products, but even though those are also protected in some way (check Wise faq).Wise being a large company, has multiple bank accounts spread around the world, meaning that they are probably more resilient to the negative events than even some larger banks in your country.Of course, be careful with your money, never trust anyone 100%, always spread your risks, but generally speaking, Wise and similar services are the next best thing to hopping on the plane and opening bank account in different countries.Source: working in Fintech atm

评论 #37952164 未加载

agilob超过 1 年前

They did the same to me once, they wanted an explanation what my surname means, my surname and date of a workshop where included in the transfer reference. They froze it and refused to release it for a few weeks. How do I explain what my surname means, it's literally my surname, they have it in sender details too? Every time I tried to explain it, my email history got picked up by somebody else, who didn't read the past emails and asked me the same stupid question again and again. Their CS never picked up the phone, I literally spent whole working day waiting during "busy hours". They responded to my email with 2-4 days delayed. I eventually told them to fuck off and refund the money. To prove a point I made exactly the same transfer using Revolut and recipient had the money next working day at 8am.

评论 #37952643 未加载

评论 #37926433 未加载

jan_g超过 1 年前

I know this won't help you much, but as a point of reference. Last year they've blocked my account as well and wanted some documentation/proofs for their verification team. Which I provided the same day, but then it took nearly 4 weeks to clear. Like you, I've asked them for feedback, but the response was the usual "The verification team is busy".

评论 #37926609 未加载

AdamN超过 1 年前

I loved Wise when I first moved to Berlin from Seattle. After a few months though I just got used to Deutsche Bank and although their site is about a decade (or more!) behind Chase, I've discovered that being with a real bank is better in most ways. I just wish there was a modern, full service bank in Berlin - I would switch to that if it existed.

评论 #37926310 未加载

评论 #37926348 未加载

评论 #37927680 未加载

评论 #37942100 未加载

csomar超过 1 年前

First, Wise is not your bank. It's a dodgy money-transmitter business.Second, never keep a balance in Wise. Just use it for transfers. It's good for US/EU since transfers are close to instant. If they are instant in South Africa, you should be able to make a transfer using SEPA, then to a South African bank. Rinse and repeat so you don't get $40k stuck.One thing I noticed about these fintech companies is that they won't ban you if you don't keep a balance. I had lots of troubles with freezing funds with other fintechs (ie: PayPal, Skrill, etc..) but that stopped once I stopped having a balance with them. That is interesting, because my flow with them now is "$xxx received, $xxx sent". Which should, theoretically, trigger a money laundering alert.I am biased to say, at this point, that they are maliciously freezing money but I do not have any proof of that at the moment.

评论 #37939920 未加载

评论 #37938559 未加载

threeseed超过 1 年前

> we get paid by a few customers around the world every month and pay out contractors also around the worldWhich would look exactly like money laundering, tax evasion, terrorism financing etc especially if those customers/contractors are based in questionable countries.So not surprised you've triggered their AML/KYC checks.

评论 #37926503 未加载

评论 #37926462 未加载

helsinkiandrew超过 1 年前

> but Wise, my bankI also use Wise for my "banking services", but remember that Wise is NOT a bank, it's not regulated or insured as one.For alternatives - doing cross border service is too much adminstration and legal bother for most of the new online services - try an old fashioned bank that has an international presence. At worst you may have to visit an office (from the Netherlands you could make the trip in a day for less than €100), but the service will be an order of magnitude greater.

评论 #37926585 未加载

评论 #37960013 未加载

SXX超过 1 年前

Hope your problem will be resolved soon. For our company AML-check was usually done within a week and caused by fact that our game publisher that money come from was based in Dubai.But if for some reason it take more than 2 weeks to unfreeze your account and they are not responding make sure to make complain with FCA. As Wise HQ located in UK it's the best way to deal with them:<a href="https://www.fca.org.uk/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.fca.org.uk/</a>Yeah I personally only know that compaining to FCA does indeed work for consumers, but I pretty certain it will for business account too. UK regulators also usually reply fast enough.

mhaberl超过 1 年前

This morning, my accountant warned me that Wise has frozen the funds of many of their clients, mostly freelance software developers, and they've been blocked for weeks now. This freelancers are not related in any way (except having the same accountant).

评论 #37926475 未加载

jokethrowaway超过 1 年前

I moved hundreds of k with wise to buy a house and went through the same bullshit. Took around a week.Then the bank which received the money from wise wanted the same and it took a month and they even charged me 500€ for the verification.Don't blame wise, blame your shitty governments and the shitty regulations.They're just covering their asses from the government.I also "bank" with Revolut and Airwallex. Revolut and Airwallex never asked me anything even on ~100k.Airwallex is a business account though.I'm sure it's pretty random. Anecdotally, I've heard of people getting locked out of Revolut / Airwallex.If you want better service you probably need to go to some bank in a blacklisted country without all these anti money laundering BS regulationsBanks in the Uk have always been pretty lax in my experience, way better experience compared to europe (and also much better deals / interest rates)

ThePowerOfFuet超过 1 年前

>Wise, my bankWise is not licensed as a bank, but rather a payment institution (or the local equivalent).<a href="https://wise.com/help/articles/2932693/how-is-wise-regulated-in-each-countryregion" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://wise.com/help/articles/2932693/how-is-wise-regulated...</a>This affects your rights.>We're headquartered in the NetherlandsI recommend Bunq, which _is_ a bank:<a href="https://www.bunq.com/business" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.bunq.com/business</a>>I tried Revolut Business and Airwallex and got a generic "We can't offer you services at this time and you can't appeal and we can't tell you why" rejection from both of themThis is not a good sign. Who are your company's directors? Are any considered politically-exposed persons?

评论 #37926668 未加载

评论 #37927103 未加载

15457345234超过 1 年前

> Wise, my bank<a href="https://wise.com/us/blog/wise-as-bank-account" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://wise.com/us/blog/wise-as-bank-account</a>"Wise is not a bank"Keep money in banks.

评论 #37935071 未加载

istoselidas超过 1 年前

I used Wise for five years as a freelance developer. Last year, they suddenly blocked my account. At that time, my only client was a company listed in the S&P 500, who sent my salary through Wise. When Wise asked for proof of my contract, I sent them the documents. However, they still blocked my account without telling me why. They gave me my money back after seven days, but my account remained blocked without explanations.

trilbyglens超过 1 年前

Sadly most regular banks will hose you on exchange rates and fees. I work for a company in the US but live in Europe. I've experimented with many ways of moving money and still the best by far is wise. I've tried a dollar account at my bank here but the fees and exchange rates were trash, not to mention that it's abysmally slow to move money that way. Wise has been great for me so far, but I'm only using it as a conduit from my us bank to my euro one.

评论 #37926474 未加载

okaleniuk超过 1 年前

Brick-and-mortar is not a guarantee either. I've got my account frozen by a Hungarian bank in 2015 due to "suspicious activity". I consulted my lawyer, apparently that had no legal grounds, with this information I came to the nearest branch, they unfroze the assets immediately, and I withdrew everything.In 2022 the bank was proclaimed an international sponsor of war.

评论 #37961843 未加载

kaetemi超过 1 年前

My business Wise card numbers mysteriously vanished a couple weeks ago without notification. Their exchange services are convenient, but I wouldn't keep any significant cash with them.

rsynnott超过 1 年前

> Posting as a warning to others, but also if you know of any alternatives to Wise that serve EU businesses I am all ears.I mean, it depends what you're trying to do, but if you are a company which wants somewhere to put its money, using a _bank_ is traditional. There are lots of banks in the Netherlands.

评论 #37926848 未加载

more_corn超过 1 年前

Quickbooks froze one of mine for 90. Called a dozen times, my accountant called the same number of times, you can’t even talk to their fraud department. They won’t tell you what info they need to verify or what is wrong. I will never use any Intuit product ever again.

koevet超过 1 年前

Are you a PEP (Politically Exposed Person) or are you married or somehow officially connected to one?

评论 #37926481 未加载

评论 #37926392 未加载

keiferski超过 1 年前

I had weird buggy issues with Wise when setting up an account, which really turned me off. I ended up using Payoneer instead, which so far has worked reasonably well. They seem to ask for more data on a regular basis but respond quickly once it’s submitted.

Leftium超过 1 年前

What a shame... I guess I should reconsider using Wise as my main bank-like service.Wise has one of the best (online) interfaces for a bank-like service. Clean, fast, and simple.A few days ago they suddenly told me my account numbers were changing[1]. The old ones would stop working less than 3 weeks later. And the new bank account numbers don't work at all the places I am use the old numbers (Bank of America credit card payments and Vanguard).Now this.[1]: <a href="https://wise.com/help/articles/2G69Jf6EEvf5TvYSlA8XjQ/were-changing-your-usd-account-details" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://wise.com/help/articles/2G69Jf6EEvf5TvYSlA8XjQ/were-c...</a>

nickfromseattle超过 1 年前

I've run a consulting business for the last 5 years and use online banks to pay team members, but not receive client payments.- Banned from PayPal, requires submitting mail from an address I no longer live at (not even the same continent anymore)- Restricted on Payoneer because my company name (essentially my name) is different than the info I registered with (a cool brand). Fortunately I can still pay inbound requests, but I cannot send outbound payments without an originating request.- Now currently using Wise and loving it. Hoping I don't get banned.I guess there is always Revolut?Or the next "We're not Wise! We're better" startup?

评论 #37940435 未加载

SergeAx超过 1 年前

I consider all internet neobanks totally unreliable and never trust them with large sums. However, Wise could be quite useful in some cases. For example, last year I needed to rescue my money from Turkish bank. My contractee send it there by mistake, their accounting didn't receive my request to use another bank.Turkish bank was not providing an ability to just SWIFT money to another country. But I was able to convert to Turkish lira, then transfer it to Wise lira account,convert again and send SWIFT to my bank. Despite double conversion and three transfer fees I lost less than 2.5% of total amount. The alternative was to fly to Turkey and bring back the cash (including airport red corridor fuss).Needless to say, I did this transfer in several batches with several days in-between. I would never trust internet neobank with more than $5000 equivalent.

boudin超过 1 年前

It's important to remember that Wise is not a bank, they say so themselves: <a href="https://wise.com/us/blog/wise-as-bank-account" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://wise.com/us/blog/wise-as-bank-account</a>It doesn't come with the same regulation and guarantees as a bank. It's a financial service and using them as a bank is quite risky in my opinion.

jstanley超过 1 年前

"First they came for the cryptocurrency traders..."

gumballindie超过 1 年前

> We're headquartered in the Netherlands, not Cayman Islands or MauritiusI love how the author makes it sound as if a company in the Netherlands simply cant do “dodgy” stuff by default - regardless of wether that country is a main drug transit hub - unlike those other countries.To be fair to me the operation does sound like a potential money laundering scheme, particularity in the flourishing dutch drug and weapon smuggling trade. I am certain op is not doing it but Wise has to check his account regardless of his perceived privilege.Hope it gets cleared out soon though as these types of checks are real pita when you need cashflow. If and when they make them they should be extremely prompt or else i’d move to a different bank.

评论 #37934136 未加载

colesantiago超过 1 年前

This is very unfortunate but it is the cost of being in a regulated system, hopefully Wise can resolve this ASAP.> Some of the other stories have been from people who turned out to be doing things - e.g. cryptocurrency trading - where I can kind of see why their finance providers would maybe get suspicious of illegal activity.As long as you're not involved in any crypto activity is not involved then this shouldn't be an issue, perhaps it is some intern at Wise who accidentally done this mess which would be bad.I would say contacting Wise about this would be the next steps to resolving this, I am sure they will swiftly get this resolved.

Gys超过 1 年前

> I tried Revolut Business and Airwallex and got a generic "We can't offer you services at this time and you can't appeal and we can't tell you why" rejection from both of themI just opened a Revolut Business account for a fairly complicated (to them) structure, a Dutch CV with several partners and managed by a company. Took some back and forth with documents and chat sessions, but is done now.So I wonder what triggered a downright 'no' in your case. Might also explain what the problem is with Wise.

m00dy超过 1 年前

Bitcoin fixes this kind of problem. As you mentioned, those are bank accounts that you don't own. Those are NOT yours.

评论 #37926487 未加载

评论 #37926599 未加载

评论 #37927354 未加载

评论 #37926452 未加载

Varqu超过 1 年前

Protip:If you have a low volume of high amount transactions, skip the fancy Fintech (Mafia) companies and just use a good old bank account.The international wire transfer fee is on par or sometimes even lower than Stripe transaction fee and once the money is transferred, it's yours.

评论 #37932034 未加载

评论 #37926551 未加载

aprdm超过 1 年前

Completely unrelated and will get flagged/downvoted - but x.com is such a weird domain, I don't know how people are still around on Twitter still ...

mooreds超过 1 年前

We are (very happy) Ritza clients. Bummer to hear this is happening to them.